Destino Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: A lot of that has to do with the fact that the offense is largely effective when they spread out the receivers and really make the field bigger than it is. One thing I noticed is even though they aren't throwing deep, most defenses still have at least a couple guys deeper, which is normal. When you're within 15-20 yards, there is no reason for anyone to play deep. The field is smaller and it doesn't work for Cousins who, for the most part, isn't effective or at least isn't comfortable throwing in tight windows. Probably why there are so many fades. I don't think this offense is as WCO as it was, but there are still traits and bottom line is the whole point of WCO is to open up the running game. Even though he doesn't have the body for it, I wished this team would use CT in the redzone more often. He's shiftier and can still squeak through minimal holes. I think part of it is that our best wide receivers are 5-10 (and weak) and 5-8. Killers in space but if the defense can crowd them they're much less effective and they don't need to waste a safety deep. We have other options, but going from four good options to two (or one when Reed is hurt) makes life a lot more difficult. Another issue is that Kirk just isn't great at buying time. On most snaps because getting the ball out fast is best as it negates the pass rush. Last season we ran a lot of quick slants in the red zone but those are gone. This year buying time would help but that's just not his game. Mostly though, I think it's coaching. These coaches have to find the personnel groups and plays that work for the players they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think it's coaching and Cousins in that he clearly isn't comfortable throwing it down the middle, where last year he and Reed were unstoppable. Gruden clearly doesn't want him to do what he did in Dallas and I think Kirk is more than happy to oblige. I wish we would run 2-TE sets in red zone now that Kirk has more confidence in Vernon. It would also help if Cousins/Gruden would spread the ball around much more. Kirk does become comfortable to a fault when he gets into a rhythm with a receiver or two. After a while, you may not be able to know in advance where Kirk is going with the ball, but it becomes easier to guess. Brady does an incredible job doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said: Oh so you could tell Ben was going to be elite after the first 3 years? Imagine Cousins with the Steelers D that Ben had, what do you think our record would be now? I say safely 6-1. How about Brees and his first two years? Yes, it was actually pretty easy to see how good Ben was going to be. The league was also a bit different then as every QB on the planet was throwing close to 5K yards. It's not a slight on Kirk as there are very few elite QBs on the planet, he's just not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I actually think a big part of the problem is Desean Jackson . The dude completely changes the game between the twenties by insisting guys play off. But in the redzone is is basically a wasted man. What route can he run? Can't run a fade, can't run deep, can't run a slant, so what's he doing? I'd actually like to take him off the field inside the 20, but he'd probably throw a fit at not having opportunities to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Not directly related to Cousins, but regarding our first possession of the 3rd quarter, we ended up punting on 4th & 5 at the DET 41. I'm mystified as to why we punted there. Why the heck didn't we go for it on 4th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, TheItalianStallion said: Not directly related to Cousins, but regarding our first possession of the 3rd quarter, we ended up punting on 4th & 5 at the DET 41. I'm mystified as to why we punted there. Why the heck didn't we go for it on 4th? Not only that, but I think they fielded the punt at the 14 or so. Which means we passed on a decent chance to convert to gain about 25 yards. If we had somehow pinned them inside the 5, then it might have been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 hours ago, wit33 said: He scans the short intermediate areas, that's it. Once Reed returns, his production will continue, as this is the areas he often occupies. Not a bad thing, Brady is very similar. An elite QB creates plays consistently throughout a game. Kirk is an system oriented AN, but must continue to work on making plays outside of the design from time to time. He made great progress with this 2 weeks ago. Kirk was fine last game though, not as good 2 weeks ago, but played well enough to win. I don't agree with this. The offense is built to favor the QB. Doesn't make him any less of a play creator then the other guys. Just like NE and Brady, the offense is built to use his strengths similar to how WAS using Kirk. It doesn't mean that both those QB'S can't create great plays. I even hate using them in the same sentence because Brady is a hall of famer and Kirk is a 2nd Tier QB right now. Maybe the best QB in Redskins history, but he's still 2nd tier. Good coaches play to players strengths. Dalton in Cincinnati ran a different offense then, Kirk is running in Washington right now. Same coach scheme. We did see the difference between a 1st tier QB in Stafford and how he was able to do some of the things he did. Yet, a 2nd tier QB in Kirk was also able to make plays for his team. Two different tiers. Two different offenses. Both made plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Stafford changed the entire game with what 2 throws? And that 50 yard pass, it wasn't even bad coverage. Stafford was betting on his WR to catch it or no one catch it. Those kind of plays are missing from our offense. They change everything when executed, hell sometimes even attempting them can buy you some changes to the defense. Cousins doesn't seem to like to throw downfield unless the target is wide open. Anyone notice that he is out-throwing Jackson this season? How? Why? It's because he is probably too worried about it being picked off so he is heaving it as far as he can and hoping Jackson tracks it down, instead of throwing it to a spot where it has the best chance to get caught. Jackson is definitely one of those WR's who can turn on the burners after the ball is in the air, so sometimes you have to have trust in him even if into your drop the corner appears to be running stride for stride. What you can't do is just heave it so far that there is no chance of it getting caught. You have to let your play makers make a play. Also, one thing that isn't Cousin's fault, is the lack of size in our WR core, it is the one weakness. We don't have a lot of guys who can throw jump balls too. Garcon is physical, but he is still smaller sized. The 49ers just put Torrey Smith on the trading block. He is 6'0" not exactly huge, but it is bigger then what we have now at WR until Doctson comes back which who knows when that will be. I am not saying we should bring in Smith, but we do need size in our WR core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, TheItalianStallion said: Not directly related to Cousins, but regarding our first possession of the 3rd quarter, we ended up punting on 4th & 5 at the DET 41. I'm mystified as to why we punted there. Why the heck didn't we go for it on 4th? Gruden is not good at making those kind of decisions. He's also bad at clock management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, William Barbour said: I don't agree with this. The offense is built to favor the QB. Doesn't make him any less of a play creator then the other guys. Just like NE and Brady, the offense is built to use his strengths similar to how WAS using Kirk. It doesn't mean that both those QB'S can't create great plays. I even hate using them in the same sentence because Brady is a hall of famer and Kirk is a 2nd Tier QB right now. Maybe the best QB in Redskins history, but he's still We did see the difference between a 1st tier QB in Stafford and how he was able to do some of the things he did. Yet, a 2nd tier QB in Kirk was also able to make plays for his team. Two different tiers. Two different offenses. Both made plays I agree that Stafford made some incredible plays and was a difference maker in the game. Stafford appears to be on the cusp of putting it all together, his play recently certainly supports that. My point with Kirk, most all systems are attempting to suit the QB, but the better QBs make plays outside of the call from time to time. The defense gets paid as well, so the QB position at times requires some improv. Well, the better QBs are expected to do this. It's unrealistic for coaches each week or every play to make the correct call for each situation, this is where better QBs are able to create and extend plays outside of the concept. Not sure what 2nd tier means, but Kirk is A top 15 guy at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDibbs31 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 7 hours ago, TheItalianStallion said: Not directly related to Cousins, but regarding our first possession of the 3rd quarter, we ended up punting on 4th & 5 at the DET 41. I'm mystified as to why we punted there. Why the heck didn't we go for it on 4th? I agree 100%. I said this in the Gameday Thread right when we decided to punt and was crucified. Our defense was playing well but the law of averages shows that this defense was not going to hold down a high-powered offense throughout the entire game. Of course right afterwards, they complete two big passes and score a TD. We should be able to convert a 4th & 5 on the worst pass defense in the NFL at least 50% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 NoCalMike does touch on a subject that baffles me. Our WR group never seems to attack a football in the air; they want it dropping into their hands, but a DB or safety will go up after it. Size does matter, being we don't have that tall WR who can jump. Reed is our biggest threat in that dept but he's not known for going up for the ball. A couple weeks ago they said they worked on deep routes all week in practice, but even Cooley mentioned that for most of the game we didn't try to stretch the field. Whether that's Cousins lack of trust in his WRs or McVay not calling for more deep shots, this needs to be worked on; we have DJax and Crowder who can get downfield in a hurry and are shifty, maybe sending them on deep crossing routes would help. Right now this offense is at a high idle, but if they want to do anything against the upcoming opponents, he will need to step on the gas on offense, give these guys a chance at least; hell, tell them the ball is coming deep, be ready to go up after it when it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I find it weird that Gruden is bad a clock management, because in order to coach in the Arena League, the last minute of the halves are the points in the game where the most strategy is. Each team can literally score 3 or 4 times within the last minute of an Arena League game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 6 hours ago, wit33 said: I agree that Stafford made some incredible plays and was a difference maker in the game. Stafford appears to be on the cusp of putting it all together, his play recently certainly supports that. My point with Kirk, most all systems are attempting to suit the QB, but the better QBs make plays outside of the call from time to time. The defense gets paid as well, so the QB position at times requires some improv. Well, the better QBs are expected to do this. It's unrealistic for coaches each week or every play to make the correct call for each situation, this is where better QBs are able to create and extend plays outside of the concept. Some QB extend plays, some QB'S just change the play before the snap to exploit weaknesses. Very few do both. Kirk and Brady will change a play to exploit a weakness. That is their ability to "extend a play" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, William Barbour said: Some QB extend plays, some QB'S just change the play before the snap to exploit weaknesses. Very few do both. Kirk and Brady will change a play to exploit a weakness. That is their ability to "extend a play" I don't think it's true that "very few do both" of those things. Most of the upper-tier QBs (by that I mean the top-10, not the top-3) get their team into the right play and can climb or slide in the pocket to buy time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 So we have been giving major passes on our WRs kind of drawing the forgone conclusion they are elite and its Cousins that could be better. if you remember last year, our WRs had a healthy dose of YAP but this year this is not the case. For example DJax had 5 catches but he seemed to get tackled right away. Also I have not seen many screens called this year, last year we were successful on such plays. I truly believe some of our issues are play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 15 hours ago, Destino said: The entire problem for the Redskins offense, Kirk included, is the redzone offense. The Redskins offensive stats are fantastic and they sit in the top ten in essentially every major category with a notable exception: percentage of red zone drives that result in TDs. We were significantly better last season. Coaches are going to have to figure out what's going wrong and make some adjustment. Garcon made some tough catches last year and caught 6 TDs, but Kirk hasn't been going to him as much in RZ it seems. He'll make a contested catch as long as it's not a jump ball. So far in 7 games Pierre has 30 catches, 20 were for 1st downs and only 1 was a TD. He should get more chances in the RZ. Josh Doctson being drafted tells me they were very aware of this problem, maybe as much as or more than the contracts for WR 1 & 2 coming up. The size of our #1 receiver has been an issue since when? A long time considering Moss (with no help at WR) was the man for so long before Pierre and Jackson. It would be nice to have the rookie out there, but we don't yet. The read option play was good to have on film for teams to see, and now have to prepare for. They could build off that with a RZ package to get scoring up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyBo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I post this every other week, I feel like, but I'm just flabbergasted that people think we shouldn't hang on to Cousins. Flabbergasted. I honestly wouldn't blame him if he walks. We deserve every bad thing that will happen if we let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 You guys act like Garcon and Jackson are a top 5 WR combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Sometime it seems Cousins is playing checkers out there when a game of chess is going on. There will always be situations where it is the best play to go with whatever you see pre-snap. Especially when the pass rush is getting to you and you need to salvage the play to get some yardage. However there are also times that what you see pre-snap, is a fake or a disguise and things happen after the snap that change where the ball should go. It is situations like these that I feel Cousins sometimes gets tunnel vision on where he thinks the ball should go despite say someone on the other side wide open 30 yards downfield due to a broken coverage, or a favorable matchup that happened due to something he couldn't predict pre-snap. We've seen it on film and in games this season where he's been making a lot of those short safe throws to Jordan Reed when Garcon, Jackson, Crowder are open over the top for huge gains or even routes that could go to the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulSkin Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 No idea if this has been on youtube for a while or what, but the team just tweeted this out. If you have a desire to watch the Bucs game from last year, here ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyBo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I feel like we need to somehow keep things in perspective here. If I have time, every week, I'm going to post where Cousins ranks in some categories vs the rest of the NFL. Through Week 7: Passing yards: 6th Yards/G: 7th Completion %: 14th YPC: 15th 1st Down: Tied/6th 1st Down %: 21st Longest play: 27th Pass Plays of 20+ yds: 6th Pass Plays of 40+ yds: Tied/12th Passing TDs: 10th Rush TDs: Tied/7th INT: Tied/7th Rating: 92.3/18th Fourth Quarter Comebacks: 2 (and led Redskins to lead in Detroit with 1:05 left to play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, William Barbour said: Kirk and Brady will change a play to exploit a weakness. That is their ability to "extend a play" Spot on. This is what I've been saying since forever. I don't ever see Kirk becoming a guy who extends plays or improvises all the time. Here and there, sure. But it's just not who he is. What he can become, were he to get to an elite level, is the type of guy who can see the entire field well, knows what the defense is doing, and always knows how to attack a defense by getting us into the perfect play against it or knowing what guy will be open based on the route concepts in that given play. He's pretty good in that regard already, but he can certainly get better. That's his ceiling for me. That's what excites me the most about him. I don't get excited thinking he's going to start juking people and breaking ankles in the backfield, lol. I'll be happy if he makes just one of those type of plays a game. I'd rather him continue to improve at finding the open guy and/or exploiting a coverage breakdown. I love it when he walks up to the line, says something after he saw the defense, then hits his guy. That's awesome. We haven't seen that from a QB here in forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 and also comparing to Tom Brady is unfair. He is the best QB ever to play the position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 44 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said: Spot on. This is what I've been saying since forever. I don't ever see Kirk becoming a guy who extends plays or improvises all the time. Here and there, sure. But it's just not who he is. What he can become, were he to get to an elite level, is the type of guy who can see the entire field well, knows what the defense is doing, and always knows how to attack a defense by getting us into the perfect play against it or knowing what guy will be open based on the route concepts in that given play. I agree with the post with the small exception of I can see Kirk ultimately becoming a guy who extends plays. I was thinking about it some ironically watching Stafford. I don't recall Stafford moving so much in the pocket and extending plays early in his career but in the last two seasons the dude almost looks at times like Aaron Rodgers when it comes to pocket movement. Kirk I'd say is slightly above average athletically for a QB, his 40 time is only a little behind Rodgers -- and he seems to be a relentless self-improvement guy where he strives for that next step. My point is it might not happen right away but I can see Kirk eventually become above average at moving around the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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