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Rawstory: Dash cam video shows unarmed black man with hands in air before Tulsa police shoot him dead

No Excuses

By No Excuses
in The Tailgate

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

Why are multiple cops yelling drop the gun for over a minute?

Seems like an important detail.

Why is the wife yelling, at her husband, 'don't do it'

And yes, past criminal (and violent) behavior is relevant when a situation goes wrong with the police. It speaks to character. Character matters when it comes to this stuff.

Just like the police officer(s)'s past behavior is relevant.

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

I also fail to see how mental issues should cause the police to behave differently when a gun is involved.

Remember the aid worker shot trying to help the guy in the street? Given the officer's excuse, that would seem like a good reason to recognize the mental illness issue (provided they're aware of it of course.)

But this one? *If* the guy had a gun that's all that matters. If he was mentally incapable of understanding the situation and following orders it makes it all the more tragic, but it's not an excuse for the police to accept additional risk.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, tshile said:

But this one? *If* the guy had a gun that's all that matters. If he was mentally incapable of understanding the situation and following orders it makes it all the more tragic, but it's not an excuse for the police to accept additional risk.

 

Not sure that's ALL that matters. But IMO, it's absolutely a huge factor. 

And I also agree with a point you're kinda making, here. Some of these situations, I see things along the lines of "why didn't the cop just tackle the guy and take the gun away?" or some such. And I have to say that, while I admire the notion that there are levels of force that are short of lethal, that I am reluctant to MANDATE that cops must perform things that risk themselves that much. 

It's the same thing with the "but what about this video, where a white guy with a gun didn't get shot?"  I admire the officers who show the restraint to assess a situation, and to say "I can handle this situation without shooting this guy". But I'm not sure that we want to be demanding that they have to do it, in every situation. 

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Springfield said:

 

A couple thoughts on it:

1. The wife's reaction seems odd.  Very matter of factly without a whole lot of emotion.  Seems like she knew something about him that we don't and I'd rather not speculate any further.

 

 

There is no uniform reaction to horrifying situations.  Some people scream, some cry, some go completely blank, some just babble like they are in a dream.   She's babbling.  

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted

Hollywood makes us believe people react a certain way and a lot of people just assume that grieving in real life follows a script.  I remember a woman was convicted of poisoning her husband largely on evidence that she hit the bar scene too soon after he died.  Turns out the poor guy wasn't murdered at all and they had to let her out.  That's all kinds of ugly.  

Point is movies lie, people are weird.  

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PokerPacker

PokerPacker

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Destino said:

Hollywood makes us believe people react a certain way and a lot of people just assume that grieving in real life follows a script.  I remember a woman was convicted of poisoning her husband largely on evidence that she hit the bar scene too soon after he died.  Turns out the poor guy wasn't murdered at all and they had to let her out.  That's all kinds of ugly.  

Point is movies lie, people are weird.  

Shawshank Redemption gave us just such a person who didn't much react to the death of a significant other and being convicted partially as a result of that demeanor.

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Chew

Chew

Posted
Posted

Why'd they roll up on him tho, they were in the neighborhood to serve warrants on somebody else

Even if Scott was 100% at fault...if it turns out that they just started ****ing with him for no reason (or a petty reason) and and the situation escalated from there, that'll be really messed up. :(

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

<peace activist video>

 

This remarkable young man is Ken Nwadike, heads the Free Hugs Campaign here: http://freehugsproject.com/

Deserves more acknowledgement for his efforts to lead us all out of the hateful, fearful morass we are in in these kind of situations. Simply cannot give him enough credit for making such a passionate attempt to break through the hatred. He has earned some hugs in return.

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BombBird2121

BombBird2121

Posted
Posted
On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 0:19 AM, Renegade7 said:

The whole time he was waling away with his hands up, I was screaming internally for someone to tackle him.  They literally let him get all the way to the car where he might of been able to get a weapon to kill him?  He's resisting arrest, GET HIS ***, don't wait until he gets to the car and then kill him!!!  

 

This is a exactly what should happen. Police should be trained and prepared to get physical with uncooperative citizens, kind of a job hazard. 

Now the only problem is in todays society if you want to be a cop you can be a cop. How is a woman suppose to tackle and detain a man who may not want to be detained? Not saying it cant be done but come on in most cases its not going to end well for the lady officer. So what is the other option for a scared most likely outsized officer?

Not saying its right at all but just think alot of the problem can be solved by hiring the right people and training them to "get his ***" instead of hey anybody that wants to be a cop can be a cop because its whats socially right.

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, BombBird2121 said:

This is a exactly what should happen. Police should be trained and prepared to get physical with uncooperative citizens, kind of a job hazard. 

Now the only problem is in todays society if you want to be a cop you can be a cop. How is a woman suppose to tackle and detain a man who may not want to be detained? Not saying it cant be done but come on in most cases its not going to end well for the lady officer. So what is the other option for a scared most likely outsized officer?

Not saying its right at all but just think alot of the problem can be solved by hiring the right people and training them to "get his ***" instead of hey anybody that wants to be a cop can be a cop because its whats socially right.

This continues to be a sort blind spot in the public perception of what policing should be. The problem with tackling a suspect is that there is a gun in the open. This is why you simply cannot put your hands on a cop.

A tazer is supposed to be the alternative to lethal force and that would be my question - was it deployed, and why not, in this case. 

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KingGibbs

KingGibbs

Posted
Posted

That gentleman in the 'Free Hugs' video is my hero. Seriously. A lesson can be learned from him and his message needs to be conveyed to the masses. Thanks for posting that video.

Of course he was being mocked by that babbling, uneducated ****. People like her are part of the problem.

 

 

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, BombBird2121 said:

This is a exactly what should happen. Police should be trained and prepared to get physical with uncooperative citizens, kind of a job hazard. 

Now the only problem is in todays society if you want to be a cop you can be a cop. How is a woman suppose to tackle and detain a man who may not want to be detained? Not saying it cant be done but come on in most cases its not going to end well for the lady officer. So what is the other option for a scared most likely outsized officer?

Not saying its right at all but just think alot of the problem can be solved by hiring the right people and training them to "get his ***" instead of hey anybody that wants to be a cop can be a cop because its whats socially right.

I agree physical fitness standards should be higher for on the street police officers, and equal among gender.  Was looking around, and New York State Troops require 41 pushups for males and only 24 for female upon academy graduation.  I haven't seen where that requirement is maintained (finding more academy fitness test then after you graduate).

I'm not a huge fan of the "cops not wanting to get physical because they are carrying a gun reach could be reached for argument".  I've been said they should be smart guns standard issue for all officers with higher emphasis on non-lethal force whenever possible.  That guy in Tulsa was tasered on he ground when he was shot.  I don't believe you should be a street cop if you can't physically restrain someone, while at same time, they need to fill ranks.  Maybe distinguish positions less likely to encounter violence, like traffic cops, for different physical fitness standards.

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Ray-Ban Dan

Ray-Ban Dan

Posted
Posted

^^

How about instead of expecting a cop to take down an uncooperative, mammoth human being, the person the cops are dealing with, just follow instructions?

Btw, I'm not referring to the Tulsa case with this post. Betty definitely overreacted. Especially if Crutcher's window wasn't even down. It was dumb to start walking away from the cops tho. I'll never understand that mentality. I've probably been stopped 30 times in my life, either for speeding, checkpoints, etc Not once did I ever fail to do what I was I told. I mean, really, how hard is it?..

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