NoCalMike Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 The division in the country can largely be blamed on corporate media. That wasn't going to change because Hillary was President. It's not like Fox News and the right-wing radio stations would do anything but call her evil and awful every day the same way they did with Obama. People are conflating two different issues. It is more of the realty vs. perception. Reality: Trump was the worst candidate in the history of the country Perception: Yeah But.....Hillary was equally as bad. That is called normalizing awfulness and mediocrity. It is taking a historically awful situation and trying to use false relevancy in order to make the awful thing seem not as awful as it is. Whatever your you didn't like about Hillary on the issues has nothing to do with her being fit or capable of the job. Right-wing media was equally unimpressed by Trump until he won the nomination and instead of doing the right thing, they focused on propping up Trump in the name of tax cuts & Supreme Court justices. They sold out any bit of integrity they might have had left. It doesn't take a master sleuth to back and see what all these characters were saying about Trump before his support grew among the base. They had a choice to make and they don't get to go back on it now. If you want an analogy for Hillary, it would be Bush. Different on issues, but what most would consider "normal" candidates. Trump came along and lowered the bar right off the bat for what we now consider being qualified for the job in the first place. Take away every other thing about him, and you are still left with a guy that was simply not fit and/or qualified for the job, and he still to this day, almost three years in shows that he still isn't and the that the idea of "learning on the job as you go" is some weak apologist BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 ^^^ Only the best people. And in this case, someone with many of Trump's qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Dan T. said: Even if everything you wrote is unassailable, (which we'll leave aside), what percentage of Trump voters voted for him instead of her based even in part because of those things? My guess would a percentage lower than - say - John Hickenlooper's current poll numbers. I think the more important question how many independents decided “meh” and opted not to voted. We aren’t talking about how many votes Hillary racked up in California... we are talking about a few thousands votes in a few states... @NoCalMike good points. I just don’t see how trump is a terrible candidate (which I agree with) and how Hilary was a good candidate, but was still unable to win any states but the ones that she should have easily won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said: Everything you just posted is beyond misinformed. Its feigning intelligence on the subject of world policy. I could go by each of your points, and most of the others and at least make an argument against. But there really isn't much point in spending multiple pages discussing a hypothetical that no of us can really say for 100% what would have happened. I think time would be better spent discussing discussing trump and his cabinet/buffoonery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreaterbuzzette Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, PeterMP said: Well, you actually said there wouldn't be as much badness in the world. The UK government believing our President is incompetent is a level of badness I think we could have avoided. Quote me if I said that.... I said "just as bad". 3 hours ago, Dan T. said: I have no earthly idea how he stays married to that woman. Edit: I meant George Conway to Kellyanne, NOT The GreatBuzz to thegreaterbuzzette. Best.post.ever. And the answer to your question is $$$ for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I think the more important question how many independents decided “meh” and opted not to voted. We aren’t talking about how many votes Hillary racked up in California... we are talking about a few thousands votes in a few states... @NoCalMike good points. I just don’t see how trump is a terrible candidate (which I agree with) and how Hilary was a good candidate, but was still unable to win any states but the ones that she should have easily won. Truth is Hillary was a chosen candidate by the dems, not necessary just the voters. Not many prominent dems ran against her in the primaries because of this reason. The dems might have been better off if Biden had just entered the race in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, NoCalMike said: The division in the country can largely be blamed on corporate media. That wasn't going to change because Hillary was President. It's not like Fox News and the right-wing radio stations would do anything but call her evil and awful every day the same way they did with Obama. People are conflating two different issues. It is more of the realty vs. perception. Reality: Trump was the worst candidate in the history of the country Perception: Yeah But.....Hillary was equally as bad. That is called normalizing awfulness and mediocrity. It is taking a historically awful situation and trying to use false relevancy in order to make the awful thing seem not as awful as it is. Whatever your you didn't like about Hillary on the issues has nothing to do with her being fit or capable of the job. Right-wing media was equally unimpressed by Trump until he won the nomination and instead of doing the right thing, they focused on propping up Trump in the name of tax cuts & Supreme Court justices. They sold out any bit of integrity they might have had left. It doesn't take a master sleuth to back and see what all these characters were saying about Trump before his support grew among the base. They had a choice to make and they don't get to go back on it now. If you want an analogy for Hillary, it would be Bush. Different on issues, but what most would consider "normal" candidates. Trump came along and lowered the bar right off the bat for what we now consider being qualified for the job in the first place. Take away every other thing about him, and you are still left with a guy that was simply not fit and/or qualified for the job, and he still to this day, almost three years in shows that he still isn't and the that the idea of "learning on the job as you go" is some weak apologist BS. While you make solid points, and obviously Hillary is flawed, you will never convince me we would be this divided had she won. We would not have seen her say the stupid things Trump says on a daily basis, then we witness his supporters defend his comments or actions. This is what is causing a lot of the divide, The Base is simply unable to criticize him even when it's obviously deserved and that causes the split to widen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreaterbuzzette Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: While you make solid points, and obviously Hillary is flawed, you will never convince me we would be this divided had she won. We would not have seen her say the stupid things Trump says on a daily basis, then we witness his supporters defend his comments or actions. This is what is causing a lot of the divide, The Base is simply unable to criticize him even when it's obviously deserved and that causes the split to widen. You are forgetting one thing. If HRC had won, Trump wouldn't have gone for a walk in the woods and laid low. (IMO Hillary has been a good loser). Yes, he has "power" now....but could you imagine what his rhetoric would be without the limited muzzle he does have now? He'd be catering to his "base" worse than we see today. Especially once he convinced them he was cheated. And you know Russia would still be helping. And remember his base likes guns...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said: You are forgetting one thing. If HRC had won, Trump wouldn't have gone for a walk in the woods and laid low. (IMO Hillary has been a good loser). Yes, he has "power" now....but could you imagine what his rhetoric would be without the limited muzzle he does have now? He'd be catering to his "base" worse than we see today. Especially once he convinced them he was cheated. And you know Russia would still be helping. And remember his base likes guns...... Trump would have been shamed, embarrassed, and rejected by the Republican Party if he lost and likely in a lot of legal trouble. Now others might have carried on with some of his ideas, but more on the fringe if it had been proven to be a losing strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 In 2016 Republicans seeking to protect an openly racist asshole in the White House made the epithet "racist" out of order so that no one in their chamber could officially call Trump a racist. Gat damn muther ****ers. They can all rot in hell. I thought they were the ones who were against political correctness. I'm tellin' ya right now, if I EVER again vote for a Republican in my life then it will be too soon. Just now, visionary said: Trump would have been shamed, embarrassed, and rejected by the Republican Party if he lost and likely in a lot of legal trouble. Agreed, McConnell would have lost his useful idiot, and at that point there'd be no political advantage in backing him or protecting him. As it is right now, the Republicans fear their voters because their voters give two ****s about Trump's racism, sexism, and homophobia, because he's them. I see it daily in my social media feed, I hear the same things said by my neighbors daily. And then they'll go sit in church and thank Jesus he made them white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Some home cooking to get the undercount just right. Forget about federal dollars and more representation if you can keep Democrats from getting seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: Some home cooking to get the that undercount just right. Forget about federal dollars and more representation if you can keep Democrats from getting seats. Oh you know that's what it is, gotta keep the brown people unrepresented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said: Quote me if I said that.... I said "just as bad". Badness bad, whatever. Either way. We could have avoided bad or badness that didn't include other countries, including our long standing allies and other democracies thinking that we are (more of a) threat to them. Having our allies criticize the President for his xenophobic comments is a level of bad or badness we could have avoided. That's a level of badness or bad that I think we could have avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Only the best people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 About two weeks ago Pence had to cancel a trip to New Hampshire and remain in DC for some undisclosed emergency. His chief of staff, and I think Trump, alluded to "you'll find out why in a couple of weeks." Wonder if we will find out why...……………...……... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry.Randolphe Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, hail2skins said: About two weeks ago Pence had to cancel a trip to New Hampshire and remain in DC for some undisclosed emergency. His chief of staff, and I think Trump, alluded to "you'll find out why in a couple of weeks." Wonder if we will find out why...……………...……... I thought it was because of the potential air strikes on Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, hail2skins said: About two weeks ago Pence had to cancel a trip to New Hampshire and remain in DC for some undisclosed emergency. His chief of staff, and I think Trump, alluded to "you'll find out why in a couple of weeks." Wonder if we will find out why...……………...……... Pence's substitute fluffer wasn't working out with Donald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.