youngestson Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 22 hours ago, steve09ru said: Can we rename this thread to just call out all statues being removed since it’s gotten to the point of non confederacy. We’ve added Grant, Key and Roosevelt statues. Pulled down a Grant statue?????? So I checked it out, and.. seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Surprised it lasted this long..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) ^^Just playing Devil's advocate here, but Andrew Jackson, while being a terrible person, was still a president. Not every statue of him has to signify allegiance to confederate ideals... And I am outright surprised by pulling down the Roosevelt statue. Whats the meaning behind that? Edited June 23, 2020 by Koala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) [EDIT: Sorry, I saw that PCS already posted this. I was going to take it down, but it's worth seeing twice!] Baton Rouge School Board debates renaming Robert E. Lee High School. Board member Connie Bernard suggests people opposing the name read their history or learn more about Lee. This guy wasn’t having it: Edited June 23, 2020 by Dan T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 hours ago, youngestson said: Pulled down a Grant statue?????? So I checked it out, and.. seriously? you had to know this movement would eventually jump the shark. I'm 100% on board with tearing down the confederacy, and most of America is climbing on the band wagon now, but radical movements are like the hipsters of the political world. The moment something becomes too popular they move on to something else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 9 hours ago, stoshuaj said: 2. Stone Mtn? Can’t just pull that over w a towstrap. Wth to do w that thing, dynamite? But, it’s also the most visited attraction (I think I read/heard that somewhere) in Ga, and that = big $$ to the state. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 49 minutes ago, Koala said: ^^Just playing Devil's advocate here, but Andrew Jackson, while being a terrible person, was still a president. Not every statue of him has to signify allegiance to confederate ideals... And I am outright surprised by pulling down the Roosevelt statue. Whats the meaning behind that? Roosevelt statue at museum of natural history has a Native American and am African leading the horse Teddy is riding on either side. It's the subservience depicted rather than TR in specific that caused offense I believe, and I can see why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 ^^^ Off topic, but looking at that artillery video, that whole process seems so outdated in the modern era. We have lasers that can shoot down a missile from miles away, smart bombs that travel a thousand miles and go through the window of a bad guy's living room... and here are six guys needed to load and fire that thing. And the firing mechanism is a guy pulling a rope. It's like nothing's changed from the cannon crews in the Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, youngestson said: Pulled down a Grant statue?????? So I checked it out, and.. seriously? Why not? He have any ties to San Francisco? Grant was a ****ty general and a ****ty President. Dude presided over a incredibly corrupt administration. Take him and Jackson off the $50 n $20 taboot. There are people far more deserving. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, clietas said: Why not? He have any ties to San Francisco? Grant was a ****ty general and a ****ty President. Dude presided over a incredibly corrupt administration. Take him and Jackson off the $50 n $20 taboot. There are people far more deserving. He just crushed the confederacy, ended slavery by force, and then fought the KKK in the aftermath. You say there are people more deserving... maybe, but in terms of major achievements in US history, that list is really damn short. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) I got no problem tearing down Confederate statues. Also got no problem tearing down others. But if one is down for peeling back the onions of American History, you will find that there will be few statues standing. Few buildings left. Few streets left. Our history is bloody. The good thing that may come of this, is the realization of just how bloody it is. Edited June 23, 2020 by Mr. Sinister 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Destino said: He just crushed the confederacy, The Confederacy never stood a chance. We didn't even have a universal track guage down here for trains. 🤦♂️ North was vastly superior on all fronts. 28 minutes ago, Destino said: ended slavery by force, On Lincolns orders no? 28 minutes ago, Destino said: and then fought the KKK in the aftermath. Yeah with like 5 convictions. Then it was back to status quo Jim Crow in South Carolina. 30 minutes ago, Destino said: You say there are people more deserving... maybe, but in terms of major achievements in US history, that list is really damn short. I agree its slim Pickens. Hey how about a statue of actor Slim Pickens? US Grants administration was filled with political scandal after scandal. His administration was, like Andrew Jacksons, not so super nice in the "relocation" of Native Americans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I'm in the camp not understanding the Grant one at this point. I prefer we start with everything confederate related while also focusing on actual policy changes to get rid of systemic racism the best we can. Then maybe turn attention to other statues. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) You’re right @clietas the civil war was a cake walk. The whole war was over in a week. Easiest war the US ever fought. How many died again? 620,000. You're also right that Lincoln gave the orders. it's why we celebrate him. Orders don’t magically make things spring into existence though. Grant had to make it a reality, and that's exactly what he did. 5 convictions? Grant fought the KKK even going as far as declaring martial law in some areas where the KKK terrorists were most active. There's no question that he fought them during his time as President. White supremacy evolves however, and persists, and certainly remained in the US government. After what was essentially open war on black Americans by the clan was met by too heavy a resistance (Grant) white supremacy simply found other ways to accomplish its goals. Here we sit in 2020 still fighting it. I’m not wiping all the man accomplished because of political scandals. Nothing great is ever achieved perfectly or by only perfect people. What Grant accomplished was without question great and worthy of being not just remembered, but celebrated. Edited June 23, 2020 by Destino 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hersh said: I'm in the camp not understanding the Grant one at this point. I prefer we start with everything confederate related while also focusing on actual policy changes to get rid of systemic racism the best we can. Then maybe turn attention to other statues. I think its simpler when you just tore down the statues dedicated to traitorous hillbillies that wanted to enslave humans, collectively. It just falls apart if it gets looked at any other way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, clietas said: Why not? He have any ties to San Francisco? Grant was a ****ty general and a ****ty President. Dude presided over a incredibly corrupt administration. Take him and Jackson off the $50 n $20 taboot. There are people far more deserving. ****ty General? You don't know much about the Civil War do you? As for ****ty President a lot of the criticisms were derived from the Lost cause movement (Although yes corruption was present). Edited June 23, 2020 by nonniey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 What I take away from all of this is that monuments of people are an outdated concept. If you need to ego stroke, do it without subjecting the rest of us to a garish celebration of that person's questionable choices. History is a fickle **** and celebrating flawed people with monuments should be left to the cemetery. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 34 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: What I take away from all of this is that monuments of people are an outdated concept. If you need to ego stroke, do it without subjecting the rest of us to a garish celebration of that person's questionable choices. History is a fickle **** and celebrating flawed people with monuments should be left to the cemetery. I think you're right...people are also imperfect and context fades. Monuments or statues to someone in the moment are almost guaranteed not to stand the test of time. Take a far less serious subject like sports...are we really sure that a statue of Vince Lombardi or Joe Gibbs wouldn't offend people 50 years from now? Or, Hell, right now? I haven't combed through their pasts to know if they held some 1960s/70s beliefs that would be considered ignorant in 2020. I still remember the America's Game of the 1982 team. In that program, Gibbs says something about thinking John Riggins was a "fruit cake" or something similar. What keeps us from latching onto that statement, playing that out into an intolerance of certain people, and deciding that his name shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor or Hall of Fame? Long way of saying I think your post is the most interesting one in here...maybe we should just let the tales of the past tell our history and not honor imperfect people for moments of greatness or accomplishment? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 11 hours ago, RedskinsFan44 said: Roosevelt statue at museum of natural history has a Native American and am African leading the horse Teddy is riding on either side. It's the subservience depicted rather than TR in specific that caused offense I believe, and I can see why. That statue is awful and indefensible really. I'd love to hear from somebody why that depiction in that specific statue should be up. That statue thing, in general, is kinda dumb. The prevalence of, in a general sense. Why are we so obsessed with making statues of people? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/21/2020 at 9:41 PM, TryTheBeal! said: To be fair, that Roosevelt statue is racist as hell. Teddy deserves better...we all do. I didnt even know this statue existed until a couple days ago, but I cant imagine walking past it and not immediately thinking "WTF is this??" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, justice98 said: I didnt even know this statue existed until a couple days ago, but I cant imagine walking past it and not immediately thinking "WTF is this??" It’s really obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 That statue is like a caricature of a racist statue. Its ridiculous, and has to go. We can and should do better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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