Kirk Cousins, NOT IMPRESSED

[PartyPosse]

16 hours ago, TheItalianStallion said:

Not directly related to Cousins, but regarding our first possession of the 3rd quarter, we ended up punting on 4th & 5 at the DET 41. I'm mystified as to why we punted there. Why the heck didn't we go for it on 4th?

It was a tight defensive battle all game. Usually in games like that you want to win field position battle. I didn't mind the call as if we got off a better punt and stop em as the defense was doing all afternoon then we get back at midfield with a fresh set of downs. 

4 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

So we have been giving major passes on our WRs kind of drawing the forgone conclusion they are elite and its Cousins that could be better.  if you remember last year, our WRs had a healthy dose of YAP but this year this is not the case.  For  example DJax had 5 catches but he seemed to get tackled right away.  Also I have not seen many screens called this year, last year we were successful on such plays.  I truly believe some of our issues are play calling.

I question a lot of the play calls to Desean. His bread and butter is speed and quickness so you either throw him deep or wide, 2 yards to either side with blockers and let him work his magic. Tossing him 6-7 yard passes while he's stationary and a defender on him is pointless.

[Tsailand]

4 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

You guys act like Garcon and Jackson are a top 5 WR combo. 

This fanbase has gotten so used to having awful players starting over the years, that when we have actual qualified players starting, we think they are elite.

[MartinC]

16 hours ago, wit33 said:

I agree that Stafford made some incredible plays and was a difference maker in the game. Stafford appears to be on the cusp of putting it all together, his play recently certainly supports that. 

Interesting comment about Stafford just starting to put it all together and look like one of the best QB's in the league. I agree.

Its his 8th season.

[wit33]

10 hours ago, William Barbour said:

 

Some QB extend plays, some QB'S just change the play before the snap to exploit weaknesses. Very few do both. 

Kirk and Brady will change a play to exploit a weakness. That is their ability to "extend a play"

No, not at all. Cousins from what ove read has been stripped of some pre play responsibilities after struggling with it early (I think he has potential to regain this and make it a strength).

I hate using Brady (I dont expect Kirk to be Brady), but Brady extends plays all throughout games if needed, through manipulation of the pocket and throws outside the pocket. He does all the time. 

Kirk did this 2 weeks ago with great impact. It allows for the offense to overcome bad play calls, mistakes, and not have to always have a close to perfect 10-15 play drive to score. 

[wit33]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

Interesting comment about Stafford just starting to put it all together and look like one of the best QB's in the league. I agree.

Its his 8th season.

He's had a few tremendous years before year 8, No?

Kirk just may make it to year 8

[MartinC]

42 minutes ago, wit33 said:

He's had a few tremendous years before year 8, No?

Kirk just may make it to year 8

Tremendous if you judge it by passing yardage. But it was his 3rd year before he broke 60% completions on a season. The next 3 years after that he was mediocre at best. It was only last year he started to really put it together and got over 30 TD passes. Looks like he will continue that trajectory this year. It's taken working through 6 years of inconsistent QB play (while throwing to one of the best receivers of all time) to get him to the point where it all seems to clicking.

[Taylor703]

38 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Tremendous if you judge it by passing yardage. But it was his 3rd year before he broke 60% completions on a season. The next 3 years after that he was mediocre at best. It was only last year he started to really put it together and got over 30 TD passes. Looks like he will continue that trajectory this year. It's taken working through 6 years of inconsistent QB play (while throwing to one of the best receivers of all time) to get him to the point where it all seems to clicking.

Yeah that's not correct. He threw for 40TDs his third year in the league. And if I misunderstood you, I apologize. 

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, wit33 said:

No, not at all. Cousins from what ove read has been stripped of some pre play responsibilities after struggling with it early (I think he has potential to regain this and make it a strength).

Wrong. Kirk on the radio on Monday said he is given couple of plays and calls them based on the look the D is giving him. The option to run for a TD himself was the second option play. 

"The Redskins had two plays called, Cousins explained. He checked into the second play, a designed QB keeper predicated on a fake handoff, based on his feel for the defense, and took off around the end for a 19-yard touchdown run for a 17-13 lead."

More Here: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/24/kirk-cousins-on-redskins-miscues-in-loss-to-lions/

 

[William Barbour]

4 hours ago, wit33 said:

No, not at all. Cousins from what ove read has been stripped of some pre play responsibilities after struggling with it early (I think he has potential to regain this and make it a strength).

I hate using Brady (I dont expect Kirk to be Brady), but Brady extends plays all throughout games if needed, through manipulation of the pocket and throws outside the pocket. He does all the time. 

Kirk did this 2 weeks ago with great impact. It allows for the offense to overcome bad play calls, mistakes, and not have to always have a close to perfect 10-15 play drive to score. 

Where you heard he got stripped of play calling duties. You a misheard. Cooley said this week that he's actually been given more freedom and it showed when the headsets went down Sunday

[wit33]

3 hours ago, zskins said:

Wrong. Kirk on the radio on Monday said he is given couple of plays and calls them based on the look the D is giving him. The option to run for a TD himself was the second option play.

 

 

2 hours ago, William Barbour said:

Where you heard he got stripped of play calling duties. You a misheard. 

It seems he's given 2 plays, most of the time being a run pass option early in downs. Is this correct?

I thought some of his responsibilities were scaled back after the Dallas game.  I said some, not all. 

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

7 hours ago, Taylor703 said:

Yeah that's not correct. He threw for 40TDs his third year in the league. And if I misunderstood you, I apologize. 

You got it right, and that's also forgetting Stafford wrecking each shoulder within the first 11 games of his career. 

Fans also seem to forget that he went to an 0-16 team fresh off of Matt Millen. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I've never been a big Stafford guy, a lot of his big yardage seasons were a function of having the best WR in a generation.  Before this season nobody, and I mean nobody, considered Stafford a great or even very good QB and he was a 7 year starter.  This season he has been very good to great but lets let this season and the next 5 play out before he is anointed greatness status.

 

As for Kirk I am worried he will fall into that Stafford pre 2016/Matt Ryan catagory or maybe a bit below that.  In other words just good enough to get you beat as the stakes get larger.  But then I watch Houston, Cleveland, the Jets or Jags and understand there are several teams who would gladly pay huge bank for Kirk Cousins should we let him go.

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

But then I watch Houston, Cleveland, the Jets or Jags and understand there are several teams who would gladly pay huge bank for Kirk Cousins should we let him go.

I will stake my reputation as a well-respected, level-headed, and generally-loved-by-all-on-here poster that Kirk is going nowhere. No need for hand wringing. He is not leaving.

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, Taylor703 said:

Yeah that's not correct. He threw for 40TDs his third year in the league. And if I misunderstood you, I apologize. 

No your right. I missed that. I stand by my point though that Stafford has been very inconsistent and more mediocre than good up until the last couple of years.

[Xameil]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I will stake my reputation

 

Just because you want to shake what your reputation actually is on here doesn't mean you should wish ill will to Cousins...

[Tsailand]

Riggo: Why do you think Kirk isn't leaving?  Do you think we'll be the high bidder?

[TheGreek1973]

21 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

It was a tight defensive battle all game. Usually in games like that you want to win field position battle. I didn't mind the call as if we got off a better punt and stop em as the defense was doing all afternoon then we get back at midfield with a fresh set of downs. 

I question a lot of the play calls to Desean. His bread and butter is speed and quickness so you either throw him deep or wide, 2 yards to either side with blockers and let him work his magic. Tossing him 6-7 yard passes while he's stationary and a defender on him is pointless.

I agree, but I think we are starting to totally dismiss how well or ok our WRs are playing.  I love Crowder but to have a 2nd year 4th round pick play this well while a DJax is having a mediocre season is perplexing. 

[Wildbunny]

15 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

Riggo: Why do you think Kirk isn't leaving?  Do you think we'll be the high bidder?

Because we'll have opportunities to:

A - Sign him long term before a became a FA. (We can't sign him throughout the season, but there's a period where we can sign him prior to him becoming a FA).

B - We'll still have the possibility to tag him again next offseason.

If B and C weren't options this year we would have worked a long term deal last offseason.

[Unbias]

22 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

and also comparing to Tom Brady is unfair.  He is the best QB ever to play the position

I'm not against comparisons to great players. When people mention that they are more trying to talk about a specific attribute which is prevalent in a well known player rather than saying the player we are debating is just like this future/current HOFer. 

There are definitely aspects of Kirk's game that are very similar to Tom Brady. I'm not comparing the sum of their parts, but rather a couple parts to each other. 

[Cliffmark1]

52 minutes ago, Unbias said:

I'm not against comparisons to great players. When people mention that they are more trying to talk about a specific attribute which is prevalent in a well known player rather than saying the player we are debating is just like this future/current HOFer. 

There are definitely aspects of Kirk's game that are very similar to Tom Brady. I'm not comparing the sum of their parts, but rather a couple parts to each other. 

I said this before but I think he compares more similarly to Drew Brees out of anyone recently. It took Brees a few years to get it before lighting it up. And they have similar pros and cons. 

[TheGreek1973]

I don't get people trying to compare Cousins to anyone of the top QBs when he has not really started a full two seasons yet.  I know in peoples mind he is almost a 5 year pro, but the fact of the matter is doesn't have a 4.5 year starting experience.  In addition in the years he has played he is very close to breaking some Redskins records including Sonny's 300 yard games from what I understand.  Last year he became the leading passing yard QB leader of our team and led the league in % completions. 

Additional points.  By all reports he is a very hard worker, he seems very durable and he is a guy you don't have to worry about getting into any off field issues.

[CBass1724]

The grass is not always greener.  Check out the Brock Osweiler situation.  He was setup to be the long-term guy in Denver but he took more money to go to Houston.  Now they are regretting that decision big time, as I'm sure Brock is, too, inside his head.  Denver has to be excited they aren't locked onto that guy.

Kirk is way more valuable to us than anybody else.  He's been here awhile and the foundation is built for him to keep this job for a long time.  It takes awhile for teams to get to this point where the offense is installed and guys know the playbook.  It has taken a few years to get here.  As much as coaches and GM's want their teams to be "plug and play", the reality is that it's just not true when it comes to the quarterback position.  There's quite the learning curve involved.  Especially when you don't have a strong running game or elite defense.  Kirk does not provide the same value going to a new team as he provides for us by staying here.  You could argue that the Skins should pay him more to stay here than he would command on the open market.

So many fans are taking for granted just how good Kirk really is.  Who cares if he's not on the Brady or Brees level?  Those guys are rare gems.  Kirk can master this system even better than he knows it now.  But right now, he's still pretty damn good and our offense can move the ball on anybody.  We have a chance to win with him every single week.  It's been so long since we've had stability at the QB spot here in Washington that people don't know how to react when a functional, NFL caliber quarterback is leading our team.  It's not like he's lacking any skills.  It's all about decision making and that will only improve with each game rep he gets.

Wish everyone would appreciate what we have here.

[Taylor703]

The Osweiler situation is completely different. When the team that drafted, groomed and knows everything about the guy just lets him walk at 26-years old than you better be a little bit suspicious. Denver made very little effort to keep Brock. They didn't even attempt to tag him.

The Redskins on the other hand seem to want Kirk, they just don't want to vastly overpay to do so. It's a sticky situation but the Redskins didn't just let Kirk walk out the building so that means something. 

[Inigo Montoya]

22 minutes ago, CBass1724 said:

 

Wish everyone would appreciate what we have here.

It's like we've all collectively taken a brain dump and forgot just how bad our QBing has been with the exception of 2012 Griffin and Brad Johnson in 99.

That's 17 years, 2 years with good play from dudes not named cousins and now the past two years with Kirk. This year he lost that Dallas game with his misses, otherwise he's done what we've needed. anyone blaming him for last week needs to get hip checked. 

[PartyPosse]

14 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It's like we've all collectively taken a brain dump and forgot just how bad our QBing has been with the exception of 2012 Griffin and Brad Johnson in 99.

That's 17 years, 2 years with good play from dudes not named cousins and now the past two years with Kirk. This year he lost that Dallas game with his misses, otherwise he's done what we've needed. anyone blaming him for last week needs to get hip checked. 

This is not a knock on Cousins but i hate this analogy in terms of our history with the QB position. That's like saying we've been drinking gasoline for so long, we should appreciate the toilet water we now have (Not comparing Kirk to toilet water, just making an isolated comparison).

So Cleveland should be thrilled with Cody Kessler because their history of QBs has been so atrocious? I know Kirk is MILES ahead of Cody but my point is it's easy to be overly enamored when you've been snakebitten so many times in the past.