The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[purbeast]

2 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Jordan Reed is one of the highest paid TEs, Trent Williams one of highest paid LTs

And hopefully KC is one of the highest paid QB's otherwise we go back into QB carousel like we have the past 25 years.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

8 hours ago, Pick6 said:

 

This is the problem, Cousins has the leverage here. There is no trade value. Teams know the Skins are kind of stuck. Why would a team give up a high draft pick for a guy that will hit the market in some way next year?

 

Also, I am not in the group that believes this is just going to take awhile. They had a chance last year. They have had opportunities this year. Everyone can play nice on interviews and podcast, but I don't believe this team will matchup on a deal. I need to see pen to paper and hope I eat crow on this.

I think there is plenty of trade value for Kirk. No doubt about we can get multiple picks for him. At least a first plus some more. Why? Because there aren't ANY guys with kirks skill level available., and u secure him now for this year changing your franchise overnight.

 

Its just our FO has too much pride and can't get outta the way of their own ego, and get a deal done, be it by trade or by contract LTD.

[CommanderDOOM]

20 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

And ever single one of then could be RGIII, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Nick Foles, Matt Leinart, John Beck, ect. in 3 years.

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

[purbeast]

15 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

I'm sorry but the Redskins don't have the best offensive talent by any shot.  They have arguably the worst running game in the NFL, that simply negates any talk about best offensive talent around him.

 

KC is already GUARANTEED $24 million on the franchise tag this year.  That's already guaranteed and official for 1 year.  His value to the Redskins is $24 million for a year. 

 

How is him wanting a long term deal that averages $24 million a year being greedy?  Some of you guys simply do not understand basic math and economics here.

[markmills67]

Anyway fellow Skin's there is only 83 more days until D-Day(Cousins last day for a LTD). I for one am going to find it difficult waiting so long myself , what about you lot?. 

 

Just sign the man to a LTD and quick.

 

HTTR 

[CommanderDOOM]

@purbeast We ranked higher in yards than attempts. Top 10 in ypa. You could say we called the worst running game but to say we had it is dumb.

 

He's being greedy because the team has already showed faith and overpaid him once. They are willing to pay him elite $$ but he wants the most $$. I doubt he only wants 24 per.

[purbeast]

6 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

@purbeast We ranked higher in yards than attempts. Top 10 in ypa. You could say we called the worst running game but to say we had it is dumb.

 

He's being greedy because the team has already showed faith and overpaid him once. They are willing to pay him elite $$ but he wants the most $$. I doubt he only wants 24 per.

It's not "overpaying" if it is market value.  The team hasn't showed any faith I'm not sure what you are referring to. You can doubt it all you want but most people in the know have said anything averaging around 24 mil a year + good guaranteed will get the deal done.  But the reality is we have no clue other than reports are that the Redskins haven't even come close to a LTD worth $24mil/yr.

[Skinsinparadise]

Gibbs Hog Heaven you might be the last hope, try to corral Kirk when he's in Liverpool, take him to an LFC game, take him to the Cavern, Beatles Museum and woo him old school style the way Danny used to do it when he wanted someone. 

 

Kirk Cousins‏Verified account @KirkCousins8  Mar 22

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Excited to see the @NFL fans in the UK again! I'm equally excited to brush up on my British vocabulary #brilliant

 

 

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

 

 

Um, No offense, but what did Foles do in his second year with Chip Kelly? You know the year after Chip Kelly came into the league with a offense that no one in the NFL had seen and had to adjust to?

 

Oh yeah. It was pretty terrible. And they year after that? New team.

And so was the coach. NFL had a year to catch up to a new Offense, and it got exposed for that it was. And so did the QB.

 

 

Kirk got better in his 2nd year.

 

Your argument is invalid.

[wit33]

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Actually, I think you would get a lot of people that would argue against that. I think most people think he's a better QB that Andy, and the stats bear that out.

Cousins

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2012	24	WAS	qb	12	3	1	1-0-0	33	48	68.8	466	4	8.3	3	6.3	77	9.7	8.6	14.1	155.3	101.6	79	3	27	8.61	7.53	5.9	1	1	2
2013	25	WAS	qb	12	5	3	0-3-0	81	155	52.3	854	4	2.6	7	4.5	62	5.5	4.0	10.5	170.8	58.4	38.8	5	32	5.14	3.67	3.1			-2
2014	26	WAS	qb	8	6	5	1-4-0	126	204	61.8	1710	10	4.9	9	4.4	81	8.4	7.4	13.6	285.0	86.4	55.8	8	70	7.74	6.77	3.8			4
2015	27	WAS	QB	8	16	16	9-7-0	379	543	69.8	4166	29	5.3	11	2.0	78	7.7	7.8	11.0	260.4	101.6	71	26	186	6.99	7.14	4.6	2	3	12
2016*	28	WAS	QB	8	16	16	8-7-1	406	606	67.0	4917	25	4.1	12	2.0	80	8.1	8.0	12.1	307.3	97.2	71.7	23	190	7.52	7.45	3.7	4	4	15

 

Dalton

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2011*	24	CIN	QB	14	16	16	9-7-0	300	516	58.1	3398	20	3.9	13	2.5	84	6.6	6.2	11.3	212.4	80.4	53.1	24	160	6.00	5.65	4.4	4	4	11
2012	25	CIN	QB	14	16	16	10-6-0	329	528	62.3	3669	27	5.1	16	3.0	59	6.9	6.6	11.2	229.3	87.4	50.7	46	229	5.99	5.68	8.0	1	3	12
2013	26	CIN	QB	14	16	16	11-5-0	363	586	61.9	4293	33	5.6	20	3.4	82	7.3	6.9	11.8	268.3	88.8	58.3	29	182	6.68	6.29	4.7	0	3	14
2014*	27	CIN	QB	14	16	16	10-5-1	309	481	64.2	3398	19	4.0	17	3.5	81	7.1	6.3	11.0	212.4	83.5	53.1	21	124	6.52	5.75	4.2	4	3	11
2015	28	CIN	QB	14	13	13	10-3-0	255	386	66.1	3250	25	6.5	7	1.8	80	8.4	8.9	12.7	250.0	106.2	75.3	20	118	7.71	8.17	4.9	3	3	13
2016*	29	CIN	QB	14	16	16	6-9-1	364	563	64.7	4206	18	3.2	8	1.4	86	7.5	7.5	11.6	262.9	91.8	58.3	41	264	6.53	6.53	6.8	2	1	12

 

In my opinion, there stats are similar. admittedly though, I'm not too big on stats. Just by watching each, they appear to be in the same  category/level as far as starters in the league. 

 

A huge factor i will will point out again, is Kirk may still have untapped potential and room to grow.  

 

Arguments for both sides can be made at this point in their careers. 

[petedaddy]

13 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

 

this is silly on so many levels that i wish i wouldn't have read it

[markshark84]

13 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made.

 

If you can't see the difference between Kirk and Foles --- you're blind. 

 

If you think we have "arguably" the best offensive line talent when Reed is playing --- you're blind.

 

If the FO can't get Cousins signed and still get him the support he needs with the current roster, the draft and role players via FA; while factoring in the annual rise in salary cap --- then the FO is not doing their job.

 

End of story.

[Peregrine]

14 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

Hahahahaha, good one.  *wipes tear*  Oh man, almost had me...

[TheGreek1973]

14 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

What exactly do your "eyes" see that says KC is Foles.  First is KC in a gimmick offense?  Because that is the offense Foles actually did well.  Does KC have a running back like Foles had?  Did Foles do it two years in a row getting consistently better and with a pathetic D as we have?  KC has all day to throw?  Seriously?  It has nothing to do with his quick release and pocket awareness?  Did Foles have his RG and Center go down in the both starting years?  

 

This is the type of logic KC doubters/haters put on the table and makes the rest of us wonder what QB we are actually talking about here.  LOL  Lets throw mud and see if it sticks.  

[WelshSkinsFan]

18 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

I don't buy the notion that a team who might need a QB would say to them selves "Let's just wait until next year."   There is no time for coaches and GMs to wait, their jobs are on the line at all times. Plus, if you want him and wait a year, you run the risk of him going to another team.  There is urgency in the NFL and I don't buy the thinking that he has no trade value because he hits free agency next year.

 

I agree with your logic in terms of those saying the 49ers are going to wait a year are wrong, nothing is guaranteed and Lynch and Shanahan will want their solution in the building this year.  The issue as regards his trade value though is regarding teams we could trade him to.  The reports so far, and this may change before the draft, state that the 49ers are not interested in giving up high picks or multiple picks in a trade and they are the only team Kirk has shown interest in signing with on a LTD.  The Browns have the picks but if it is true that Kirk won't negotiate a LTD with them then they would be buying a one year rental at $24 million and in that case they are not going to give us much more than the 3rd round comp pick we would get for him next year.

 

If Shanahan decides after pro days and team visits that the answer is not there in the draft then maybe the 49ers decide they have to get Kirk now and offer us a deal that will blow us away but as of right now that is not happening.  I am happy to keep Kirk on the tag if we are not being offered an amazing deal, at this point there is nobody left to spend his tag money on in FA and he is the best QB in the building.  If we only get a 3rd rounder next year then so what?  If all we can get now is a late 2nd or a 3rd rounder from a team that wants to rent him for a year we are better off standing pat and maybe something happens this season to break the deadlock.  If we get to the Superbowl or even win a playoff game or two then everyone involved might feel a lot more like finding common ground and if not we can still use the transition tag if Kirk proves he is irreplaceable.

[Veryoldschool]

It's 3/24 and the latest annoying, pointless, stupid, bound to end badly Daniel Snyder drama continues.  Competent ownership would have extended their franchise QB  a couple of months ago in a joyous, celebratory lovefest.  We'd all be feeling great and excited about the FA, the draft and longing for some football and the good times to come.  In an alternate universe maybe there is a secure, grounded, affable Redskin owner who has football people run his successful team while he lavishes his grateful fans with goodwill and charm.  Not in our world, not with Snyder, with him it's always negative and ugly feelings and suspicions.  

 

It can never remain nice.  The summer of 2016 might have been my best Redskin fan experience since Snyder took over.  It was calm, peaceful and positive.  I remember starting a thread about how the summer was drama free and that the Skins were finally starting to take on the orderliness of a successful franchise.  

 

Daniel Snyder doesn't want to be the San Antonio Spurs of the NFL and quietly win like Kirk Cousins.  We know that because whenever the Skins start to have some modest success Snyder sabotages it.  The acrimony begins followed by the musical chairs.  Cousins may have sealed his fate with Snyder when he defined success as being the Spurs of the NFL and the appreciative Spurs sent Cousins a jersey.  Any rational owner would love to be the Spurs of the NFL but not Snyder.

[ThomasRoane]

6 hours ago, petedaddy said:

 

this is silly on so many levels that i wish i wouldn't have read it

 

Yeah, the Foles comparison means that he ran out of any ideas and instead of admitting defeat he throws out something akin to "your mama!"

[CommanderDOOM]

6 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Yeah, the Foles comparison means that he ran out of any ideas and instead of admitting defeat he throws out something akin to "your mama!"

Why don't you go MARRY Kirk Cousins then!

[Morneblade]

9 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Yeah, the Foles comparison means that he ran out of any ideas and instead of admitting defeat he throws out something akin to "your mama!"

 

1 minute ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Why don't you go MARRY Kirk Cousins then!

 

Well, there it is.

[Llevron]

Yall really shouldn't argue among yourselves about this. The only 1 guy (maybe 2?) who matters in this is a complete idiot and is prone to breaking all of our hearts. Just let the hopelessness consume you and learn you enjoy the darkness. 

 

Kirk can be the man all he wants. It wont work out because its the Redskins and the Redskins hate you. 

 

There. I hope I made your day. 

 

*sobs* 

[bobandweave]

20 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Kirk could also be Foles. Foles once threw close to 30 tds to 2 ints. He was in a great situation...like Kirk has been. My eyes say Kirk is nothing special. All day to throw with arguably the best offensive talent around him when Reed was on the field. Continuity is one thing but could we win it all with the depletion of everything around Kirk. The FO doesn't think so is why they are holding out for a reasonable contract that pays someone who is 'maybe' top 10 at his position the most $$ anyone has ever made. Kirk doesn't want to be here or he is greedy AF. That's why he holds the feet of the team that drafted him (and made him the starter over everyone's golden child) over the fire. Wouldn't blame the FO at all for trading him. It might appear to them he cares nothing about the other 52 but is looking out for his future rival QBs???

 

About the talent around him last year reminded me of those stacked wizards teams that couldn't get over the hump either

 

with that said be careful how you view KC, he's only started two full seasons. He can most definitely get better we don't know how much better but he can get better and that o line is in tact. His receivers can be replaced and at least to my eye he shows a personality that will work hard to get better. Will he? Unknown that's why he wants to see a commitment that we believe he will. He's not showing me Ryan leaf as a man. If he improves that contact like all the ones before him will look like a fair to good contact even at his number

[mistertim]

20 hours ago, purbeast said:

I'm sorry but the Redskins don't have the best offensive talent by any shot.  They have arguably the worst running game in the NFL, that simply negates any talk about best offensive talent around him.

 

We were 20th in rush yards per game and 9th in yards per attempt. Did we have a good running game? Not especially. Did we have the worst in the league? Not at all. That is pure hyperbole on your part. I think one of the main reasons we were 20th in yards per game is because we had an OC and HC who were very pass happy and got away from the run game way too quickly instead of adjusting if it wasn't working. The YPA was top 10.

[petedaddy]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Why don't you go MARRY Kirk Cousins then!

 

now that is funny!

[Bang]

Offense is a sum of it's parts. Thus the endless circular chicken and egg arguments over whether Joe Montana would be great without Jerry rice and vice versa... etc. etc. etc.

Cousins didn't have "all day" to throw.

He didn't need it, because he made his read and got the ball out on time, just a hair over 3 seconds. As i recall, he was among the league lead in the time it took to make a throw, but i'll be damned if i know where to find such a stat outside of paying Elias.

This is a QB comfortable in what he's doing and making the right reads. He knows where the ball needs to go, makes his decision and throws on time.

This makes an offensive line MUCH better. They're pretty good as it is, and that is no small factor as to why. The offense is designed to get receivers open quickly, and it does. In cousins running it, he has been highly efficient in both years he's run it, and this year he averaged over 300 yards per game, broke the team passing yardage record, and while we'd have liked to have seen better red zone playcalling, he doubled his TD to INT. Mental errors were few and far between.

 

If Cousins is a "system quarterback", it seems he's in the right system to me.

Greed doesn't really factor into the life of a professional player. the team's responsibility is to make sure they value their players properly, balancing young inexpensive draft talent with expensive veteran talent. Paying market rate for a Qb does not hamstring a team unless they do it to themselves. Because it all starts and ends with quarterbacks, they are an absolute necessity to success, and those who can achieve that success are extremely rare. 

The run game is alright, but if you're waiting for Gruden to grind it out on the ground, you be better off to spend some time reading up on his entire tenure as an NFL coach. The West Coast offense is not a ground game offense, and his version especially so.

 

~Bang

[Cooleyfan1993]

Well, if it doesn't work out with signing Kirk here, we can always draft his son in 20 years?