The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[PartyPosse]

Bottom line is that if either Cousins doesn't want to be here or the redskins FO don't see him as the answer then it would be best to move on. We, as fans, can argue the pros and cons all day long but it really boils down to the fact that both parties running this show need to acknowledge that they see Kirk in a Redskins uniform down the road in order for him to sign. While I am still in the camp that he's not worth the money and I don't think he's as good as advertised, I would rather he sign long term and be part of an established core solely because I don't want to have to go through this circus again next offseason, or the next...

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

We were 20th in rush yards per game and 9th in yards per attempt. Did we have a good running game? Not especially. Did we have the worst in the league? Not at all. That is pure hyperbole on your part. I think one of the main reasons we were 20th in yards per game is because we had an OC and HC who were very pass happy and got away from the run game way too quickly instead of adjusting if it wasn't working. The YPA was top 10.

 

 

Truth. I'd like to see LG upgraded but I'd really like to see us stick to the run more. I like Fat Rob, and I'd like to see Mack Brown more.

[Veryoldschool]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

Offense is a sum of it's parts. Thus the endless circular chicken and egg arguments over whether Joe Montana would be great without Jerry rice and vice versa... etc. etc. etc.

Cousins didn't have "all day" to throw.

He didn't need it, because he made his read and got the ball out on time, just a hair over 3 seconds. As i recall, he was among the league lead in the time it took to make a throw, but i'll be damned if i know where to find such a stat outside of paying Elias.

This is a QB comfortable in what he's doing and making the right reads. He knows where the ball needs to go, makes his decision and throws on time.

This makes an offensive line MUCH better. They're pretty good as it is, and that is no small factor as to why. The offense is designed to get receivers open quickly, and it does. In cousins running it, he has been highly efficient in both years he's run it, and this year he averaged over 300 yards per game, broke the team passing yardage record, and while we'd have liked to have seen better red zone playcalling, he doubled his TD to INT. Mental errors were few and far between.

 

If Cousins is a "system quarterback", it seems he's in the right system to me.

Greed doesn't really factor into the life of a professional player. the team's responsibility is to make sure they value their players properly, balancing young inexpensive draft talent with expensive veteran talent. Paying market rate for a Qb does not hamstring a team unless they do it to themselves. Because it all starts and ends with quarterbacks, they are an absolute necessity to success, and those who can achieve that success are extremely rare. 

The run game is alright, but if you're waiting for Gruden to grind it out on the ground, you be better off to spend some time reading up on his entire tenure as an NFL coach. The West Coast offense is not a ground game offense, and his version especially so.

 

~Bang

 

Washington's OL always looked better with Cousins playing for the reasons you cited.  The OL that was excoriated when Kirk's predecessor was starting and getting sacked was adequate once Cousins took over.  The run blocking still remains suspect in my eyes, they don't even try to run deep in the Redzone.

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Washington's OL always looked better with Cousins playing for the reasons you cited.  The OL that was excoriated when Kirk's predecessor was starting and getting sacked was adequate once Cousins took over.  The run blocking still remains suspect in my eyes, they don't even try to run deep in the Redzone.

 

 

Well, they have the past couple years, but it's been a disaster when they do. It's usually up to the RB to avoid the consistent penetration we give up. It's usually the same play, bring in the jumbo package and run up the middle. We're not physical at the point of attack, very conservative in play calling and we run the most obvious call out of the formation. Hopefully this will change drastically with Gruden back to calling plays.

[Veryoldschool]

6 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Well, they have the past couple years, but it's been a disaster when they do. It's usually up to the RB to avoid the consistent penetration we give up. It's usually the same play, bring in the jumbo package and run up the middle. We're not physical at the point of attack, very conservative in play calling and we run the most obvious call out of the formation. Hopefully this will change drastically with Gruden back to calling plays.

 

I have a much better feel for assessing the talent of individual skill players, especially  QBs, rather than OL.  Maybe it's the X's and O's or it could be the Jimmy & Joe's I don't know.  But I do think you need to believe you can do something before you accomplish something and the Skins don't they can run when it counts close the goal line.

[PartyPosse]

7 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Truth. I'd like to see LG upgraded but I'd really like to see us stick to the run more. I like Fat Rob, and I'd like to see Mack Brown more.

I'm hoping Keith Marshall is healthy and ready to go. Would be a great change of pace back to Kelly. Dude ran like a 4.30 40 at last year's combine.

[Morneblade]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm hoping Keith Marshall is healthy and ready to go. Would be a great change of pace back to Kelly. Dude ran like a 4.30 40 at last year's combine.

 

I was really high on Marshall last year too. I hope he can get, and stay healthy, but injuries have been a part of his career for several years now. At least this time it was not a knee. I'd love to see what he can do. He's not a scat back either, dude weighs 220 with that kind of speed. Fingers crossed.

[RyansRangers]

OL improvement is a direct result of Callahan. Kirk improvement is a direct result of Jordan Reed.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I guess add Tandler to the long list of reporters on the train that Kirk is back in 2017 but unlikely in 2018.  It just seems too odd for me that its so.

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-redskins-week-was-draft-talk-ihenacho-out

Could Miami's Kaaya be the Redskins' heir apparent at quarterback? I think that some Redskins fans have their fingers stuck in their ears and are yelling, “I can’t hear you” when it comes to the quarterback situation. The reality is that there is a very good chance that Kirk Cousins will be gone in 2018. Why wait until he’s gone to start developing his replacement? You can argue that Kaaya is not the guy but there has to be a plan.

[RedBeast]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I guess add Tandler to the long list of reporters on the train that Kirk is back in 2017 but unlikely in 2018.  It just seems too odd for me that its so.

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-redskins-week-was-draft-talk-ihenacho-out

Could Miami's Kaaya be the Redskins' heir apparent at quarterback? I think that some Redskins fans have their fingers stuck in their ears and are yelling, “I can’t hear you” when it comes to the quarterback situation. The reality is that there is a very good chance that Kirk Cousins will be gone in 2018. Why wait until he’s gone to start developing his replacement? You can argue that Kaaya is not the guy but there has to be a plan.

 

I was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago...

 

On 3/1/2017 at 8:06 AM, RedBeast said:

Thoughts on Brad Kaaya? 4th? 5th maybe? I think he should have stayed another year. He's a really great kid, from a strong family (son knows him very well) but definitely needs to grow and learn. Not very mobile, but has a great arm and can be quite accurate. We need to get some more horses in the barn IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RedBeast said:

 

I was thinking the same thing a few weeks ago...

 

 

I haven't really paid much attention to Kaaya, I noticed the negative rap is lack of arm strength and plays poorly in the clutch.  If they are drafting a QB I'd presume Kirk or Sudfeld is gone since they can't really keep 4.

 

[RedskinsInFebruary]

17 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Washington's OL always looked better with Cousins playing for the reasons you cited.  The OL that was excoriated when Kirk's predecessor was starting and getting sacked was adequate once Cousins took over.  The run blocking still remains suspect in my eyes, they don't even try to run deep in the Redzone.

 

Our OL didn't jell until RG3 was done.  And no one on the team could do anything remotely close to blocking up to that point except TW.  RG3 never had a chance.  Kirk has a far better sense of his surroundings, evasiveness, quicker release, etc. but the effect of Callahan, Sherf, the emergence of Moses, etc. can't be denied imo.

[Veryoldschool]

2 minutes ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

 

Our OL didn't jell until RG3 was done.  And no one on the team could do anything remotely close to blocking up to that point except TW.  RG3 never had a chance.  Kirk has a far better sense of his surroundings, evasiveness, quicker release, etc. but the effect of Callahan, Sherf, the emergence of Moses, etc. can't be denied imo.

Cousins always made the line look better in 2012-2014, as did McCoy.  RGIII had a chance too many chances but sadly no ability as Cleveland learned in 2016,

[RedBeast]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't really paid much attention to Kaaya, I noticed the negative rap is lack of arm strength and plays poorly in the clutch.  If they are drafting a QB I'd presume Kirk or Sudfeld is gone since they can't really keep 4.

 

 

Test/Dev option

[fjblair]

On 3/25/2017 at 9:07 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I guess add Tandler to the long list of reporters on the train that Kirk is back in 2017 but unlikely in 2018.  It just seems too odd for me that its so.

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-redskins-week-was-draft-talk-ihenacho-out

Could Miami's Kaaya be the Redskins' heir apparent at quarterback? I think that some Redskins fans have their fingers stuck in their ears and are yelling, “I can’t hear you” when it comes to the quarterback situation. The reality is that there is a very good chance that Kirk Cousins will be gone in 2018. Why wait until he’s gone to start developing his replacement? You can argue that Kaaya is not the guy but there has to be a plan.

There is a plan. It's the only plan despite all the breathless media and fan speculation. The Redskins will sign Cousins to a long term deal before July 15th. It's March. Everyone wants everything NOW or heads start exploding with rumor and "sources" and just plain fantasy. Fun to watch.

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, fjblair said:

There is a plan. It's the only plan despite all the breathless media and fan speculation. The Redskins will sign Cousins to a long term deal before July 15th. It's March. Everyone wants everything NOW or heads start exploding with rumor and "sources" and just plain fantasy. Fun to watch.

 

I think you're really overestimating the leadership of this team. 

[RedskinsInFebruary]

On 3/25/2017 at 1:18 PM, Veryoldschool said:

Cousins always made the line look better in 2012-2014, as did McCoy.  RGIII had a chance too many chances but sadly no ability as Cleveland learned in 2016,

 

I think it'd be difficult to make a case the line hasn't been vastly improved since Callahan, Sherff, Moses, etc., but ok.  "No ability," lol....  Definitely poor durability.

[Conn]

Just now, RedskinsInFebruary said:

 

I think it'd be difficult to make a case the line hasn't been vastly improved since Callahan, Sherff, Moses, etc., but ok.  "No ability," lol....

 

You're still sticking up for Griffin's ability as a QB? You realize in a QB-starved NFL Griffin is still a FA right now, right? He sucks. Outside of one magical year in a gimmick offense that had a short life-expectancy, he sucked here too. He undoubtedly makes life harder on an OL, and they always looked better as a unit with Cousins for a reason. 

[RedskinsInFebruary]

9 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

You're still sticking up for Griffin's ability as a QB? You realize in a QB-starved NFL Griffin is still a FA right now, right? He sucks. Outside of one magical year in a gimmick offense that had a short life-expectancy, he sucked here too. He undoubtedly makes life harder on an OL, and they always looked better as a unit with Cousins for a reason. 

 

I'm just glad we finally addressed our decades-long OL deficiencies. I think it's silly to believe there are QB's out there who wouldn't benefit from stronger OL play.  My original comment isn't far up if you want to respond to the possible reasons already listed why I think Cousins can work with a weaker OL. 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

 

I think it'd be difficult to make a case the line hasn't been vastly improved since Callahan, Sherff, Moses, etc., but ok.  "No ability," lol....  Definitely poor durability.

 

Would you believe me if I told you that our OWN OL players said RG3 made them move too much as he started to scramble right away and they got tired a lot quicker while trying to block for him? Well it is true. I forget who was on the radio couple of years ago but that is what was said by an OL palyer. So yes Kirk does make the OL look good by getting rid of the ball quicker and has more pocket awareness. 

[markmills67]

Could the lack of big name free-agent signings be that if and hopefully we sign Cousin's to a LTD we could take a $25m hit in 17 and 18? which means we don't have to backload his contract in later years. I think at the moment we could be around  $70m in cap space in 2018.

 

HTTR 

[Morneblade]

20 hours ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

 

I'm just glad we finally addressed our decades-long OL deficiencies. I think it's silly to believe there are QB's out there who wouldn't benefit from stronger OL play.  My original comment isn't far up if you want to respond to the possible reasons already listed why I think Cousins can work with a weaker OL. 

 

16 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Would you believe me if I told you that our OWN OL players said RG3 made them move too much as he started to scramble right away and they got tired a lot quicker while trying to block for him? Well it is true. I forget who was on the radio couple of years ago but that is what was said by an OL palyer. So yes Kirk does make the OL look good by getting rid of the ball quicker and has more pocket awareness. 

 

 

I think Cousins makes the line look better, and the line actually got better from a talent aspect, especially pass pro. What I don't like is that we still are not physical enough in run block, and especially short yardage.

[Rattlesnake88]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

 

I think Cousins makes the line look better, and the line actually got better from a talent aspect, especially pass pro. What I don't like is that we still are not physical enough in run block, and especially short yardage.

Agreed, and it is baffling considering how big our line is. Not to mention we have a converted guard playing center and a monster at right guard and left tackle. You would think these guys would be mauling people. I think Callahan has done wonders in the passgame but I feel like runblocking takes a certain attitude(one we are lacking). If you watch our team run the ball it seems like a slight delay before they hit their assignments, while you watch good run blocking teams explode forward in sync with the snap of the football. Sometimes even our exchanges between center to qb, and qb to rb just look hesitant and wonky. 

 

I know most yards comes from between the tackles, especially in short yardage situations. But maybe since we have bigger bodies out wide we can do more misdirection and pulling. 

[TheGreat8s]

On 3/26/2017 at 0:35 PM, fjblair said:

There is a plan. It's the only plan despite all the breathless media and fan speculation. The Redskins will sign Cousins to a long term deal before July 15th. It's March. Everyone wants everything NOW or heads start exploding with rumor and "sources" and just plain fantasy. Fun to watch.

 

I think people are freaking because of how long it's taking. It could not be any clearer that this is the QB for us, the one that gives us the best shot at being a contender in this league. Not many teams can say that, hell we haven't been able to say that for what, 10+ years? We've been in this endless QB carousel for years, never being able to stick with any one guy that long. So yeah, people want to rush and sign him longterm. Lock him up now before he's gone and we realize how bad we needed him, setting us back years and leaving talents like Reed and Crowder wasting away. Let this be done so we can focus our attention on the defense which is the real area of concern

 

The guy was about 80 yards from 5,000 passing yards last year, there shouldn't be much doubt about his abilities at this point..

[purbeast]

After hearing Bruce's comments today, I am really starting to lose hope that they are going to get a LTD done.  I don't care what he says at this point I pretty much don't buy anything.  I'll let his actions speak.  Chad Dukes had a very good take on it IMO.  It does seem like at this point Bruce Allen just wants to "win" and if they pay him market value, they aren't "winning" the negotiations.