Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

You suggested we were freaking out over nothing.  Maybe you believe Trump did this as part of some brilliant diabolical plan that will further the prospects of the  USA. MY guess due to the chaos among his administration is he is a man child who lacks self awareness. We will see which is which shortly.

 

It is the second. This post by @DogofWar1in the Comey thread has a bunch of tweets from Kurt Eichenwald that gives a pretty clear look into how Trump's brain works.

 

 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

I just want the Trumpvkt

9 minutes ago, Rskins91 said:

Serious question to Trump supporters... can we at least admit, that what Trump did was astronomically stupid? I'm not asking about legality, or equivalency with Hillary and emails... I'm asking, is it smart for the President to declassify information that is sensitively given to us from an ally, and give that to the Russians? For no apparent strategic reason?

 

What are the costs and benefits of this? Because it seems the cost far outweighs any good this can do, so therefore it's stupid above all else. Is there ANYONE who wants to try and say this wasn't stupid WITHOUT bringing up emails or legality?

 

 

 

Along those lines, I have a little game I'd love for the Trumpists and Republicans to partake in. Hopefully they're up for it. 

 

Ok...

 

I want you to close your eyes and think of the current situation. Think about all the details as we know then. What happened. How it happened. What the response has been. Everything. 

 

But with your eyes still closed, instead of President Trump being the one at the center, it is President Clinton. President Trump doesn't exist. He lost. It is President Clinton. Change nothing else. Just that. Same details. Same setting. Same scenario. Same act. Same response. But Hillary Clinton is the one sitting on the Oval Office.

 

Really picture it in your head. See it. See the news reports. See yourself hearing about it for the first time...  "It's being reported tonight that President Clinton..." See the posts online. Really put yourself there. Feel it. Explore yourself. Explore your reaction. Be honest about it. Feel. 

 

Then open your eyes...

 

We all have are preconceptions and prejudices. It's whatever towards her. What do you think it says and means about your defense of Trump though? Honestly ask yourself that. 

[skinny21]

As best as I can tell, holding the stance that is no big deal requires a few things:

 

1) denial that Russia is working very hard to destabilize Europe - from Ukraine, Montenegro and Brexit to elections in Norway, Denmark, France, Germany and the US (along with our relations with Europe).  

2) denial that Russia has a hand in the Syrian crisis which is also helping to cause this destabilization. 

3) denial of the belief that Putin has turned against the West.  

4) denial that this information our President gave to the Russians is reported to be intel that we were not given permission to share. 

5) denial that this latest story compounds the leaking we've already seen from the intelligence community as well as the WH.  

6) denial that other countries (that we share intel with) would deserve to be highly alarmed... at minimum, over the conduct of this administration wrt intelligence

7) denial that this (unprecedented) situation is very likely to cause intelligence partners to likely alter the amount/type of info they share.  

8) denial of the numerous reports of former and current intelligence official (Republican/Democrat/non partisan) that think this situation is essentially insane and possibly (very) damaging to the efforts of our our intelligence community (and therefore, possibly our military and law enforcement).  

 

All the while cleaving to the belief that this unbelievably narcissistic, ignorant, petty man surely can't be taking us down the road we appear to be on.  

 

 

If you want to step to the speculative side of things, throw in the Ukraine platform shift, the numerous dead Russian officials, Trump meeting Kisleyev and Lavrov (at Putin's request, and in the Oval Office).  The treatment of our State Department (one of Putin's nemesis'), and the Russian ties to Trump via banking, real estate, and to Tillerson with the massive Exxon interests.  Trump's tactics following the Russian script - delegitimizate the media, question Judges, Investigators, etc.  aren't endearing either.  And on and on...

 

It all leads back to major (again, unprecedented) conflicts of interest with a country that most experts deem extremely hostile to our interests, and those of our top allies. 

[visionary]

 

[scruffylookin]

What the treasonous apologists continue to ignore is that this classified intel was provided by an ally.  It was not ours to divulge without their approval. 

 

Trump committed treason. Period. 

 

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, spjunkies said:

Why is it always the Russians when it comes to this jackhole? 

 

He bans all media except theirs and now he supposedly can't watch what he says around their officials? Seems pretty bloody odd to me.

You know, this is another side to the story. Trump wasn't just giving away Top, top classified info to Russian leaders. He did so with Russian journalists in the room. This doesn't become a state to state transfer of intel, but one that was exposed to civilians too. Now, I realize the Russian media is state controlled, but still, that adds a different dimension.

 

Moreover, was the reason to exclude American journalists because Trump knew he was about to divulge secret info? Would that make it better or worse?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Burgold

[DogofWar1]

6 hours ago, twa said:

 

He supposedly disclosed information,and yes that is different than declassifying.

and he has the authority

 

Here's the thing, does he though?

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-16/trump-s-classified-disclosure-is-shocking-but-legal

Bloomberg says "disclosure" is legal, but then:

Quote

 The president, however, has inherent constitutional authority to declassify information at will. And that means the federal laws that criminalize the disclosure of classified secrets don’t apply to him.

 

Then there's this:

Quote

The law goes on to criminalize any disclosure of classified information that’s “prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States.” At first blush that language would seem arguably to apply to Trump’s disclosure. But once again, the clause depends on disclosure of classified information -- and Trump can simply say he declassified the information when he gave it to the Russians.

 

I'm very much uncertain the President has the power to disclose without declassification.  Certainly he can declassify to then disclose (agreement with ally notwithstanding), but that's vastly different than the latter without the former.

 

Several articles I've read go through the same thing.  They mention "disclosure" and then suddenly start talking about declassification powers.

 

 

It strongly appears that, from the perspective of a President, disclosure follows declassification, and the former cannot occur without the latter.

 

So Trump presumably did both things.

[LD0506]

The smokescreen about the "absolutely technical definition of legality" vis-a-vis the latest ****up from the ****up is just that, a smokescreen. There probably are not black and white statutes preventing the * from revealing shared highly classified info with our enemies in this way, because WHO EVER THOUGHT THAT WAS NEEDED??!? But still, more obfuscation and lies, rationalizations to fit preexisting bias, that is literally all it is.

 

The issue here is the effect this has within the IC, here and abroad. Most people have this very simplistic, cartoonish James Bondian view of what happens and how, that is no closer to reality than SpongeBob. This is the single biggest ****up to date, this trumps all his others idiotic ****ups because it sends shockwaves around the world. People are scrambling to cover their asses and destroy stuff at this moment because they cannot know if or when the ****up might out them to make himself look cool. That's scary, the intelligence capabilities of this country, the very flow of information that helps us survive, literally physically survive, is put in jeopardy because some teenager wants to play "whose is bigger?".  I was part of the military IC, I know wtf I'm talking about here, the effect of this is incalculable.

 

Those that choose, intentionally consciously choose, to ignore or defend or justify this are complicit in this atrocity, too far gone to feel any shame at their actions, and need to be................................ hell, I don't know, I just don't know what the hell we do here. Apparently there are millions among us that are no more Americans than the mayor of Asunción, that willingly accept this criminal cabal subverting our nation, cheer it on even. You cannot wave the flag and back this ****, they are mutually exclusive.

[skinsmarydu]

2 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 Apparently there are millions among us that are no more Americans than the mayor of Asunción, that willingly accept this criminal cabal subverting our nation, cheer it on even. You cannot wave the flag and back this ****, they are mutually exclusive.

Very well said. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Trump throwing his people under the bus again. How can any of these people go out and make statements knowing Trump is going to just contradict them the next day?

[spjunkies]

The fool simply can't help himself. Sad!

[RedskinsFan44]

God he's dumb.

 

[skinsmarydu]

7 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

Trump throwing his people under the bus again. How can any of these people go out and make statements knowing Trump is going to just contradict them the next day?

They need a paycheck?  *hopefully they figure out that the McMansion (or mansion) will be forclosed on when this doofus goes away.*

 

edit, add:  I forgot, he'll still be in the news every ****in' day about how he "inadvertently" destroyed the country, and now the Ds have to, once again, pull the giant out of the ditch & get it running again...

I WANT MY REAL PRESIDENT BACK.  The one who gave a ****...on some levels, I still have issues...but he KNEW STUFF. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by skinsmarydu

[LD0506]

I celebrated the hiring of McMasters, he was one of the very few hires that I felt good about. He is not just smart, but a decent guy, someone with a track record of insight and integrity. Basically 180 degrees from most of the others.

 

He got used, this was political bukkake, forced out as a shill to be embarrassed just hours later. How does this man, a man I respect, come in to work today and still tell himself he is serving some higher cause?

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I celebrated the hiring of McMasters, he was one of the very few hires that I felt good about. He is not just smart, but a decent guy, someone with a track record of insight and integrity. Basically 180 degrees from most of the others.

 

He got used, this was political bukkake, forced out as a shill to be embarrassed just hours later. How does this man, a man I respect, come in to work today and still tell himself he is serving some higher cause?

Reminds you of Colin Powell. Powell is a good man, but was also a good soldier. Still, don't know if he was a dupe or willing liar.

[No Excuses]

So we basically lost an asset giving intel against ISIS on the ground because Trump wanted to impress his Russian pals.

 

 

And how obvious is it that he ****ed over Jordanian intel?

 

 

Deep down inside, every Trump voter knows they ****ed up. Too proud to admit it at this point.

[tshile]

The problem at this point is two fold:

 

Trump has screwed up so much, that even if he does something 'right', he's an easy target for controversy. Even if his meeting with Russia was as he describes, it's exceptionally easy to believe otherwise.

 

People will accept any report of anything, from any source, if it fits their desired narrative. Tweets are acceptable pieces of information for serious issues. Anonymous sources are accepted. Word games are easily played, and no one notices. It doesn't matter what side you're on, you can see the other side doing it. And if you're not on any side you see them both doing it...

[@DCGoldPants]

 

Supporters and Staff this AM.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

The problem at this point is two fold:

 

Trump has screwed up so much, that even if he does something 'right', he's an easy target for controversy. Even if his meeting with Russia was as he describes, it's exceptionally easy to believe otherwise.

 

People will accept any report of anything, from any source, if it fits their desired narrative. Tweets are acceptable pieces of information for serious issues. Anonymous sources are accepted. Word games are easily played, and no one notices. It doesn't matter what side you're on, you can see the other side doing it. And if you're not on any side you see them both doing it...

Trump just admitted he intentionally gave up top secret info to the Russians. Said, he's President and can do whatever he wants.

 

 

[haithman]

eagerly awaiting the RedskinsMayne spin zone

[LD0506]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

The problem at this point is two fold:

 

Trump has screwed up so much, that even if he does something 'right', he's an easy target for controversy. Even if his meeting with Russia was as he describes, it's exceptionally easy to believe otherwise.

 

People will accept any report of anything, from any source, if it fits their desired narrative. Tweets are acceptable pieces of information for serious issues. Anonymous sources are accepted. Word games are easily played, and no one notices. It doesn't matter what side you're on, you can see the other side doing it. And if you're not on any side you see them both doing it...

 

C'mon man, your Presidunce confirmed this himself, tweeting from the toilet as usual, the same way he told us all he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. You trying make these dry, intellectual points to deflect is probably worse than the trogs in the red hats still yelling "Lock er up!", you know better.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, LD0506 said:

 

C'mon man, your Presidunce confirmed this himself, tweeting from the toilet as usual, the same way he told us all he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. You trying make these dry, intellectual points to deflect is probably worse than the trogs in the red hats still yelling "Lock er up!", you know better.

He may have missed it. Tweets just came out an hour ago.

[tshile]

Just now, Burgold said:

Trump just admitted he intentionally gave up top secret info to the Russians. Said, he's President and can do whatever he wants.

I'm aware...

 

I find it interesting the word games the admin is playing. McMaster listed what trump (supposedly) didn't tell Russia, and called the story false, but I didn't see where he denied 'classified information' was given. 

 

Word games. 

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

I'm aware...

 

I find it interesting the word games the admin is playing. McMaster listed what trump (supposedly) didn't tell Russia, and called the story false, but I didn't see where he denied 'classified information' was given. 

 

Word games. 

Then I don't understand your post. You think the media is playing political games on this?

I'd also suggest you read the article. Very soberly and carefully written. Not sensational or damning. They included quotes from all sides and updated to include the McMasters' info.

[tshile]

7 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

C'mon man, your Presidunce confirmed this himself, tweeting from the toilet as usual, the same way he told us all he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. You trying make these dry, intellectual points to deflect is probably worse than the trogs in the red hats still yelling "Lock er up!", you know better.

I find it funny you took a post about people appealing to desired narratives, and immediately assumed it was a defense of trump or about the criticism of trump.

 

It was about the opposite. People are blindly accepting the administrations defense of this. Well, some people. I'm on vacation with my parents, foxnews junkies, and have been watching them watch foxnews the whole time. It's incredible the mental gymnastics being done to write this off, while simultaneously accepting the implication that this dnc worker killed in DC was probably another item on the Clinton body count.

 

It's just funny what passes for 'facts' for people.

 

Continue your assuming though. (" your presidunce", lol, what a joke discussing politics is anymore.)