Fixing the The United States Democratic Party

[grego]

12 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

There is definitely a problem with the messenging if you earnestly believe the Democratic Party is a far left party.

 

Or the real problem is where you are getting that messaging from?

 

23 hours ago, B&G said:

Not being snarky here at all.  The Dems two problems are the message and the messenger.

Dems need to move from the far left much closer to America's political center and they need likeable candidates whose policies reflect that change.

In my view, the people in charge of the Democrat party are not likely to allow that transformation and so will remain, for the most part,  outside the mainstream voting public's preferences.

 

 

i do agree that there is a problem with the messaging, but i think thats equally true of both parties. i think (and judging from opinions on the board) that the image of both parties is that they have been taken over by the extremes. the right thinks the left are marxists, while the left thinks the right are nazis.

 

some years ago i would have identified myself as a republican, but i feel like they've been 'taken over' by the far right, while i've moved more to the left on some issues. at the same time, the impression of the left (i'm talking about the impression- whether or not its true is another story) is that theyve been taken over by the far left. probably the two biggest movements on the left (blm, womens march) that have appeared recently openly embrace far left ideals and people. that scares people. very few on the left have spoken up about it, but those that have been put in their place. campus craziness may only be happening on a handful of college campuses, but if the left is silent on this issue, they will be seen as compliant. even if they think its a small issue, they would do well to speak up about it. 

 

So yes, I think both parties have an image problem and would do well to distance themselves from the extremes of their parties. 

[visionary]

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

Honestly, I dont think there is any accuracy polling GOP voters.  I think they have such a hatred and distrust of the MSM that they will give crazy answers just to eff with them.  They equate polling with MSM.  

The GOP and it's base demonstrate to you every day exactly how they think. You're deluding yourself because you don't want to believe that the GOP has become exactly what it appears to be. 

[88Comrade2000]

The Democrats' foolish family feud

 

Intolerant Democrats Devour Their Own - Note This own is by Karl Rove; so obvious bias.

 

[Kilmer17]

12 hours ago, visionary said:

 

I cant believe that's accurate.

[Hersh]

People claiming the Democrats are far left should post exactly what they believe the political center is now. 

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, Hersh said:

People claiming the Democrats are far left should post exactly what they believe the political center is now. 

I think we should first agree on what we use to determine it.  IE Is it the number of voters to the left and right of a certain issue?  Is it the number of elected officials to the left or right?

 

Take a hot button topic like abortion.  What defines the center?

[twa]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

I cant believe that's accurate.

 

Many large donors are still upset at the waste and incompetence and are directing their funds outside DNC control.

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

Many large donors are still upset at the waste and incompetence and are directing their funds outside DNC control.

Ahh.  I see it now.  Comparing DNC to RNC.  Not Dem to GOP.

[Hersh]

20 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think we should first agree on what we use to determine it.  IE Is it the number of voters to the left and right of a certain issue?  Is it the number of elected officials to the left or right?

 

Take a hot button topic like abortion.  What defines the center?

No, I want the people claiming the Dems are far left to say what they believe the center to be. After that we can discuss what the center might actually be.

[Kilmer17]

4 minutes ago, Hersh said:

No, I want the people claiming the Dems are far left to say what they believe the center to be. After that we can discuss what the center might actually be.

Maher said something right after the election.  I'm paraphrasing.  He said that on the issues, Americans agree with Dem positions more.  So using that baseline, I think you can say that the Dems are a centrist party.  However, when it comes time to vote for candidates, the GOP wins the middle voters.  So using that as a baseline, the GOP is a more centrist party.  The center, electorally, can be seen by looking at specific areas of the country.  The pollnerds always talk about the Philly suburbs, the I4 corridor etc.  And recently, those areas have voted for GOP.

 

I think the Dem party has a harder time getting it's extreme left wing to fall in line.  The GOP does not.  So that adds more credence to the idea that the Dems are more centrist, but I dont know what value it is.

[Llevron]

Actually never thought about it like that before. 

 

[B&G]

The Politial Center in America is an amalgam of Hillary Clinton's positions and those of John Kasich's.  

 

Generally, I would say that Centrists lean a little left on social issues and a little right on most others.

[PF Chang]

There's been some recent drama in young adult fiction that involves actual far leftists. It's covered in the link below: 

 

The Toxic Drama of YA Twitter

 

And a link to the review written by an actual far leftist:

 

http://b00kstorebabe.blogspot.com/2017/03/review-black-witch-by-laurie-forest.html

 

Good luck reading that review without rolling your eyes. Takes you inside the mind of, again, an ACTUAL FAR LEFTIST. These people are not represented by the Democratic party; they generally hate the Dems.

 

Meanwhile, the far right has nearly completed its takeover of the Republican party and is actually governing (ineffectively, of course). The far left has no power, and saying that the Democratic party is far left is simply wrong. 

[PleaseBlitz]

42 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Maher said something right after the election.  I'm paraphrasing.  He said that on the issues, Americans agree with Dem positions more.  So using that baseline, I think you can say that the Dems are a centrist party.  However, when it comes time to vote for candidates, the GOP wins the middle voters.  So using that as a baseline, the GOP is a more centrist party.  The center, electorally, can be seen by looking at specific areas of the country.  The pollnerds always talk about the Philly suburbs, the I4 corridor etc.  And recently, those areas have voted for GOP.

 

I think the Dem party has a harder time getting it's extreme left wing to fall in line.  The GOP does not.  So that adds more credence to the idea that the Dems are more centrist, but I dont know what value it is.

 

I agree with this, but it ignores the importance of the candidate(s) themselves.  

 

Hillary, i don't think anyone disputes, was extraordinarily prepared to be President, but she is not and has never been a good campaigner.  She didn't fire anyone up that doesn't get excited about policy.  Using a football metaphor, she appealed to the same people that watch football and pay attention to the battle along the line of scrimmage, rather than watching the ball.  The trenches are where the game is won and lost, but it's not exciting.  Obama, on the other hand, was not nearly as prepared to be President, but a pretty awesome campaigner.  He got people excited. 

 

Trump fired up the far right, and enough of the middle fell into line because of his success as making the email thing roughly equivalent to the fact that he is entirely unprepared to be President and is a world-class asshole.  He is also the exact person that talk-radio listeners have been wanting for forever, someone willing to go scorched earth, and Clinton had enough baggage, thanks to her 10,000 years being a boogieman to the right in the public eye  to make that be particularly effective.  

 

TL;DR, the Democrats need to find people that voters like as people. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

55 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think the Dem party has a harder time getting it's extreme left wing to fall in line.  The GOP does not.

Thats because the far right has taken over the GOP.

 

44 minutes ago, B&G said:

The Politial Center in America is an amalgam of Hillary Clinton's positions and those of John Kasich's.  

 

Generally, I would say that Centrists lean a little left on social issues and a little right on most others.

Then why would you say that the Dems, the people who nominated Clinton for presidency and fought through shady means to get her there, is the far left?

[skinny21]

I think I would argue that if the GOP wins the middle voters it's because they are better at playing to emotions (ie. fear),  lying, playing the blame game, twisting the truth, etc. as opposed to demonstrating a better platform, better leadership, or better character. 

[B&G]

Hillary is not, and never has been far left.  Never said she was. She is center left.  The Democrat party, as espoused by the DNC, is far left.

How can you derive from what I said that I was speaking about Hillary?  

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, B&G said:

Hillary is not, and never has been far left.  Never said she was. She is center left.  The Democrat party, as espoused by the DNC, is far left.

How can you derive from what I said that I was speaking about Hillary?  

She proclaimed she was the progressive candidate during the primaries.

She defended her record of supporting the far left when the criticism of her at the time was that she wasn't a real democrat.

 

The problem with clinton is that she was everything to everyone all the time. so you can find her saying she supports any idea over the course of 10 years because that's how she operated. Be everything to everyone, get that 1% bump in the poll. Very little true belief system behind her, she stood for whatever increased her polling. Which is why, shocker, she had trouble getting the dems excited. She was about as two faced as politician can be, publicly.

 

she was so concerned about it she changed her accent depending on where she was speaking, and said stupid **** like she keeps hot sauce in her purse.

 

it was remarkably fake and i still can't believe how many of the left were unaffected by it and either refused to see it or just didn't care.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think the Dem party has a harder time getting it's extreme left wing to fall in line.  The GOP does not.

I totally agree with you that the extreme right wing does not have any trouble getting the GOP to fall in line.

[Kilmer17]

If the GOP is now just the far right.  Doesn't that mean that the "center" is now far right ?

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, B&G said:

Hillary is not, and never has been far left.  Never said she was. She is center left.  The Democrat party, as espoused by the DNC, is far left.

How can you derive from what I said that I was speaking about Hillary?  

this don't make sense.

[B&G]

Good God, liberals will resort to saying anything to somehow rationalize the Dems huge losses at the ballot box over the last eight years, even to the point of saying the GOP fooled or hoodwinked the voters.  Seems it's never the Dems fault they lose, always someone elses.   They truly reject personal responsibility over every misstep.  It's funny, really.

 

 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 hour ago, B&G said:

Good God, liberals will resort to saying anything to somehow rationalize the Dems huge losses at the ballot box over the last eight years, even to the point of saying the GOP fooled or hoodwinked the voters.  Seems it's never the Dems fault they lose, always someone elses.   They truly reject personal responsibility over every misstep.  It's funny, really.

I see, now we goto this.

 

Like I said before, I think most of us know what you consider far right and its probably anything left of Fox News.

[DogofWar1]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

If the GOP is now just the far right.  Doesn't that mean that the "center" is now far right ?

You're viewing the spectrum as the overton window itself.  I would argue the overton window sits upon the spectrum.