Rawstory: Dash cam video shows unarmed black man with hands in air before Tulsa police shoot him dead

[tshile]

33 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

I didn't say its pull it and shoot first.  But when they pull their weapon, they are ready to shoot.  It's pulled because they feel there is a threat present to their lives or others.  I've never heard of any training where they say pull your weapon, but don't put your trigger finger on the trigger.  

Doesn't mean that it's not part of training, I've just never heard that mentioned, ever.  I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. 

According to this research report on finger positions and how they impact accidental discharge:

Quote

The first, and seemingly most basic, position officers learn during their firearms training,” the researchers write, “is where to index, or place, their finger outside of the trigger well when handling their gun to minimize the risk” of accidental or premature discharge while still allowing the fastest possible response to a deadly threat. 

With 52 federal officer volunteers from the Dept. of Homeland Security, Lewinski’s team tested four handgun finger-indexing positions “predominately taught and practiced” by LEOs and military personnel: 

• the index finger points straight ahead, resting across the trigger guard 
• essentially the same position, but with the finger bent slightly so the tip rests against the vertical side of the trigger guard 
• the pad of the straight index finger rests slightly above the trigger guard, on the pistol’s frame 
• the straight finger is angled more sharply upward, with the pad resting on the gun’s slide

 

https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/8519025-How-much-do-finger-placement-and-ready-position-matter/

Notice none of the "predominately taught and practices" includes finger on the triger?

I don't know what your background is, but this has been a basic and fundamental part of every gun safety course I've taken. I've heard multiple police officers refence this, even going so far as stating you can tell which movies/tv shows consulted real LEO because you can tell finger placement.

I don't know about military.

You don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

If you do, and you accidently shoot someone, then that's on you for violating what is the most basic rule of carrying a gun.

 

[twa]

tshile ready position is is different than aiming position

ready is not aimed

 

 

[Zguy28]

57 minutes ago, Mooka said:

I'm actually kind of flipped here. I think its more questionable how the NC shooting got to that point even though Scott was armed and was smoking a blunt or whatever. IMO, he's sitting in his own car, parked, not bothering anyone. 

Tulsa, Terrance Crutchen, looks like a guy completely on something. Obviously I'm just speculating, but it didn't really look like someone with a broken down car. I don't think he himself called for any assistance,. (could be wrong) I think the calls were from other people reporting the car stalled in the middle of the road and one of them mentioned the car was still running. Usually if your car breaks down while moving, you can at least kind of steer it towards the side of the road. Its kind of odd to just leave it blocking both lanes like that. Looks more like someone completely kirked out and just abandoned their car for possibly no reason. One caller did say that he said his car was about to blow up. Sounds a little whacko.

Of course how he ends up shot dead is a different story. If the cop who shot him is the voice on  the shot's fired call, she sounded very panicked. 

Its just like some the previous one's. You can tell in their voice it's an "Oh **** !" moment. Like I just shot a guy when I shouldn't have and now my life is never gonna be the same. Career, life, etc... flushed away just like his life.

But hey, at least you ain't dead like the poor guy you killed. Sigh.

[tshile]

11 minutes ago, twa said:

tshile ready position is is different than aiming position

ready is not aimed

 

 

 

 So were the people in that study in the aiming position or the ready position?

From where are you getting your information?

[twa]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

 So were the people in that study in the aiming position or the ready position?

From where are you getting your information?

Both, though it focused on handling and ready position.rather clearly if you read it.....it speaks to gun handling which comes before aiming(though long guns and pistols differ,aiming long gun with safety position is fairly common)

From professionals, both military and civilian/police.

you may point w/index in safety position in rare cases but not in close contact such as that stop

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

But...but...he didn't own a gun.

 

Sources: Gun recovered in Keith Lamont Scott case reported stolen

WBTV Web Staff

Sep 27, 2016 07:50 AM

CHARLOTTE, NC (WBTV) - Multiple sources confirmed to WBTV Monday that the gun police say was found in Keith Lamont Scott's possession when he was fatally shot by a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police (CMPD) officer was reported stolen.

The gun, sources said, was reportedly stolen in a residential breaking and entering. The sources said the man accused of stealing the gun was interviewed and is on record stating he sold the gun to Scott.

 

 

[skinsmarydu]

Has anyone thought of the pounds of pressure said trigger takes?  (I mean, if we're gonna get into the weeds about it...)

[twa]

3 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

Has anyone thought of the pounds of pressure said trigger takes?  (I mean, if we're gonna get into the weeds about it...)

depends on the gun 

but if ya observe rule 2 (Don’t let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to shoot at that moment) and 3 it is not a issue other than accuracy

[LeesburgSkinFan]

The wife filed a restraining order on Scott last year after he threatened to kill her and the rest of his family

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/court-records-show-keith-scotts-wife-filed-for-restraining-order/450911728

[twa]

and noted he carried a black 9 mil.

after blowing up the pic showing the ankle holster there seems to be something black in his hand.....maybe a Bible? 

[justice98]

5 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

But...but...he didn't own a gun.

 

Sources: Gun recovered in Keith Lamont Scott case reported stolen

WBTV Web Staff

Sep 27, 2016 07:50 AM

CHARLOTTE, NC (WBTV) - Multiple sources confirmed to WBTV Monday that the gun police say was found in Keith Lamont Scott's possession when he was fatally shot by a Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police (CMPD) officer was reported stolen.

The gun, sources said, was reportedly stolen in a residential breaking and entering. The sources said the man accused of stealing the gun was interviewed and is on record stating he sold the gun to Scott.

 

 

I'd like to know more about where this guy came from.  

[Ray-Ban Dan]

8 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I'd like to know more about where this guy came from.  

You will. 

23 minutes ago, twa said:

and noted he carried a black 9 mil.

after blowing up the pic showing the ankle holster there seems to be something black in his hand.....maybe a Bible? 

Remember the first reports of this story, that seemingly everyone in this thread, believed to be true? I mean, people actually believed he was really just sitting in his car reading a book? Sheesh.

[Predicto]

Yep.  Here we go.  

If it turns out this guy had a gun, the usual suspects can stick their heads right back in the sand about the whole issue, and ignore every other incident that ever happened.      

[Gamebreaker]

2 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I mean, people actually believed he was really just sitting in his car reading a book? Sheesh.

Yes, because we all know black people don't read books, am I right? Am I right? 

16 minutes ago, Predicto said:

Yep.  Here we go.  

If it turns out this guy had a gun, the usual suspects can stick their heads right back in the sand about the whole issue, and ignore every other incident that ever happened.      

They already pretend like the "Cops who should be fired" thread doesn't exist. Nothing has changed. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

19 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Yes, because we all know black people don't read books, am I right? Am I right? 

 

That's not what I was saying. I left off..."while waiting on his kid from the school bus". In other words, who goes from that, to getting gun downed? I knew immediately that there was no book. Told my friend that doesn't even make sense. And I've learned to never take for granted, eyewitness accounts, after the whole "hands up, don't shoot fiasco". 

[twa]

33 minutes ago, Predicto said:

Yep.  Here we go.  

If it turns out this guy had a gun, the usual suspects can stick their heads right back in the sand about the whole issue, and ignore every other incident that ever happened.      

 

yeah, here we go ignoring things

[Ray-Ban Dan]

The El Cajon protest was angry but peaceful. Several dozen people, most of them black, gathered and some cursed at officers guarding the scene. They chanted "black lives matter!" and "hands up, don't shoot!"

 

Idiots.

 

 

 

[Gamebreaker]

Initial reports from the El Cajon shooting look like it was justified. Although I'm sure those who've been screaming to be patient for more information won't say anything close to that right now. Nope, just looking for every opportunity to call people you don't care about idiots. 

[grego]

5 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

The El Cajon protest was angry but peaceful. Several dozen people, most of them black, gathered and some cursed at officers guarding the scene. They chanted "black lives matter!" and "hands up, don't shoot!"

 

Idiots.

 

 

 

oy. thats not good.

[Popeman38]

19 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Initial reports from the El Cajon shooting look like it was justified. Although I'm sure those who've been screaming to be patient for more information won't say anything close to that right now. Nope, just looking for every opportunity to call people you don't care about idiots. 

When you pull your hands out of your pockets real fast and assume this position with an object in your hands, you are going to get shot. PERIOD. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

25 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Initial reports from the El Cajon shooting look like it was justified. Although I'm sure those who've been screaming to be patient for more information won't say anything close to that right now. Nope, just looking for every opportunity to call people you don't care about idiots. 

They're idiots because they are STILL (what, two years later?) pushing a narrative that NEVER existed. I blame the BLM for this. This very thing was mentioned in the article that btfoom posted a few pages back.

[grego]

8 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Initial reports from the El Cajon shooting look like it was justified. Although I'm sure those who've been screaming to be patient for more information won't say anything close to that right now. Nope, just looking for every opportunity to call people you don't care about idiots. 

 

I think here is where some people are at- there are horrible, terrible, unspeakable things happening in the world every moment of every day.. honestly, if we thought about them as much as we should, we'd all probably throw ourselves off of a bridge from depression. you have to understand that if people are being told that police shootings need to be social justice cause number 1, the message is going to suffer when things that aren't true are repeated like this as fact.

not only that, but the cause sets itself up for criticism. and its completely valid. the thing is, it shouldn't need to resort to dishonesty- there are enough examples of questionable shootings to talk about and raise concern.

[Gamebreaker]

12 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

When you pull your hands out of your pockets real fast and assume this position with an object in your hands, you are going to get shot. PERIOD. 

What is the point of this post? I said it looks justified. 

15 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

They're idiots because they are STILL (what, two years later?) pushing a narrative that NEVER existed. I blame the BLM for this. This very thing was mentioned in the article that btfoom posted a few pages back.

Are the people who claim there are no unjustified shootings idiots too? 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Are the people who claim there are no unjustified shootings idiots too? 

Who is doing that? 

[Gamebreaker]

Just now, Ray-Ban Dan said:

Who is doing that? 

You can't be serious. Not in this thread, much like the people you called idiots, is a decent chunk of our population that believes none of these shootings are unjustified. So I'll ask you again, are they idiots too?