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Predictions for Doctson

TheGreat8s

By TheGreat8s
in The Stadium

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Wyvern

Wyvern

Posted
Posted

Nice bit of info HTTR -- I'd like to see them use Crowder more, and if he can play the RWR -- that would be fantastic.

 

By the way, my earlier prediction was based on the OP's request that we  "assume Doctson is heathy enough to play for the season".  And frankly, I'm not convinced Doctson will be ready by the start of the season, nor am I confident he won't need 'resting' at some point during the season.

 

So it would be great if Crowder could pick up some of the slack I anticipate could happen from Doctson's health.  (Of course that means that Grant slides back into the SWR role).  ?

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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@HTTRDynasty btw I wasn't saying crowder has difficulty creating seperation in the slot, he's fantastic at that and he's one of the best I've seen at going 0-60 (so to speak) - both through route running and explosion.  But when the sideline can be used as an extra defender its a whole different ball game.

 

You seem pretty damn confident that he can- it's the rare 5'8" bird that can fly as a outside WR and not someone who is used primarily in space. No doubt doctson fits the mold better, but crowder is probably my favorite redskin still on the team not named trent williams so I'm down to see him succeed in any and every role. I just don't want square pegs being forced into round holes, if that ends up being what it is.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

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16 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

@HTTRDynasty btw I wasn't saying crowder has difficulty creating seperation in the slot, he's fantastic at that and he's one of the best I've seen at going 0-60 (so to speak) - both through route running and explosion.  But when the sideline can be used as an extra defender its a whole different ball game.

 

You seem pretty damn confident that he can- it's the rare 5'8" bird that can fly as a outside WR and not someone who is used primarily in space. No doubt doctson fits the mold better, but crowder is probably my favorite redskin still on the team not named trent williams so I'm down to see him succeed in any and every role. I just don't want square pegs being forced into round holes, if that ends up being what it is.

 

Not trying to be a smartass or anything, but did you read the full breakdown in the article blurbs I posted?  According to Next Gen Stats, Crowder was the best slot WR in the league when it came to creating separation as an outside WR.  He was far better than both D Jax and Garcon when it came to Out Wide separation as well, albeit with a smaller sample size.

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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14 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Not trying to be a smartass or anything, but did you read the full breakdown in the article blurbs I posted?  According to Next Gen Stats, Crowder was the best slot WR in the league when it came to creating separation as an outside WR.  He was far better than both D Jax and Garcon when it came to Out Wide separation as well, albeit with a smaller sample size.

Yes I did, stats are nice.

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moondog

moondog

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On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:32 PM, XxSpearheadxX said:

Crowder is friggin awesome, but asking him to line up an play along the sideline is not the best way to use him, he is too small. Keep him in the slot and Doctson will play the Y

 

I agree that I think he is best utilized in the slot. That being said, an article that was released this offseason had numbers for average separation in the slot and outside, average separation at catch, etc. Crowder was in the top ten, if not top five in the NFL in these categories for both the slot and outside. In fact, his numbers were actually better on the outside. Not saying he should become our outside guy but I think it is a valid argument that if he is our second or even best option, that he plays on the outside in two receiver sets and pushes inside on three receiver sets and Doctson goes outside.

 

Ideally Doctson is healthy, he and Pryor ball out and are the two best receivers and Crowder plays almost exclusively in the slot. But receiver is a difficult position to adjust to in the NFL so even if healthy Doctson may not be a complete stud early, whereas Crowder has clearly shown he can be effective inside the numbers and out.

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ncr2h

ncr2h

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35 catches, 400 yards, 3 TDs

 

I don't think he'll be the breakout star that people are hoping for.  Elite WRs almost always declare for the NFL draft as soon as they're eligible.  Doctson is 1 month younger than Odell Beckham, who has been in the NFL for 3 years.  I think the proper way to think about Doctson is, "What round would he have been drafted in if he had declared as a junior?"  I have to assume that the answer is pretty late (4th+ round) or else he would have declared at that time.  I have more faith in Crowder becoming the next Antonio Brown than Doctson becoming a 1000+ yard receiver.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

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8 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Yes I did, stats are nice.

 

They are.  Especially when they are as objective as can be, with Next Gen technology putting chips in the players' helmets.  It also matches the eye test for me.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Back to the topic:

 

Doctson is a more athletic version of Allen Robinson, which should be terrifying for NFCE defenses.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/allen-robinson?id=2543509

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/josh-doctson?id=2555343

 

 

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goskins10

goskins10

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For those thinking he is not healthy yet - he did work out with Kirk and the others WRs. Doubt he does that if he is still hurting.

 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Kirk-Cousins-I-Am-Looking-Forward-To-Getting-Back-To-Work/73a930ee-708f-461c-bfb4-4d8a852f5bf6

 

3 hours ago, ncr2h said:

35 catches, 400 yards, 3 TDs

 

I don't think he'll be the breakout star that people are hoping for.  Elite WRs almost always declare for the NFL draft as soon as they're eligible.  Doctson is 1 month younger than Odell Beckham, who has been in the NFL for 3 years.  I think the proper way to think about Doctson is, "What round would he have been drafted in if he had declared as a junior?"  I have to assume that the answer is pretty late (4th+ round) or else he would have declared at that time.  I have more faith in Crowder becoming the next Antonio Brown than Doctson becoming a 1000+ yard receiver.


That logic falls apart when you know his path to TCU - not that I believe there is much validity either way. Doctson started at Wyoming and then transferred to TCU. After sitting out a year, he played 12 gms in 2013 starting 6. He beat out several other players to gain the starting role in 2014 and played very well. But unlike others you mention he only had 1 yr as a starter. It makes perfect sense for him to stay at TCU. To me that means he is even more ready to make the transition to the NFL.  

 

If you have watched any of his tape, you see his tenacity and aggression to the ball is something that's hard to teach. He is an excellent leaper and often rips the ball away from defenders on poorly thrown balls and good defensive play. Out of HS he was a 3 star recruit and worked himself into a 1st rd draft position. And the Redskins were not the only ones who thought that. He was considered 1st rd talent by anyone who was ranking players. His tape does not lie. He has great potential. It's up to him and the team to bring it out of him.  

 

It's kind of interesting that all of a sudden someone being responsible and staying in college all 4 yrs is seen as a bad thing, or at the least an indictment on his potential. Not really seeing that logic at all.

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ncr2h

ncr2h

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On 4/12/2017 at 0:59 PM, goskins10 said:

 

 

It's kind of interesting that all of a sudden someone being responsible and staying in college all 4 yrs is seen as a bad thing, or at the least an indictment on his potential. Not really seeing that logic at all.

It's not illogical at all.  It is commonplace in the NBA - the best NBA prospects typically declare for the draft after their first couple of seasons of college ball.  Finding a guy who lasted all 4 years at college who ends up being an All-NBA type player is very rare, which is why the guys like Damian Lillard are such gems.

 

And if staying in college is in fact the responsible thing to do, doesn't that imply that the guy is an inferior talent?  After all, if you have a shot to be drafted in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft, then declaring for the draft is the responsible thing to do.  What are you going to learn in your sociology class or playing against future rec leaguers that is going to make you more money in the long run than signing a multi-million dollar contract?

 

As for the story about his college career - who cares?  I'm sure any number of college seniors have similar stories of overcoming the odds and finally coming into their own as 23+ year-olds facing off against 18 and 19 year-olds.  The fact is that, particularly for NFL WRs and NBA players, the elite talents know that they are elite very early on in their college careers.  The guys who are going to top out as #2 WRs or 6th men tend to stay in college all four years.  Maybe Doctson will be the first four year WR since Reggie Wayne was drafted in 2001 to become All Pro...but I wouldn't count on it.

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Peregrine

Peregrine

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52 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

It's not illogical at all.  It is commonplace in the NBA - the best NBA prospects typically declare for the draft after their first couple of seasons of college ball.  Finding a guy who lasted all 4 years at college who ends up being an All-NBA type player is very rare, which is why the guys like Damian Lillard are such gems.

 

And if staying in college is in fact the responsible thing to do, doesn't that imply that the guy is an inferior talent?  After all, if you have a shot to be drafted in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft, then declaring for the draft is the responsible thing to do.  What are you going to learn in your sociology class or playing against future rec leaguers that is going to make you more money in the long run than signing a multi-million dollar contract?

Etc

We will just refer back to this when he's a superstar. One of the great ways people come to wrong conclusions is by saying that because most people are one way, all people are. You'll quickly find when learning about people that's not the case. And if one is so lazy to only use the number of college years to predict future success, one will definitely never be employed in that capacity.

 

And speaking of illogical, using what happens in the NBA as evidence, considering the different eligibility rules.

 

 

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Wyndorf25

Wyndorf25

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12 hours ago, zoony said:

I Think he will see action in 4 games

 

thats my prediction 

 

Do you not trust that he is fully healed, can't/won't stay healthy, or some other reason? Judging by his college tape and (very) limited action in his rookie season--I saw a WR who looks like he can play in the NFL and be productive. If he only sees action in 4 games in his second year then you are basically putting him in the "bust" category.

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HTTRDynasty

HTTRDynasty

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Posted

:drooley:

 

“What do you do when we’re on the same side and it’s Cover 2?” Pryor said. “Where is the safety at? It puts Jordan one-on-one with the linebacker inside. If the safety stays inside, then I’m outside one-on-one. Or you got Josh Doctson. If he starts showing on film the way he showed me down there -- he’s catching crazy balls one-handed and jumping out of the sky. Then you have Crowder? What do you do?”

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30919/after-working-with-kirk-cousins-terrelle-pryor-says-were-going-to-do-well

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