Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I'm not a big fan of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 7 hours ago, clietas said: You're hung up on cost of living. My folks never made anywhere near $150k. They've managed to live quite the swanky life in NoVa for the past 25 years. I just don't agree with you that $150k is nothing in this area. Usually this is where I'd say sorry but Im not. Yes but overall there pretty low. Can we at least agree on that? Well, yah, if you bought in the 1970s. Im sure its a fortune 150k IS nothing in many parts of the country. There is no way i could move a family of 4 to the dc metro area on that salary. Would just never happen. LA, NY, San Fran, and several other major metro areas. Your 3 bedroom piece of shot home in a cramped neighborhood with bad schools is going to run you 400k. Right off the bat you are saddled with a crippling mortgage that is eating up well over half of your take home pay. And on top of that, your hose suvks, your kids schools suck, your commute is dreadful, and your quality of life is zero. Which is why, as a general statemeent, all of those places suck major ass unless you are rich or a legacy resident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Reading through the thread, catching up with all you people that never seem to sleep, I caught tshile & Co. in this exchange....... 9 hours ago, tshile said: I just don't agree with the way the Democrats often decide how to do it. And to be fair, many times I'm not outraged or outright against their ideas, I just think there's a better solution that's not being considered. And some times, the reason it's not being considered is because of lobbying or votes; and that makes me mad, even if I don't think the idea is terrible. ...and the attendant responses. Now, not that t needs my help in any way, he's pretty glib, good footwork, punches in the clinches and all, but it reminded me of something. This to me is a more than fair point, the class demonization feeds the problems on both sides. There is never an honest recognition that the "rich", however you want to slide the scale to define it, do pony up a lot of the gas to run the machine. Just the way it is. I'd like to see taxes increased for the wealthy, because they are the ones with the cash. Can't get blood from a stone, Willie Sutton, blah blah blah, the better off demographics in this country will simply have to let go of some of it. AT THE SAME TIME, you're not going to beat them over the head with their economic success, take their money and tell 'em their lucky we didn't take it all, that is guaranteed to get a big ole FU in response. We could, if politicians would set their egos aside and stop pandering for one damn second, "market it" with some basis or morality and honesty as a patriotic sacrifice for the good of the nation, because that's kinda what it is, or should be. The rich ought to admit that they are rich because they sit on top of a heap built over centuries by a hell of a lot of everyday people that worked their whole lives at it, that they get to be rich because of America and the American system/way of life. That's cool, someone is going to be, but if you want to convince millionaires/billionaires/gazillionaires to pay more in taxes, while at the same time calling them every name in the book, you have to catch them out at night and put a gun in their face. Now, this works both ways, the lesser/lower/poorer/whatever classes ought to stop some of their bull**** whining/victimization/drama queen act and take a clear look around. I've been abroad, the "poor" people in this country wouldn't make it to sundown if they had to deal with what being poor means elsewhere. You got alot to work with, maybe not enough but you aren't emptyhanded. Those rich people you hate and idolize and want to be one of might be a little more open to logic if they didn't feel like you might have a gun in your pocket (metaphorically). They just might be a little more open to helping out if they got even one tiny shred of appreciation along the way. They might just be willing to pay more in taxes if they got any understanding that for an awful lot of them they busted their asses to get all that loot people want to take away. I am somewhat sympathetic to their views. EVERYONE needs to "get" the undeniable fact that what we're doing now ain't working, and there will be no white knights on horseback riding in, we either fix this together or go down together, sink or swim, there is no third option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: And that right there is what keeps mild comservatives from becoming Democrats. This plus infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weganator Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 hours ago, clietas said: Oh the horror. So you'll have to wait to buy that new rolex or that new Lexus. Like I said I have no sympathy for the rich. Then don't expect it back when we want to keep more of our money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Well, back to the topic at hand. Property taxes were mentioned here a good bit. The dems could pull a TON of GOPers if they would support the elimination of property taxes. Now that would require replacing it with something else, but there are many (I'm one of them) that think it's crazy you never actually own your own home. Don't pay property taxes? Boom, house gone. Property taxes also introduce all kinds of inequities across different demographics. Now I realize that property taxes in many states, PA is one of them, that uses property taxes to fund schools. This is the primary reason they have stayed in place because it is a fairly predictable revenue source, but I still can't get past the fact you never really own your home. I'm an educator too and realize funding schools must be fairly predictable. Dems should find a way to eliminate them and would pull a ton of conservatives into the party. Sorry for any grammatical errors...didn't proofread before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Weganator said: Then don't expect it back when we want to keep more of our money I expect nothing... especially from those who have so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, zoony said: Well, yah, if you bought in the 1970s. Im sure its a fortune More like 1993. More like Loudoun County. More like 6+ acres o land. You're right tho it is worth a small fortune. Still worth less than property I own in NC. Mayhaps combine Cost of living with inflation to y'alls arguments? I might actually start agreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 To me, the largest problem the Democrats have is actually finding and implementing to solutions to problems. The Republicans don't even seem to be capable of actually identifying the problems. I think the college costs is an example of this. Republicans don't even really talk about the issue. It is like it isn't a problem. Democrats come up with whole new programs to solve it, but don't actually get it done. For the Democrats with college tuition, why not just figure out what has changed (why has college tuition gone up so much) and do things to bring it back down instead of starting a new program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Democrats ideas have seemingly been stale and out of touch for sometime. First order of business should be to get rid of all the old elitists who run the party. Not likely tho with Tom Perez running things. Hell he never should of been put in charge in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Perhaps we should get this thread back to fixing the Democratic Party. Maybe somebody could start a thread where people can express their belief that people in Fairfax County (the third richest county in the US), who have a household income that's three times the Fairfax County median household income ($55K), that's in the top 5% of all income earners in the US, who are living in a $400K house (which they consider a necessary cost of living), are barely avoiding living in crime-ridden slums served by intolerable schools, and are being "punished" because someone suggested the federal government should help poor people attend college, and didn't include them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, PeterMP said: To me, the largest problem the Democrats have is actually finding and implementing to solutions to problems. The Republicans don't even seem to be capable of actually identifying the problems. Yup. That's the best way to sum them up in one sentence each. The problem is they keep playing to their 'base', which keeps them stuck in those holes. It seems to me there's a hell of a lot of moderates that would vote for a candidate from either party, if the candidate showed themselves to have new ideas for these problems that might actually work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 We cant even agree about what we disagree about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Getting back to topic. I think that the DNC needs to better support local and state candidates across the board. Too much picking and choosing there. Plus, the last platform had a lot of good stuff for humans in it. The DNC needs to make sure the message is consistent and communicated on down the line. It's probably my biggest beef with the national organization. Local and state candidates need to work on how the platform can apply in their area, and the national organization needs to help them out with this messaging. The result is that not only is the message going out from the national organization, but the entire electorate is being educated as to what Democrats stand for and intend to do that benefits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 13 hours ago, clietas said: Mayhaps I have my own story of success and self sacrafice that I glossed over as well. What does it matter? A lot if people put in hard work. Majority of which dont seem to have much to show for it. Their scraping by on far less tha $200k a year. Thats why I keep mentioning differing philosophical outlooks. You want to enjoy your prosperity. Which is fine. I want to improve my community. Which I think is also fine. Sorry I'm just now getting back to responding. I notice that you mention philosophical outlooks and I agree that is what they are. But aren't you (by you, I mean the Left) trying to push your philosophical belief on me? By wanting me to kick in more of my money that I earned to help those perceived to be less fortunate? I guess someone has to stand up for the little guy who has trouble getting his voice heard? Similar to a fetus that can't speak for itself? I bring that up because philosophical opinions very by person. And one must be careful when trying to push their philosophies on someone else. Now I have always been of the opinion that the Right is wrong on their abortion stance. I believe if they don't like abortions, they shouldn't get one. But keep their noses out of what others do. But instead they try to force their philosophical outlooks on others. In their mind they are sticking up for the little guy (I disagree but understand that is their belief). EDIT: I do NOT want to start an abortion debate. Just pointing out differences in philosophies and when it is okay to impose them on others. Please don't try to argue abortion because I am already Pro-Choice. 4 hours ago, Weganator said: Then don't expect it back when we want to keep more of our money 2 hours ago, clietas said: I expect nothing... especially from those who have so much. Are you sure? Because it sounds like you are expecting a bunch of people to kick in some extra dough. Now how does this tie to fixing the Left? It's about messaging and it's appearance. Clietas (don't mean to call you out bro, just using an example) sounds like he wants more of a Robin Hood system (take from the rich, give to the poor). Obviously that pisses off those of us more fortunate, especially those of us that came from very little and built ourselves up using smart decisions (I get the hate for those trust fund babies). You need to make it sound more fair while still getting us to pay more. I'll use an example with totally made up numbers: I'm a fan of a flat tax with very little exemptions. So I propose a 17% federal income tax with the first $50k of your income exempt. So the person making $1,050,000 a year would pay $170k in taxes. The person making $100k a year would only pay $8,500 a year. Now that rich person is paying 20x the amount of taxes. But it sounds more fair because it sounds like we are all getting taxed the same except for those at the very bottom. And the Left doesn't come across as just having their hand in my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 @TheGreatBuzz I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have. You brought up a few topics that I'd certainly enjoy discussing further though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, clietas said: @TheGreatBuzz I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have. You brought up a few topics that I'd certainly enjoy discussing further though. In my opinion what you/we have been discussing is on topic because it addresses the perceived message of the Left and how it could/should be fixed. Unless someone else wants to say I'm wrong, I'd say feel free to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 If the current leaders of this party can't get Clinton to be quiet about the past election. Then they need to go themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 dey took mah jerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I read today that Biden is starting a PAC. And "keeping his options open". Ive said over and over that Biden would have beaten Trump soundly. But now? Doesn't he have some responsibility in the current state of affairs? If he doesn't step aside for the annointment, we'd be in better shape as a nation. Biden represents a step back for the Dems and,imo, owes us all an apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I love Biden but like Sanders he's just a bit too old. I'd have been fine with him running in 2016 but 2020? No thanks. Is there not anyone young and fresh coming up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 This is a pretty neat article touching on some things that I have been pondering for some time: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/01/democrats-new-crossover-voters-romney-clinton-215211 It talks about the Romney-Clinton voters: Quote This focus isn’t exactly wrong: Yes, Democrats lost those voters in 2016, bigly. It’s one of the many reasons Hillary Clinton lost the White House (disclosure: I worked on her campaign). And yes, the future of the Democratic Party does depend, at least in part, on figuring out how to win some of them back. But the tunnel-vision focus on these Obama-Trump voters as the only path forward for the Democratic Party ignores a major opportunity. In the six months since the election, we’ve obsessed about Obama-Trump voters but completely ignored their inverse: the Romney-Clinton voters. Who are they? Romney-Clinton voters are, generally speaking, college-educated suburban professionals: lawyers, doctors and businesspeople. They voted for Mitt Romney in 2012, but switched to Hillary Clinton in 2016. They abhor xenophobia, the alt-right and racists, but they also mostly socialize within their own race and they’re mostly white. They’re socially liberal but not obsessed with a political agenda. They value fiscal responsibility but also believe in investing in the future, especially education. They remain deeply worried about Trump’s qualifications, scared about his temperament and alienated by his misogyny and ties to extremists. For the first time in a long time, they’re willing to hear about and vote for Democrats. There was a clear shift in a lot of suburban professional districts away from the GOP. The Dems should embrace their new professional class voters. The obsession with working class voters is utterly pointless. They have been trending away from the Dems for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I think the biggest electoral question facing the Dems right now is a two part study- 1- Was Obama so loved as a candidate that he outperformed the expected norm both as the Candidate and his affect down ballot 2- Was Clinton so hated as a candidate that she had the opposite affect? Maybe Al Gore is the true measuring stick for Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Watching local news right now, and there's an upcoming story about people stealing Jon Ossoff signs out of yards...one guy nailed his to a tree to keep it from getting stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I think the biggest electoral question facing the Dems right now is a two part study- 1- Was Obama so loved as a candidate that he outperformed the expected norm both as the Candidate and his affect down ballot 2- Was Clinton so hated as a candidate that she had the opposite affect? Maybe Al Gore is the true measuring stick for Dems. It doesn't make sense to analyze 2017 politics through a 2000 lense. With the data available, it doesn't even make sense to look it at through 08/12 lense. There is a very clear political realignment taking place that will dramatically alter the landscape of American politics for the next several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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