2016 Roster Thread (Building a Champion Edition) - Doct to IR - Mo Harris Up

[PigskinRedskin]

I believe our defense got a little stronger, especially with the addition of Norman, but I also think it has to do with the consistency of whom we have. Yeah, we lost Pot Roast and Paea but generally, our core is still there.

I think the continuity of players and coaches will be more important than just adding in new players. Look at what we did to Bree's and Co., absolutely dominated them defensively. I think we take another step forward on defense and I don't think offense is too much of an issue, continue to gel. 

I am quite excited to see everything click.

[Going Commando]

18 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think it's interesting that people continue to blame our run defense on the DL.  The DL is certainly weak, but I am surprised that people don't discuss our lack of talent at ILB more than they do.  Last year, Compton and Foster sucked against the run.  Everyone says Compton has made big strides this year, but I still think his limitations will be exposed.  Hopefully the addition of Spaight will be helpful.  In short, I'm not sure our ILBs on paper are any more impressive than our DL.  

 

Agreed.  Our safety play was bad too.  Hard to stop the run with lousy second level defenders in the middle of the field.

You're right that our ILBs aren't very impressive, but that could change depending on how Spaight and Cravens play.  I wish Daniels hadn't gotten hurt.  He's an old school thumper and we could have used his toughness and discipline in the middle.

Bruton is steady and I think a healthy Nacho would have made a big difference in the quality of our SS play last season.  Hopefully we get better play at that spot too.

[JSSkinz]

17 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

You mean 24th?  Anyways, was the blame put on the Gs DL, like it generally is here?   Many argue it ALL starts in the trenches.

I don't think our defense was ALL that much better - I see us at 22. What made us "better" may be argued a weak sauce schedule IIRC, but we also forced fumbles, something that we had heard preached for decades, but Barry made it happen somehow.  Preston, Will Compton Blackmon, Baker, and Breeland led the attack.

 

 

They gave up the most yards on defense in the entire NFL, not sure what other way there is to measure a defense.

 

[TSO]

49 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I am still wondering what happened to Keenan, and also wondering how he is good enough to be now starting for the GMen.

 

Except, he's not:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/08/giants_lb_keenan_robinson_steps_up_despite_back_in.html

Quote

Ironically, Robinson wound up playing more than expected against the Jets. Starting weak side linebacker Jonathan Casillas left with a rib injury on the game's opening drive and Robinson took his place.

Robinson, who had mostly seen time in sub packages this preseason, logged 37 snaps and recorded four tackles in the expanded role. The 6-foot-3, 238-pounder was constantly around the ball

 

According to the official team depth chart he's a backup at the Will position, behind Casillas:

POS	FIRST	SECOND	THIRD	OTHER
LDE	Jason Pierre-Paul	Kerry Wynn	Romeo Okwara
LDT	Damon Harrison	Jay Bromley
RDT	Johnathan Hankins	Robert Thomas
RDE	Olivier Vernon	Owa Odighizuwa
SLB	Devon Kennard	Mark Herzlich
MLB	Kelvin Sheppard	B.J. Goodson
WLB	Jonathan Casillas	Keenan Robinson	J.T. Thomas
LCB	Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie	Eli Apple	Leon Hall
SS	Landon Collins	Nat Berhe
FS	Nat Berhe	Mykkele Thompson	Darian Thompson
RCB	Janoris Jenkins	Trevin Wade

[RandyHolt]

25 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

They gave up the most yards on defense in the entire NFL, not sure what other way there is to measure a defense.

.... Chart with Accurate Year

 

OOPS my bads

[dckey]

Question???????  How bad was our run defense with Foster and Compton on the field together????  Don't want to just go by the numbers, but it seems like the last 5 weeks is when Foster started and Compton started the last 10.  Just wondered if our defense was better than the beginning of the year when everyone was running on us. 

[nemocystem]

I love the 34...i understand that we run a hybrid D that more closely resembles what NE, & Carolina runs scheme-wise than any other D.  It just is what we do...not much there to discuss.

I think anyone would agree that having he-man space-eaters would be preferable.  Necessary?  Not, ahem, necessarily.

 

But...you know...I'm not gonna get all huffy about it.  I'm just going to trust in the process, & allow the staff to sink or swim on their own public assessments.  Besides...i really didn't see anyone, outside of giving up two 1's for Wilkerson, who would have made any real difference.  

 

I say...let it grow.

[JSSkinz]

Is it normal that  Kendall Reyes would need to be on the side doing conditioning drills this late in the preseason?

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, dckey said:

Question???????  How bad was our run defense with Foster and Compton on the field together????  Don't want to just go by the numbers, but it seems like the last 5 weeks is when Foster started and Compton started the last 10.  Just wondered if our defense was better than the beginning of the year when everyone was running on us. 

I am interested in the same, but think its going to be a tough piece of info to ascertain.

Our passing attack and offense was on FIRE those last 5 weeks. Teams likely needed to pass an awful lot to try to keep up with the Cousins to Reed Express. If they did run a lot, I suspect they were mercy runs, accepting defeat and taking the loss the way they should, by admitting failure and giving our fans hearts a rare rest. We were likely happy to let them run out the clock on themselves in a preventy win look. 

I personally prefer to judge playoff performance heavily, given the data set. I suspect they graded poorly vs GB. GB ran HU vs our DL which gassed them. it was our ILBs chance to save the day. It didn't happen. But I will readily suggest that we were also out coached that day.  

[GoSkins0721]

22 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I personally prefer to judge playoff performance heavily, given the data set. I suspect they graded poorly vs GB. GB ran HU vs our DL which gassed them. it was our ILBs chance to save the day. It didn't happen. But I will readily suggest that we were also out coached that day.  

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with Compton that game. Maybe it was my untrained eye, but he seemed to be lost/blocked when he should have been making tackles closer to the LOS. 

And McVay will agree with you on being out coached. He mentioned as much about 1 call he made in that game that he wished he had back (wish I could find the article I read recently where he was talking about it). Anyway, I'm sure there was more than 1 call he would do differently. BUT, I also will bet he learned & won't make those same mistakes. 

I think Barry may have been out coached as well. But he was also using guys on defense that were signed the week before the game. As he had been most of the 2nd half of the season with the DBs. That was a freaking mess and is overlooked by some people talking about the D play last year. I'm too lazy to look but they must have used 15 different players starting at CB/S last year because of injuries.

 

[nemocystem]

also...ftr...i believe people are gonna eat their words on Compton.  he's gonna make it tough for Spaight to get time at Mike.  Compton is diagnosing plays with aplomb at this rate, & i expect this to continue as the season begins.

i could be wrong, & i'll admit to it if it should go down that way.  but i really believe he's gonna flash this season.

[Conn]

I think people are generally high on Compton, right? Haven't seen too many doubters.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, RandyHolt said:

I too am not sold on Compton. In a traditional 34 the insides should be free for lots of tackles and they should be easy to see.  Maybe our defense is more complex than it needs to be, because outside of some late season Foster, our insiders were invisible most of the year. Haters of the 34 quickly hear that we are rarely in the 34. Yet, we run the 34 and all our players are cut from the molds of a 34 starting with a 330 pound Keds as our nose, and huge outside backers.

I am still wondering what happened to Keenan, and also wondering how he is good enough to be now starting for the GMen.

Hi all. I was wondering the same thing about Keenan since I watched him playing for the nats. I did see him getting beat on a few pass plays and I want to know if we will miss him this year or was he expendable? Did we replace him with someone better?                                                                                                                 As far as the Green Bay game my take was that they pushed our guys all over the field on Offence and Defense  that day and I sat there thinking that they had a hell of a lot good football players and we had just a few. Simple as that                                                                                                                                                                               

[RandyHolt]

I am not down on Compton, I just don't haven't seen him making the plays I expect. Sadly, I more noticed the opposite. We got gashed in run D - pretty much all year. I doubt anyone saw him dominate vs the run last year. I noticed Foster much more. 

Barry's defensive approach seems to vary widely from week to week. He opened in a bend don't break week 1, and then varied it after that. He rarely brought more than 5, so I doubt we run blitz much, largely playing the pass perhaps.

I know, we don't really run a 34.  Ok then who in the a 4-3 under with a bunch of guys built for a 34; should easily log 10+ tackles on Monday night?  Or, does the Barry defense rely heavily on DBs making the tackle.... hence the 15 DBs limping last year.... hence the overloading of DBs to start the year. Their aren't built to lead the team in tackles. 

I wonder if his D does not use its ILBs to their strengths - usually it's simply aggressiveness for guys on D. 

We need someone to grab the bull by the horns and whack a back this year, and stop the bleeding. 

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Agreed.  Our safety play was bad too.  Hard to stop the run with lousy second level defenders in the middle of the field.

You're right that our ILBs aren't very impressive, but that could change depending on how Spaight and Cravens play.  I wish Daniels hadn't gotten hurt.  He's an old school thumper and we could have used his toughness and discipline in the middle.

Bruton is steady and I think a healthy Nacho would have made a big difference in the quality of our SS play last season.  Hopefully we get better play at that spot too.

Man, agreed on all points - SS, Daniels, Cravens, etc.  Nice post.

I find myself thinking of that Chargers video with Joe Barry explaining.... uh, something.  Anyway, it seemed apparent last year that he missed that 'force' player he referenced - the safety that could roll up and play run.  To my layman' eyes, he tried using his ILBs in that regard (after the safeties - Robinson/Johnson, etc struggled with missed tackles), which put a burden on them getting to the outside.  Hopefully Bruton/Ihenacho plus Cravens' athleticism helps solve that issue.  

Norman is an upgrade over Blackmon vs the run and Hall is an underrated player vs the run (huge strides since early in his career, IMO).  

 

My my bigger concern than the Dline stopping the run is Compton (and Foster, to a lesser extent).  I've said before that I think he'd fit better behind a 2 gap line.  That's why I was so excited about Daniels - dude took on blockers like crazy.  I think that's why PFF had us drafting him in the 3rd (believe they rated Compton pretty horribly against the run).  Here's hoping Comptons's attitude, intelligence and leadership result in a net positive. 

[Master Blaster]

4 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

Is it normal that  Kendall Reyes would need to be on the side doing conditioning drills this late in the preseason?

 

 

He has an injured groin. 

[crabbypatty]

So there's no in season twitter junk drawer thread since the other one closed?

Are any of the mod approved thread starters gonna make one?

[zoony]

8 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

So there's no in season twitter junk drawer thread since the other one closed?

Are any of the mod approved thread starters gonna make one?

There is a Twitter feed on the ES start page

 

if you see something on Twitter you'd like to discuss feel free to start a thread on it. But no, there will not be a Stream of consciousness Twitter thread this year.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, nemocystem said:

also...ftr...i believe people are gonna eat their words on Compton.  he's gonna make it tough for Spaight to get time at Mike.  Compton is diagnosing plays with aplomb at this rate, & i expect this to continue as the season begins.

i could be wrong, & i'll admit to it if it should go down that way.  but i really believe he's gonna flash this season.

As I was writing my previous post (referencing Compton), you come up with this zinger.

 

I have high hopes for Compton, I just saw S and ILB as our bigger culprits against the run last year.  SIP and I went back and forth - I thought our safeties (particularly those not named Hall and Ihenacho) were our main weakness vs the run while SIP (referencing John Keim) argued that ILB was the bigger weakness.  I believe we both agreed that probably more fault rested with them than the other units/positions.

 

Compton certainly seems like a heady player (I've been a fan for a long while), but I am a bit concerned about his physical traits in this scheme.  With that said, I'm excited to see him in action... particularly with Cravens at his side.  Think he'll show a lot of growth.  Was very happy to see him get a captaincy.  

[goskins10]

6 hours ago, dckey said:

Question???????  How bad was our run defense with Foster and Compton on the field together????  Don't want to just go by the numbers, but it seems like the last 5 weeks is when Foster started and Compton started the last 10.  Just wondered if our defense was better than the beginning of the year when everyone was running on us. 

 

I don't have an answer for your specific question. However, while many are really trashing our D last year because of the yards - I want to remind those people of a few things:

1. The def was hit with injuries at a rate that is absolutely ridiculous. Per USA today we were the 2nd most injured team in the NFL - much of that was on D. Most of our secondary outside of Breeland, were 3rd string or worse. I know the popular mantra is "next man up.!" Sorry, that's bull****. Kenny Lofton - an actual NFL player stated that while that's the message, the fact is the starters were starters for a reason. Maybe one or two guys in a few positions are able to actually step in and do a good job, but once you get past 2nd string, it gets really dicey. We had a guy playing slot CB in the GB game that joined the team that same week and 4 other guys not even on the 53 man roster or the PS to start the season! 

2. While yds yds/gm were really bad - and has to get better - these very important metrics saw great improvement:

Pts/gm - + 12 spots in pts/ gm from 29th to 17th! The highest we have been since 2008 (6th)!!! 

3rd Down Eff up 12 spots from 24th to 12th!

TOs - up 17 spots - from 26th to 9th!!!   

And that's with all those injuries!

I am not saying that we are looking at a top 10 D. I agree the Dline could be better. But teams that are built right are best as the sum of their parts, not the impact of a single player. Let's see how these guys play together. With a huge improvement in the secondary and if nothing else continuity at LB and at least the same ability at Dline (although I think they will be a little better, not great but better) they could just surprise.

[daveakl]

30 minutes ago, zoony said:

There is a Twitter feed on the ES 

Is there a way to filter it? It's so full of non-redskins related tweets. Unless you review it every hour or two it's impossible to catch up. 

[RedBeast]

51 minutes ago, zoony said:

There is a Twitter feed on the ES start page

 

And is that available via mobile? I can't hit that at all via Android.

And PS...ALL HAIL @HapHaszard and @SWFLSkins for their dedication and diligence in making those threads all that they were...#1 ES hits of all time? I think that everyday those threads are missed by many.

 :thumbsup

[Koolblue13]

I think Compton starting, owning the MIKE is going to be huge. He's smart af too and gets it.

I also think foster sucks, but spaight buys anything and Cravens shouldn't be there.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

but spaight buys anything and Cravens shouldn't be there.

What does this mean? 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

What does this mean? 

Spaight gets tricked by play fakes and needs to learn how to not get washed by blockers and Cravens is not a ILB