Kirk Cousins, NOT IMPRESSED

[lovemaskins]

1 hour ago, pjfootballer said:

I think we've all been starving for a good team for so long, we have a hard time seeing the small progress.  I keep trying to tell myself that even though I see other teams turn it around rather quickly, they usually don't sustain it for years and years.  I understand the Scot is trying to build slowly and right, so that we have a lot of years of competitive football.  It's just hard to appreciate the progress after 25 years of suckage/average play.  I can say that I'm one that has been losing a little patience and I'm really trying to keep things in perspective.  But it's hard to do.

 

That's the thing.  Look at the teams we're trying to emulate so to speak.  Arizona, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Patriots, Green Bay, etc... Those teams are contenders year in and year out because they do things the right way.  Teams that flash like, LIKE US (please Lord in the past), catch lightning in a bottle and then dissipate because the success isn't sustainable. 

We're attempting to do things the right way.  Build through the draft from the inside out while relying on player and personnel development.  Coaching based on strengths and weaknesses signing our own.  You know, the stuff we've all said we wanted for a decade or more.  It's finally here. 

So yeah, I can stand to lose a game like yesterday, knowing the direction of our program and finally having a team that I expect to win every week.  Is it possible we lose next week.  Yep.  But I think we go to London and play Redskin football.  They're going to have to deal with us for 60min.  High throttle offense, get after it hustle defense.  Good special teams.

After the bye week vs Minnesota. The same thing.  For all 16 weeks.  We haven't had that but once (Joe Gibbs II) in 25 years and this seems sustainable for the long haul as long as Snyder stays out of the way. 

[Wildbunny]

39 minutes ago, TheDawnofaNewEra said:

This is the one that reminded of the Atlanta game last year.  Had Kirk connected with Garcon on that throw, we'd still had 10 more seconds of real time for one more play to get closer for a FG.

I believe Coaching here made a mistake by trying to go too far too quick.

They aimed for the 35 yard line so they can try a FG, because that's common knowledge throughout the NFL. But that Dustin Hopkins guy is a freaking Kicker. As noted in the gamethread, the guy missed the field goal by hitting the TOP of the upright on a 45 yarder. Some kickers in the NFL are too short on the 45 yarder.

I believe they should have been more confident and play shorter quicker throws to reach the 40/45 staying in the middle of the field. I'm pretty sure Hopkins can nails those as well. And if you look at his Kick Offs, he could probably score some FG from the 50 as well.

So they had around 50 yards to gain in 16 seconds, while in my scenario it was only 30/40 yards. Way more easier to get.

[Sticksboi05]

2 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

Grant was most likely supposed to clear out with an 8 route.  That's a post.  The pass was MOST likely going to Vernon Davis who was running a wheel (or whatever name you want to give it).  If grant isn't there, neither is the defender.  Pass was not god awful, cousins simply trusted his receiver to run the right route.  That's why you see him on the sideline coaching grant up.  Not on cousins at all.  In fact, cousins played an incredible game, with the lone glaring mistake being that handoff he fumbled.  

 

That was on Jones 100%. The only bad throw was the tough one to Garcon with 16 seconds left. Anyone whining about Kirk yesterday is a clown (not you, the other people in here).

 

11 hours ago, Taylor703 said:

Whether or not Grant ran the wrong route, that pass was still god awful. He just lobbed it up there and there was still going to be a defender there either way. Grant had a brain fart but that doesn't excuse the horrible throw. All around terrible play by everyone involved. 

 

No. Just no. Grant was at fault, he is a terrible football player. 

[zoony]

Kirk is fine. He is good enough to win in this league and that puts him in exclusive company. He is certainly not perfect but he is definitely good enough. 

 

What at will be interesting o me is to see if he can improve over the next few years or if he has reached his ceiling

[Wildbunny]

What kind of ceiling can there be above Winning?

[Unbias]

Kirk was good yesterday. He was very good in that last drive where they took the lead late. 

This was around the same spot he got hot last year. The schedule isn't going to make it easy. IMO if he continues to play like he did yesterday then he'll be worth a big deal this offseason. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

Kirk is fine. He is good enough to win in this league and that puts him in exclusive company. He is certainly not perfect but he is definitely good enough. 

 

What at will be interesting o me is to see if he can improve over the next few years or if he has reached his ceiling

Yep.  Even when my dumbass is blaming him for a dumb throw which turns out to be Grant running the wrong route because he's not meant for the big stage, I still know that he's good enough.

He had one boneheaded decision yesterday, and that was not eating the sack when he tripped and fell.  Then he trips again and delivers a gorgeous pass to keep the drive alive a few series later.  It comes out in the wash.

If we could draft someone better, then let's do it, but while Kirk isn't going to win the games for us like he did in 2015 (please be wrong, please be wrong!), he's not the one losing them, either.

[Wildbunny]

I'm all for finding a better QB than Cousins.

But it's easier to find a better QB than John Beck than Kirk Cousins.

[Xameil]

1 minute ago, Wildbunny said:

I'm all for finding a better QB than Cousins.

But it's easier to find a better QB than John Beck than Kirk Cousins.

Signed every GM everywhere about their QB

[TheGreek1973]

Next year Gruden will need to do something with him to get him started earlier, he just seems to need time to get back to form.  Last two games were his best so far this year.  We have our starting QB, lets spend our capital on building that DL to a monster.

PS:  Lets also pray that Trent Williams is not that seriously hurt.

[NoCalMike]

When it comes to Cousins I feel one of his strengths AND weaknesses is his pre-snap reading of a defense.  I feel he knows where the mismatch is and is able to deliver the ball to the read that gets open quick.  However, on a lot of plays it can also be a weakness because he isn't necessarily scanning the field to notice that coverage is breaking down elsewhere and instead of taking the open 4 yard pass, if he just glances elsewhere he will see someone wide open for a 20 yard pitch and catch.  I guess you could call it somewhat of robotic play from Cousins?

The interesting thing though is the few times where he scrambles to create times, we get a peek of Cousins indeed having the ability to go off script and make something happen, however on your normal drop back pocket passes he doesn't seem to do that much.  If the easy money says go to Reed for 4 yards, that is what he will do without looking elsewhere first.

Now in certain situations, of course you need to go to those safety valve plays, for instance if the pocket breaks down and he needs to get rid of the ball right away, however more time than not this season he has a clean pocket and time.

[RonArtest15]

If someone can make a realistic suggestion as to who can replace Kirk going forward, I'm all ears. 

Otherwise, I'm fine with him at QB. 

There are a handful of elite QBs in the league.  Kirk being "average," if you want to call him that, is just fine.  Average QBs have gone to multiple pro bowls, been in the playoffs, AND won Super Bowls. 

Kirk isn't without his warts, but some of the criticism is a bit OD. 

*speaking of criticism, what's with a former insider constantly taking shots at the guy on twitter?  It's strange that he'll go to the lengths that he does to not be the slightest bit objective. 

[Warhead36]

Cousins is better then average. No he isn't elite, but again how many elite QBs are there that are great week in week out? Tom Brady and...that might be the list. Even Rodgers has been up and down for the last calendar year.

He had 300 yards and a TD pass yesterday along with an awesome rushing TD that should have won us the game. Down double digits in the 4th he rallied us to take the lead.

Wanna know something else? In our 4 game winning streak we were trailing in the 4th quarter in two of those games but won. In the Ravens game we were trailing in the 3rd quarter and won. I don't think average QBs put up what is essentially three 4th quarter and four 2nd half come from behind wins in a span of five games.

[TheGreek1973]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Cousins is better then average. No he isn't elite, but again how many elite QBs are there that are great week in week out? Tom Brady and...that might be the list. Even Rodgers has been up and down for the last calendar year.

He had 300 yards and a TD pass yesterday along with an awesome rushing TD that should have won us the game. Down double digits in the 4th he rallied us to take the lead.

Wanna know something else? In our 4 game winning streak we were trailing in the 4th quarter in two of those games but won. In the Ravens game we were trailing in the 3rd quarter and won. I don't think average QBs put up what is essentially three 4th quarter and four 2nd half come from behind wins in a span of five games.

Awesome post Warhead.  And about the elite part, sure he is not elite but who was really elite there second year of starting? 

[Taylor703]

22 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Awesome post Warhead.  And about the elite part, sure he is not elite but who was really elite there second year of starting? 

Second year starter or not, it's safe to say Kirk is never going to be an elite QB. You can almost tell that right away. 

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

Second year starter or not, it's safe to say Kirk is never going to be an elite QB. You can almost tell that right away. 

What makes someone an "Elite" QB?

[RonArtest15]

3 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

Second year starter or not, it's safe to say Kirk is never going to be an elite QB. You can almost tell that right away. 

And people need to realize that Kirk not being "elite" is just fine.  There is nothing wrong with it.  There are probably 3/4 elite QBs in the NFL right now. These guys obviously don't grow on trees.  This is why I don't get why folks are so quick to say the team needs to move on from him with no viable plan in place going forward.  Unless there's a better option out there, I'm fine with Kirk being here beyond this season. 

[NoCalMike]

It's not about finding better than Kirk.  Kirk is who we have now and we are all rooting and hoping he does well.  The Kirk issue becomes a thing when the offseason starts due to how much he and his agent are asking for versus how much the front office is willing to pay him.

Those numbers are what we debate about after every game in this thread.

[Warhead36]

21 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

Second year starter or not, it's safe to say Kirk is never going to be an elite QB. You can almost tell that right away. 

You never know.

Take Ben Roethlisberger for example. Last year Cousins had 4100 yards and 29 TDs. Roethlisberger didn't surpass that yardage total until sixth season. He's only surpassed that TD total twice in his entire career.

Drew Brees didn't surpass 29 TDs until EIGHTH season in the NFL and didn't surpass 4k yards until his sixth.

Even the great Tom Brady didn't surpass 29 TDs until his eight season(where he exploded for FIFTY).

It seems like the career trajectory for most QBs is pretty good to good the first few years, then hit that elite status by around year 6 or so. The one thing going against Cousins is that he didn't get to start full time until his fourth season, so if he were to ever become elite(and he might never), it wouldn't be until his mid 30s. With that said, in today's NFL QBs are playing well into their late 30s if not early 40s at a very high level.

Right now here are Cousins NFL ranks:

Yards: 6th

Completion %: 9th* (technically 11th but two ahead of him are Brian Hoyer and Cody Kessler and neither are really fulltime starters)

TDs: 11th

Cousins 6 picks may not look great, but then you look at some other QBs. Reigning league MVP Cam Newton has 6. Carson Palmer has 6. Super Bowl champions Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have 6. Brees has 5 with one fewer game played.

Cousins right now is firmly in that range of QBs that are pretty good to very good, albeit occasionally make real boneheaded throws. He COULD be elite one day.

[Taylor703]

15 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

What makes someone an "Elite" QB?

I don't actually know how to explain it but you can definitely see it when you watch Brees, Brady, Rothlisberger and Aaron Rodgers for the most part. It was the same way with Peyton Manning. Kirk just isn't one of those guys and that's fine. 

17 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

And people need to realize that Kirk not being "elite" is just fine.  There is nothing wrong with it.  There are probably 3/4 elite QBs in the NFL right now. These guys obviously don't grow on trees.  This is why I don't get why folks are so quick to say the team needs to move on from him with no viable plan in place going forward.  Unless there's a better option out there, I'm fine with Kirk being here beyond this season. 

But if you don't look, how do you know there isn't a better option? I'm not saying to move on from Kirk but this idea that it's impossible to find someone better is very far-fetched. Finding the best possible players for this roster is why McCloughan was brought in and if he thinks Kirk is that guy than I fully support that decision. 

[Area51]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Next year Gruden will need to do something with him to get him started earlier, he just seems to need time to get back to form.  Last two games were his best so far this year.  We have our starting QB, lets spend our capital on building that DL to a monster.

 

I'll be the first one to admit that I know jack**** when it comes to football, but I have a simple suggestion that could easily remedy this problem: PLAY THE GUY IN PRESEASON.  I still can't believe how he was treated like a 15-year veteran Peyton Manning in the offseason.  Instead, we barely play him.  I get the concern over a potential injury but he didn't even dress the second game.  

[Riggo#44]

10 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

I don't actually know how to explain it but you can definitely see it when you watch Brees, Brady, Rothlisberger and Aaron Rodgers for the most part. It was the same way with Peyton Manning. Kirk just isn't one of those guys and that's fine. 

Rothliesberger is the most interesting "elite" QB--he has been as up and down, year-to-year, as any with a reputation as great as he has. There are certain terms that get thrown around that are just words--without any actual definition. Elite is one of them. For example, Drew Brees was throwing picks by the boatload at age 28. (18, 17, 11, 22 INTs, starting at age 28). 

There are only a handful of QBs I'd rather have right now. I'd say he's a top 10 QB.

[pjfootballer]

If it's so easy to find a QB, why did it take us almost 25 years to find one?

[TheGreek1973]

52 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

Second year starter or not, it's safe to say Kirk is never going to be an elite QB. You can almost tell that right away. 

Oh so you could tell Ben was going to be elite after the first 3 years?  Imagine Cousins with the Steelers D that Ben had, what do you think our record would be now?  I say safely 6-1.  How about Brees and his first two years?

[NoCalMike]

In my previous reply when I referred to Kirk as being somewhat "robotic" in the way he plays QB, I can also acknowledge that it could be due to him being a 2nd year starter in the offense. He might start scanning the field and being more confident to go off script the longer her plays in the offense. At least that is what you hope.