pft.com bruce Allen won’t let Scot McCloughan talk to media

[TSO]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Well, I think it's possible that the team can win sometimes despite dysfunction, don't you? Just because we win 8-9 games doesn't mean that there are no issues with Snyder or Allen. 

 

It's possible, sure, but so are a lot of things. Winning despite dysfunction for two straight years is highly improbable. 8-9 games is huge for this franchise considering where they've been. 

 

I can't ignore that. And if you're going by our past dysfunction, when have we sustained anything for two straight years "despite dysfunction"? 

 

The best we got before, despite our dysfunction, was a playoff run and then an epic collapse almost immediately in the next season. 

 

Sounds contradictory. 

 

1 hour ago, markshark84 said:

 

There is a chance the article isn't true --- but there is nothing in the past that would cause me to question it, because the entire premise is consistent with Snyder's (& whomever the current errand boy is at the time) behavior over the past 20 years.  Anything that doesn't put the attention and/or credit on him --- he destroys.

 

See above. The past dysfunction is actually evidence of the opposite, not evidence for what you guys are claiming. 

[drowland]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

Look, I'm definitely not a Snyder guy like many here. But this is getting ridiculous. 

 

I kinda remember you being one of the bigger Snyderrato apologists on this board.  

 

In regards to the thread topic, I think it's something to monitor over the next couple months, but not sure it's a big deal.  It could have a number of meanings.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

It's possible, sure, but so are a lot of things. Winning despite dysfunction for two straight years is highly improbable. 8-9 games is huge for this franchise considering where they've been. 

 

I can't ignore that. And if you're going by our past dysfunction, when have we sustained anything for two straight years "despite dysfunction"? 

 

The best we got before, despite our dysfunction, was a playoff run and then an epic collapse almost immediately in the next season. 

 

Sounds contradictory. 

 

 

See above. The past dysfunction is actually evidence of the opposite, not evidence for what you guys are claiming. 

I don't know...

 

We had a QB who fits our coach's offensive scheme perfectly. That alone in this league can lead to 8.5 wins per season over a 2-year stretch. I don't think it's improbably to hover around .500 for 2 straight seasons despite some front office issues and dysfunction at all. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

29 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

What you've been dreaming of since coming to this board?

 

Not true...but if you tell me that firing him would get Kirk signed and a free agency shopping spree; then I would do it.

[Riggo#44]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Bruce reminding Scot drill is conjecture from Mike Jones.  And I don't get the vibe that Scot is arrogant where he needs to be humbled by Bruce or anyone else.  Jones added more fuel to the fire on the Junkies this morning suggesting that Bruce is jealous that Scot gets too much credit for the team's turnaround and Bruce thinks he deserves credit for it as part of the pie.  Maybe so.  That's conjecture, too. 

 

 

And this totally ignores that Allen was the one who lobbied and fought to bring McCloughan in in the 1st place!

My problem isn't the negativity. That's fine, but give a balanced view. He goes and rants about all the "missteps" this off-season, that aren't really missteps. What, were we supposed to stop McVay from going to the Rams? What was Pleasant asking for? You think he might have been more inclined to go work for Wade Phillips? Not to mention--the "offseason" is a couple of weeks old.

 

Then he goes on the rant about negotiating with free agents--and the acknowledges that most teams really start free agency around the combine at the end of the month. He completely ignores anything positive this team has done, including an obscene amount of cap space and 9 picks, overreacts to 2 "slowly developing" drafts, now, today, says Allen is jealous. Allen, who said that he'll improve whatever it takes to improve the team, including himself.

 

He might be right, this team has done very little to earn the benefit of the doubt. But there are a lot of holes and points ignored for his platform. Jones goes overly sensational on it--goes to 106.7 whose whole platform is overly sensational negativism. He didn't report the facts, he reported what he wanted to report to make his story. Jason Reid did the exact same thing. Exact. Was a good just-the-facts beat reporter, and then went off the deep end with every sort of OMG LOLZ reaction he could. 

[Peregrine]

Based on the conversations that have been posted on here with a couple that have met him, its a good think to keep him from talking to media, because hes just too open about things.  Im not sure I put too much stock on the unverified reports coming out of what has been Fort Knox for the past couple of years.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Based on the conversations that have been posted on here with a couple that have met him, its a good think to keep him from talking to media, because hes just too open about things.  Im not sure I put too much stock on the unverified reports coming out of what has been Fort Knox for the past couple of years.

 

To my eyes it could be that simple.   Scot comes off very open -- clear to me that's just his personality.  IMO that skill likely serves him well in assessing personnel via his one on one conversations with prospects -- he's a super cool guy, he opens up, so they open in kind.  He has that type of personality IMO.  Bruce on the other hand comes off like the consummate politician -- skilled at dodging questions and spinning if need be.  So I think this situation is likely something as simple as they are more comfortable with Scot doing what he's best at which is personnel and allow Bruce do what he's good at it which is the PR side of this all.   And Mike Jones is putting a nefarious label on it for whatever reason.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Not true...but if you tell me that firing him would get Kirk signed and a free agency shopping spree; then I would do it.

 

Because free agent spending sprees have worked so well the last 25 yrs. I can't believe there are any redskins fans of more than 5 yrs that think a FA spending spree is a good thing. They rarely ever work out.

 

Before you bring up the Giants, they did fix their D but at the expense of the off which is now ****. BTW: Their offence played the 29th ranked defensive schedule. And they still were horrible.

[TSO]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:03 PM, HOF44 said:

I hate to say it but I lean more toward Birdies opinion.  Snyder just reminds me of the Scorpion and the Frog.

 

 

I know the scorpion and frog story, lol. 

 

Listen, guys I'm debating on this like @TD_washingtonredskins know me. The last thing I will do is downplay Snyder's role in the organizational failures of the past. I've always acknowledged that he's a concern, there's no doubt about it, and that though he's often shrouded in mystery operating behind the scenes, the results - along with what has come out from many ex coaches and players - are enough to know he was the root of the issues. Never mind the simple principle of "it starts at the top" and his hires consistently failing being a direct reflection of his own hiring process and organizational skills. 

 

 

But you guys are reaching here. It's that simple. You might end up right, but it's not because you've got anything other than some contradictory clinging to the past and a willingness to buy the worst of speculation. 

 

On 2/10/2017 at 2:02 PM, TK said:

I need to see you in my office. And bring your Playbook. 

 

Mod Nazi-Snyder-Cronies won't let anyone tell the truth!!!

 

On 2/10/2017 at 2:08 PM, Birdlives said:

 

Dude, whatever. Your point of view is just as speculative and is based on just as much fact as mine. Oh, wait, that's right, I have 15 years of history of this franchise and the way Snyder has run it. You've got 2 years that might already be falling apart. More than 1/2 of "these figures" have been here for a ton of the dysfunction. Allen and Snyder run this team, run football people out of town, and are responsible for current issues as well.

 

-Good thing you can admit when you know as little as everyone else while pretending you have a leg to stand on.

 

No, it's not. Recent history always outweighs the past. And that's on my side. Allen wasn't here for a lot of organizational dysfunction of those "15 years". So you're wrong there, too, unsurprisingly. 

 

- You're incredibly annoying and don't know how to carry a rational discussion without being insulting. 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, drowland said:

I kinda remember you being one of the bigger Snyderrato apologists on this board.  

 

Sure, I was quite the homer at times, no doubt. Though I feel like I always tried to be balanced. But have you seen my posts since 2012? Or are you only remembering what you want? I mean, the last thing you can do is call me a Snyder apologist for the last 4 years, yet you're going back ten years? 

 

Give me a break. 

 

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I don't know...

 

We had a QB who fits our coach's offensive scheme perfectly. That alone in this league can lead to 8.5 wins per season over a 2-year stretch. I don't think it's improbably to hover around .500 for 2 straight seasons despite some front office issues and dysfunction at all. 

 

And we arrived there with said QB because Scot was able to make that decision, like his job requires. Right? 

[bird_1972]

5 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I can't believe this is even a discussion.

 

Me neither. I'm hoping all of the chatter about this is just that. But then I see articles like this and I get very discouraged: 

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/02/10/jealousy-partially-to-blame-for-bruce-allen-muzzling-scot-mccloughan/

 

Hope this isn't a case of "where there is smoke, there is fire"...

[clskinsfan]

19 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

It's the lowest hanging fruit in the world. Nothing going g on? Find a way to blame Snyder. A couple teammates bickering? Blame Snyder. Healthy disagreement between execs? Blame Snyder. People put in position to do specific tasks, but fail? Snyder must have interfered.

 

Nothing is coincidence. Everything is a conspiracy. Same old nonsense.

 

 

 

In fairness. The team was a **** show under Snyder for 20 years before he decided to sign a real GM. He could easily fire that GM and become a **** show again. Would that really surprise you?

[Mr. Sinister]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

In fairness. The team was a **** show under Snyder for 20 years before he decided to sign a real GM. He could easily fire that GM and become a **** show again. Would that really surprise you?

 

No, and I get the angst. But I've long now held back the tar and feathers in the absence of real evidence. It's just lazy and tired. But it will always be the go to option for fans and media alike.

[JSSkinz]

I'm not sure I buy into the jealousy gossip but I can also see the front office feeling uneasy.

 

I don't see any offensive players signing with us if we let KC go and I don't see the team being able to focus on free agency until KC is signed, they better get going because time is running out.

[skinzplay]

Mike Jones hasn't been one to stir stuff just for the sake of it. Though I'm no fan of the Post in general, I think those putting Jones' face on the dartboard might be a bit rash. He reports what hears from credible sources. He has no ax to grind like JReid, who takes a shot every chance he gets.

 

Never been a fan of Allen's hire in any capacity for the Skins. He has a legacy last name, and that's the extent of anything he brings to the table for this team. We were not four or five players away from a SB when McCloughan was brought in. Building a team - and a team identity - takes time. I, for one, am willing to give him time to do that. Of course I don't sign the paychecks in Ashburn, nor do I take credit for the success and then vanish when my suggestions/decisions completely fall apart (hello Bruce). Every GM has as many misses as hits; there aren't many Beathards and Wolfs out there. Some unfortunate and freak injuries have really hurt McCloughan's track record, especially with the secondary. Eager to see how he handles this off-season in terms of the draft and free agency.

[Birdlives]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

I know the scorpion and frog story, lol. 

 

Listen, guys I'm debating on this like @TD_washingtonredskins know me. The last thing I will do is downplay Snyder's role in the organizational failures of the past. I've always acknowledged that he's a concern, there's no doubt about it, and that though he's often shrouded in mystery operating behind the scenes, the results - along with what has come out from many ex coaches and players - are enough to know he was the root of the issues. Never mind the simple principle of "it starts at the top" and his hires consistently failing being a direct reflection of his own hiring process and organizational skills. 

 

 

But you guys are reaching here. It's that simple. You might end up right, but it's not because you've got anything other than some contradictory clinging to the past and a willingness to buy the worst of speculation. 

 

Mod Nazi-Snyder-Cronies won't let anyone tell the truth!!!

 

No, it's not. Recent history always outweighs the past. And that's on my side. Allen wasn't here for a lot of organizational dysfunction of those "15 years". So you're wrong there, too, unsurprisingly. 

 

- You're incredibly annoying and don't know how to carry a rational discussion without being insulting. 

 

 

Right back atcha slick. You started the insults, not me.

 

And Allen was here for the most recent SalaryCapPenalty/Griffin/McNabb stuff which is easily as bad as anything Vinny did. After all, recent history.

[Jumbo]

you're all stupid and ugly and need to wash that ass

[Birdlives]

13 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

you're all stupid and ugly and need to wash that ass

 

Do we still have a captain obvious emoticon?

 

Also, apologies; this should have gone to pm about 2 pages ago. I relent.

[goskins10]

10 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

 

 

And Allen was here for the most recent SalaryCapPenalty/Griffin/McNabb stuff which is easily as bad as anything Vinny did. After all, recent history.

 

MS had roster control of the team, at least that's what he told everyone. So if he was forced to take McNabb or Griffin, that's on him. The griffin trade didn't work out, but while I was not in favor of it, it was not nearly as bad as the decade or more of the really stupid Vinnie free agent signings.

 

The cap penalty thing was total bull**** and you know it. It was an uncapped year so they took a shot to get out the terrible contracts from Vinnie - specifically Haynesworth and Hall. - which BTW cost Snyder a lot of money that he gladly paid - something people seem to forget. Bruce was brought here as much as anything to handle the cap which he did. The contracts being sighed now do not leave the team with big dead cap. And don't say it's someone else. Things changed in terms of poor contracts once Bruce got here. Did he still make some mistakes? Of course. Please show me the GM or team President that hasn't made their fair share.

 

Also, the one draft he was responsible for - 2014 - despite some of the complaining when it happened, it turned out to be a pretty good draft, one of the better drafts in a few years. But people just have no patience.

 

In the end, to call the Bruce Allen years as "easily as bad as anything Vinnie did" has no basis in fact.

 

[TK]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Mod Nazi-Snyder-Cronies won't let anyone tell the truth!!!

 

 

[TK]

3 hours ago, jphilly said:

You're an Iggle phan. On a Redskins board. So obviously it needs to explained slowly to you. 

 

On

 

here

 

we

 

do

 

the

 

laughing

 

at

 

you. 

 

[Birdlives]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

MS had roster control of the team, at least that's what he told everyone. So if he was forced to take McNabb or Griffin, that's on him. The griffin trade didn't work out, but while I was not in favor of it, it was not nearly as bad as the decade or more of the really stupid Vinnie free agent signings.

 

The cap penalty thing was total bull**** and you know it. It was an uncapped year so they took a shot to get out the terrible contracts from Vinnie - specifically Haynesworth and Hall. - which BTW cost Snyder a lot of money that he gladly paid - something people seem to forget. Bruce was brought here as much as anything to handle the cap which he did. The contracts being sighed now do not leave the team with big dead cap. And don't say it's someone else. Things changed in terms of poor contracts once Bruce got here. Did he still make some mistakes? Of course. Please show me the GM or team President that hasn't made their fair share.

 

Also, the one draft he was responsible for - 2014 - despite some of the complaining when it happened, it turned out to be a pretty good draft, one of the better drafts in a few years. But people just have no patience.

 

In the end, to call the Bruce Allen years as "easily as bad as anything Vinnie did" has no basis in fact.

 

 

Im not going to keep tussling on the subject because it's not productive, but at the time it was happening, Many people justified Vinny moves just as much as the current Allen stuff. Rationalizing is a gift and a curse.

 

The cap penalty was a bad gamble. They were warned ahead of time, they did it anyways. Was it bull****? Absolutely. Were they made aware that they would be sanctioned ahead of time? Absolutely. They gambled and lost. I put everything under Shanahan firmly on all 3- Allen/ShanahanSnyder. That regime ended just 2 years ago. I doubt any one person was solely responsible no matter how much Mike Shanahan wants us to believe he was just along for the ride.

 

Look, (and this is a thread point, not just meant for you) I get where people are coming from. I really do. This is another hit piece in a long line of hit pieces. That doesn't diminish the fact that we're hearing there's strife. If there wasn't, we wouldn't be seeing all the various sources pointing it out. Not just this article. I've already conceded it may just be frustration on the part of the various press and radio sources lacking real information. It may be click bait. I concede that maybe Scot even wanted this (I doubt it because it wouldn't have been leaked that this happened) But until we see real change, sustained change, not just 17 wins In 2 years,  but 10-12 win seasons consistently, I'm concerned. That's it, just concerned. Sorry if people feel differently, but I've seen this story play out too many times. "This time will be different." It's like a mantra. Sorry this escalated to where it did. 

 

That being said, some of us reserve the right to be disdainful, sour, pissy, and downright negative when it comes the this team. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Because free agent spending sprees have worked so well the last 25 yrs. I can't believe there are any redskins fans of more than 5 yrs that think a FA spending spree is a good thing. They rarely ever work out.

 

Before you bring up the Giants, they did fix their D but at the expense of the off which is now ****. BTW: Their offence played the 29th ranked defensive schedule. And they still were horrible.

 

A shopping spree can work if done right....and it helps if you have a QB.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

 

Im not going to keep tussling on the subject because it's not productive, but at the time it was happening, Many people justified Vinny moves just as much as the current Allen stuff. Rationalizing is a gift and a curse.

 

The cap penalty was a bad gamble. They were warned ahead of time, they did it anyways. Was it bull****? Absolutely. Were they made aware that they would be sanctioned ahead of time? Absolutely. They gambled and lost. I put everything under Shanahan firmly on all 3- Allen/Shanahan/Snyder. That regime ended just 2 years ago. I doubt any one person was solely responsible no matter how much Mike Shanahan wants us to believe he was just along for the ride.

 

Look, (and this is a thread point, not just meant for you) I get where people are coming from. I really do. This is another hit piece in a long line of hit pieces. That doesn't diminish the fact that we're hearing there's strife. If there wasn't, we wouldn't be seeing all the various sources pointing it out. Not just this article. I've already conceded it may just be frustration on the part of the various press and radio sources lacking real information. It may be click bait. I concede that maybe Scot even wanted this (I doubt it because it wouldn't have been leaked that this happened) But until we see real change, sustained change, not just 17 wins In 2 years,  but 10-12 win seasons consistently, I'm concerned. That's it, just concerned. Sorry if people feel differently, but I've seen this story play out too many times. "This time will be different." It's like a mantra. Sorry this escalated to where it did. 

 

edit

 

Fair enough on most of it. I even agree with some of it.

 

Just a few things - I did not provide rationalization. I provided facts. In fact, the CAP problems are just not there, unlike we had with Vinnie. The team had over $60M in CAP space! When did that ever happen? Fact, the drafts since Bruce got here are better - and yes that includes shannahan. Again, as much as MS sucked in many ways, he also did some good things. His drafts may have not been great (I think he took too many chances on long shots and injured guys, but that's just me) but they were a step up from the Vinnie drafts. Was Robert his idea? Not sure we will ever know the full truth. But I can but it being pushed hard by Dan. But I still say that's at least some on MS since he was supposed to have full control of the roster. Fact - Bruce has not brought in nearly the number of high paid FAs that Vinnie did. Those are not rationalizations. It's just a plain fact things were much worse with Vinnie at the helm. There is just no disputing that.  

 

As for the CAP, yes they took a gamble and lost. But they really didn't lose that much if you think about it. Not saying they should have done it. But the team was going to be in CAP hell anyway. If they did nothing, they would have been strapped by those 2 contracts. Virtually the same result. You can even make an argument that they cleared the CAP hell faster - 2 yrs - as opposed to doing nothing and letting the contracts run out. Just a thought.

 

BTW - I never liked Vinnie and was mostly pissed at Dan Snyder most of that time too. They both deserved it. It was like 2 kids playing Madden (no offense to kids playing Madden, just a reference )  But I think Dan deserves to also get credit for trying to change and get football people in place. And Bruce has done at least a decent job. While it's been slow, the team is showing real signs of what can be sustained success. Having said that, I do agree a few 10+ win season would make me feel a lot better too.

 

Maybe I am too quick to forgive. Honestly it's as much to keep sane as anything else.

11 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

A shopping spree can work if done right....and it helps if you have a QB.

 

But it can also be a total disaster even if done what looks like is right. How many times did we win the offseason only to be in last place yet again? Not to mention you always over pay for FAs.

 

No thanks, Sorry, just not interested in testing those waters again. I am very happy with the present course of building the team through the draft with carefully placed FAs.

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Birdlives said:

Right back atcha slick. You started the insults, not me.

 

"Slick", woof, good one, you've insulted my honor! 

 

No, I didn't actually. My first response to you exclusively focused on the points you were making. I wasn't condescending and even said I'd be there right along with you if any of this turned out to be true: 

 

Then you came back with some bs about: 

 

"My god, just cut to the chase. This is a whole bunch of 'well, that's just like your opinion man.' "

 

I completely ignored that even though I should've went off about how ignorant that is. You want bite size responses? Stick to twitter. Don't complain about it here. 

 

Now, unless you want to claim that disagreeing with you is insulting itself, then you're wrong. I didn't insult you. The worst I said is that I'm not concerning myself with paranoid delusions. Everything I said was directed at your points, and others responded just fine to the same posts whereas you decided to get ugly. 

 

Every one of your posts after that started with some cute one liner like "Dude, whatever" or "Right back atcha Slick" that has you thinking you're brilliant or something. Stop with that bull****, it's not gonna slide.