Per JLC on Twitter, Gruden getting rid of ENTIRE defensive staff

[PortisBetts]

Anyone else very happy that Gruden had the choice and he went out and cleaned house? It shows the philosophy goes straight through from the players to the coaching staff. Not performing? You will be replaced. Performance is all that matters. Everyone is accountable for their performance.

 

I am a big Gruden fan. He may have some issues still, ESPECIALLY clock/time management, but I think he is a big reason that this ship is headed in the right direction.

[Skinsinparadise]

John Keim ‏@john_keim  17s17 seconds ago

Will write this later, but will say it now: Redskins need more talent on D, regardless of who's coaching. Bad D was organizational failure

[goskins10]

16 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

 

I dont agree 100%. Yes, the talent level is definitely not there, but these guys were not in the right places a lot of times which led to the worst 3rd down % in the history of the league (Since it has been recorded). That is scheme. How many times on a 3rd and long did we see someone catch a pass with no one within 10 yards around them? This defense may be lacking talent, but the coaches couldn't even get the players to understand their roles, particularly the defensive backfield. So many busted coverage's. If the coaches were able to get the players to understand the scheme, then at the very minimum, they would not have been historically bad and there could have been an argument that the scheme was good, talent was ****. In this case, both scheme and talent sucked. Add on to that, the ability to teach seemed to be sorely lacking as no player really took a step up.

 

If someone comes in and gets these guys, at the very least, in the right position, you will see a nice change. No more 3rd down conversion nightmares.

Talent definitely needs to be upgraded though. ILB, Interior Dline, and safety. We need at least a starting caliber player at each position.

 

Sorry, but players were in position to make plays they just failed to make them. But honestly that's not really the point.

 

The point is, if they bring in a new DC and leave them with the current roster, they will not be successful either. Not saying it was a bad move to get rid of Barry - but just because they fired him first, does not mean Jay and Scot think it as all coaching. You pull th trigger now so the new DC can participate in the roster development.

 

I am pretty there were very few fans (here or  elsewhere), that though the Defensive problems were all the coaches or that it was all talent. The difference of opinion was around if it was more coaching problems or more due to bad personnel.

 

If they do not significantly upgrade the talent the new DC will be set up for failure. Having said that, I believe it's pretty clear they intend to work heavily on D. Should be a fun off-season.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

Anyone else very happy that Gruden had the choice and he went out and cleaned house? It shows the philosophy goes straight through from the players to the coaching staff. Not performing? You will be replaced. Performance is all that matters. Everyone is accountable for their performance.

 

I am a big Gruden fan. He may have some issues still, ESPECIALLY clock/time management, but I think he is a big reason that this ship is headed in the right direction.

 

Do we really know for sure that Gruden had the choice though? Or was it presented along the lines of "if you want to stake your job on Joe Barry. You go ahead"

[PortisBetts]

Just now, goskins10 said:

 

Sorry, but players were in position to make plays they just failed to make them. But honestly that's not really the point.

 

The point is, if they bring in a new DC and leave them with the current roster, they will not be successful either. Not saying it was a bad move to get rid of Barry - but just because they fired him first, does not mean Jay and Scot think it as all coaching. You pull th trigger now so the new DC can participate in the roster development.

 

I am pretty there were very few fans (here or  elsewhere), that though the Defensive problems were all the coaches or that it was all talent. The difference of opinion was around if it was more coaching problems or more due to bad personnel.

 

If they do not significantly upgrade the talent the new DC will be set up for failure. Having said that, I believe it's pretty clear they intend to work heavily on D. Should be a fun off-season.

Well, my second sentence said the talent level is definitely not there. So obviously I get that. But you are joking in terms of the fact that players were in position to make plays and just failed. There were so many times on 3rd down and short, they were playing off. How many times did Breeland play with the wrong leverage? How many times was a reciever streaking down the middle of the field on third and long? Or a back coming out of the backfield on third and long with not a defender in site? Or have a third and long and having the linebackers play sticks and defensive backs even further back?

 

The failings of this defense were just as much scheme as they were talent. Ill lean a little more towards talent being the bigger culprit as talent can cover ****ty scheme, but you cannot sit there with a straight face and say that the scheme was good.

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Do we really know for sure that Gruden had the choice though? Or was it presented along the lines of "if you want to stake your job on Joe Barry. You go ahead"

 

Isnt that a choice either way?

[Boss_Hogg]

Looks good on the surface and its a step in the right direction. But don't expect this defense to improve leaps and bounds in 2017. 

 

The next guy will have to make chicken salad out of chicken **** just like barry did. 

[HapHaszard]

Articles on the OP now posted in Bubba's Redskins Breaking News.

[PortisBetts]

1 minute ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Looks good on the surface and its a step in the right direction. But don't expect this defense to improve leaps and bounds in 2017. 

 

The next guy will have to make chicken salad out of chicken **** just like barry did. 

At least put some mayo in it or something. He just took the chicken **** and served it cold.

[TSO]

48 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

Anyone else very happy that Gruden had the choice and he went out and cleaned house? It shows the philosophy goes straight through from the players to the coaching staff. Not performing? You will be replaced. Performance is all that matters. Everyone is accountable for their performance.

 

I am a big Gruden fan. He may have some issues still, ESPECIALLY clock/time management, but I think he is a big reason that this ship is headed in the right direction.

 

Yup, as far as I'm concerned, this is the best thing about this (so long as it was Gruden's decision, which I have no reason to believe it wasn't). For me, it was never about Barry, or any of the other coaches... unfortunately people far too often corner you into a construct of their own minds they've made to make things simpler for themselves, so my defense of Barry or this coaching staff has, I'm sure, made me a "pro-Barry" guy in their minds (though I've always qualified my statements to avoid such labels). I've always attempted to be as nuanced as possible, but it might be too much to read for many.  

 

What has me excited about this is that it's about the desire to improve. I've said before that Barry = unknown in terms of how he'd handle better personnel whereas, if the team could find someone who they were sure would do well with better talent, then it's important for them to go that route and not just keep Barry for the sake of continuity.

 

Though, I'm not going to lie... a part of me wanted Barry to stay on since I'm convinced we're going to majorly upgrade the defensive personnel this offseason and I wanted to see certain posters look, uhm... you know. I'm an asshole like that.

 

Brewer made this argument better than I could (though I disagree with some of it and felt he was a little bit chaotic in terms of ideas posited) in his latest article here:

 

Quote

Joe Barry had to go. Not because the Washington Redskins are frustated. Not because a vocal contingent of the fan base had been barking about the defensive coordinator for months. Not just to try something new.

This decision is about taking the best route to building the best defense possible under the team’s current circumstances.

................................................................................................................

 

He had to go because, as the franchise prepares for its third year under General Manager Scot McCloughan and its fourth under Coach Jay Gruden, there can’t be as much tolerance for waiting and hoping. 

......................................................................................................................

 

The situation calls for a more proven coordinator.

 

.............................................................................................................................

 

When he hired Barry, Gruden was looking for an enthusiastic coach who had the energy and patience to teach young players. The on-field product looked awful, but Barry and his staff did some good things developing players. But now the job demands something different.

 

...........................................................................................................................................

 

Barry went in and did what he could with a mess. His defenses have been bad; his news conferences have been illogical. But he is not the worst defensive coordinator I have seen. What would he have been if he was ever handed a loaded defense? It is worth considering. But you don’t leave your crooked teeth in the hands of a general dentist who could be solid at orthodontics if provided the best tools. You find the best orthodontist available?

This decision wasn’t about fairness, blame or continuity. Those are merely complicated issues that cloud the most compelling factor as Washington evaluates the future of its most needy unit.

Certainty is what Gruden should be seeking. He is an offensive coach still learning to be the CEO of the entire team. He needs a head coach of the defense. He needs someone whose defensive system provides an edge that elevates the talent level. Most of Washington’s money always will go to the offense.

In the McCloughan/Gruden era, Washington has relied on patience and preferred continuity. But flawed continuity is useles. It was time for a change, even if firing Barry seems against the general value system of this rebuilding.

It was time for a change because the rebuild can’t stand for long on this shaky defensive foundation.

 

[LightningBuggs]

Plenty of established, successful DC's on the market.  No need for Skins to bother with an assistant from another team who hasn't gotten his feet wet yet.

 

And definitely no to anyone in-house like Manusky.  This system did not work and having anyone associated with it is too dangerous in that he might not make the wholesale schematic changes that are necessary.

 

I want to see aggressive, attacking defenses.  Not passive, reacting ones like we've had here for way too long.

[NewCliche21]

Jerry Brewer has been to DC media as GMSM has been to our team.  I absolutely love that guy.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

So far here are the names that people have floated (wishlist or media speculation)...broken into 2 tiers:

 

Never been a DC in NFL:

Mike Vrabel 

Lou Spanos
Steve Wilks

Kirk Olivadotti

Kirby Smart (not leaving UGA)

 

Have been a DC in the NFL:

Wade Phillips

Paul Guenther

Gregg Williams

Mike Pettine
Gus Bradley
Leslie Frazier
Greg Manusky

Rex Ryan

Mike Nolan (out of NFL last year...not by choice)

Mike Smith (most likely going to be Jags new HC or not leaving TB)

 

Bolded are guys I personally would be interested in.

[NewCliche21]

Just now, LightningBuggs said:

Plenty of established, successful DC's on the market.  No need for Skins to bother with an assistant from another team who hasn't gotten his feet wet yet.

 

And definitely no to anyone in-house like Manusky.  This system did not work and having anyone associated with it is too dangerous in that he might not make the wholesale schematic changes that are necessary.

 

I want to see aggressive, attacking defenses.  Not passive, reacting ones like we've had here for way too long.

 

1)  They're on the market because they weren't rehired.  They weren't rehired because their former teams didn't want them.  It's not like those who succeed go unemployed for very long.

 

2)  I'm not advocating for anyone in- or out-of-house (though I'm partial to Gregggggg), but this logic isn't holding a lot of water.  No head coach wasn't a coordinator (except for Zorn) wasn't a position coach wasn't an assistant position coach wasn't quality control.  They have their own minds, but they do what the boss says.  Barry had his ideas and could only do what his players could provide.  KO and Mandusky could only do what the players at their respective positions could provide to the extent that Barry said while working with other position coaches who were fired today as well.

 

TL;DR - Don't rule out in-house

[Reaper Skins]

1 hour ago, Capsman said:

Hard to know what we have in a lot of guys with Barry.  Let the new guy watch film and see what he feels he can work with and what's needed.  

I actually think this might work to our advantage.  Barry was big on "putting players in position to make a play".  Nothing really complex, just relying on putting the player in position and letting their talent make or break the play.

 

Should be ALOT of helpful game tape for new and old coaches to use this offseason.  Barry's defense was basic, but it will help us determine who isn't making plays because of physical limitations, where we need a talent upgrade, etc. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the appeal when hiring Barry originally.  Getting a baseline on in house talent so Scott knows what he has to work with.  His system lets you get an idea of who the playmakers are vs. guys who benefit from scheme.  If he was successful, all the better.  But even if he failed, we still have a better idea of how to best spend our cap space and draft picks in the offseason

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Looks good on the surface and its a step in the right direction. But don't expect this defense to improve leaps and bounds in 2017. 

 

The next guy will have to make chicken salad out of chicken **** just like barry did. 

 

Disagree.  Giants had a worse defense in 2015 than we did -- 3 FA signings and a 2nd year safety developing and they turned around.  We have more picks in 2017 and cap space than the Giants did in 2016 --  I think the defense will improve. But agree it will improve mostly because of defensive talent.

 

I am personally amused and interested in the d coordinator search but IMO its a minor deal in turning this defense around -- we need major upgrades.  But I am optimistic that the FO will pull that off.

[PartyPosse]

There's not enough talent on the D to bring in an unknown. I want someone with experience and knows how to coach up, especially since we're probably gonna have a ton of young, unproven players on the field. Fuller, Cravens, Speight, Breeze and the 15 players we're gonna end up drafting for defense. 

[Wildbunny]

22 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Should be a fun off-season.

Offseason Champs again!!! Woot!!

10 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Though, I'm not going to lie... a part of me wanted Barry to stay on since I'm convinced we're going to majorly upgrade the defensive personnel this offseason and I wanted to see certain posters look, uhm... you know. I'm an asshole like that.

I know what you mean, I'm alike. I would have love to see a thread like "Thanks for the crow Barry!"

 

7 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

So far here are the names that people have floated (wishlist or media speculation)...broken into 2 tiers:

 

Never been a DC in NFL:

Mike Vrabel 

Lou Spanos
Steve Wilks

Kirk Olivadotti

Kirby Smart (not leaving UGA)

 

Have been a DC in the NFL:

Wade Phillips

Paul Guenther

Gregg Williams

Mike Pettine
Gus Bradley
Leslie Frazier
Greg Manusky

Rex Ryan

Mike Nolan (out of NFL last year...not by choice)

Mike Smith (most likely going to be Jags new HC or not leaving TB)

 

Bolded are guys I personally would be interested in.

We know Jay loves Guenther, but he have to be fired byCincy first for us to offer him a job as it would be a lateral move no? And even with that, I'm concerned that his defenses plays dirty. Just like Williams, that's not my kind of football. I love hard, tough, nasty football, but not dirty.

 

And Bradley is overrated.

[skins4eva]

8 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

2)  (except for Zorn) 

 

I'm sorry (I feel a little like John Belushi in Animal House when he breaks that dude's guitar), but whenever I see his name, I just can't believe we hired him as our head coach.  The good ole maroon and black.  I mean what an idiot...

 

 

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Offseason Champs again!!! Woot!!

I know what you mean, I'm alike. I would have love to see a thread like "Thanks for the crow Barry!"

 

We know Jay loves Guenther, but he have to be fired byCincy first for us to offer him a job as it would be a lateral move no? And even with that, I'm concerned that his defenses plays dirty. Just like Williams, that's not my kind of football. I love hard, tough, nasty football, but not dirty.

 

And Bradley is overrated.

 

Dirty won us the second Eagles game lol or should I say Deshazor Everett.

[SWFLSkins]

19 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Jerry Brewer has been to DC media as GMSM has been to our team.  I absolutely love that guy.

Ashburning ‏@johnnylocal  2m2 minutes ago

Jerry Brewer has been to DC media as GMSM has been to our team. I absolutely love that guy. @JerryBrewer

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

Gus Bradley

 

For those that hammer Barry for having 2 bad years in Detroit -- I'd presume when you guys go through Bradley's record you'd have concerns.  His first 2 years as coordinator Seattle, they were near the bottom of the league in both points allowed and yards.  Then, talent upgraded followed by 2 good years in Seattle. Then things flamed out in Jax in epically bad fashion.

 

I know he's a cool name and you got me if he's a good coordinator or not.   But if I had to pick a coaching candidate that would give the Barry-stats stink people pause -- that guy would be Gus Bradley.

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/09/nfl-gus-bradley-jaguars-coach-job-security

GM David Caldwell has brought in enough talent over the last three years for the team to be competitive, and the results remain the same.

Year 4 under Bradley looks a lot like Year 1 under Bradley, especially on the defensive side of the ball. The Jaguars are still running the same vanilla defense that Bradley ran back in Seattle. The only problem being that Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor and Bobby Wagner didn’t follow him to Jacksonville.

[Commander -JB-]

47 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

 

Broncos defensive coordinator Wade Phillips is unemployed, but he wants to stay in Denver. With a vacancy now in Washington, could the Super Bowl 50 champions have some competition?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/05/will-washington-make-a-run-at-wade-phillips/

 

It's the reverse jinx, my friend.  60% of the time, it works, every time!

[NoCalMike]

Whoever the incoming coordinator is should at least be dealing with upgrades at a handful of positions. 

[skins4eva]

Our best defenses in years were under Greggggg W.  He also had the most talent to work with.  I loved how aggressive we were and how we dictated the flow of the game.  Get me someone like him.  

[aREDSKIN]