Spaceman Spiff Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 history is not relevant when actions are being scrutinized? History isn't relevant when you have an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 history is not relevant when actions are being scrutinized? It is relevant if there is some sort of direct correlation and there was no objective evidence (just eyewitnesses, etc). But when there is video evidence that certainly seems to show that the guy was not an immediate threat to the lives of the cops and they shot him point blank anyway, then bringing up his past misdeeds just looks like a way to obfuscate and change the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 It is relevant if there is some sort of direct correlation and there was no objective evidence (just eyewitnesses, etc). But when there is video evidence that certainly seems to show that the guy was not an immediate threat to the lives of the cops and they shot him point blank anyway, then bringing up his past misdeeds just looks like a way to obfuscate and change the subject. funny the videos I saw did not show his right hand ....the one by his gun if that helps immediate means what to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I get all the outrage about the MN shooting but the LA shooting I can think of several ways that was plenty justifiable. This is why I want to wait for the investigation. I don't know why so many want to rush to judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I agree. The MN shooting can't and shouldn't be justified in any manner. The LA shooting needs more facts before we can come to our own conclusion. That being said? If his rap sheet is as it appears? There's nothing wrong with assuming there's a correlation between his past and what transpired prior to what we saw on video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 funny the videos I saw did not show his right hand ....the one by his gun if that helps immediate means what to you? You can see his right hand on and off after the one cop yells about the gun; it appears to be up around his chest but it comes in and out of view. I agree that it isn't cut and dried, though. As far as "immediate", when talking about potentially killing someone, I'd say it means that the guy is in a position to actually shoot the cop. To me, the pistol being in his pocket doesn't count as that, especially when he has two cops sitting on top of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 . That being said, the people who are talking about how he was a good guy, etc are usually relatives and loved ones. I think they certainly have a right to talk about the person they loved who was killed; they're grieving and that's what people do when they grieve for someone they lost. And no one is arguing that or preventing them from doing that. But it seems that there is always someone or some group on the right that feels they absolutely have to "counter" the people who are saying good things about the guy, whether it is relevant or not. Right, because there never is someone or some group on the left, that feels they absolutely have to portray the guy only in the best of light, whether it is relevant or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Minnesota protest reportedly turning violent https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751970817475510272 https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751974198701096960 https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751974669109125120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 the law differs from you on immediate.....if it was two civilians it changes the +1 force rule authorizes preemption to protect both the public and officers if a perceived danger exists of course it must be justified by the evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 the law differs from you on immediate.....if it was two civilians it changes the +1 force rule authorizes preemption to protect both the public and officers if a perceived danger exists of course it must be justified by the evidence Right. It just comes down to the interpretation of the evidence. I guess we'll see what happens in court (assuming there is an indictment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 history is not relevant when actions are being scrutinized? Let's say that I'm a really nice guy. In my off hours, I teach kids how to read, go to a soup kitchen to feed the hungry, help build houses with Jimmy Carter, and donate really heavily to the church. After that, I spend time in a nursing home chatting with the residents and playing cards with them. On the way home, I try to beat a red light and hit your car. Do you care that I'm a nice guy and do all that nice stuff? Do I have to pay to fix the damage or are you going to wave it off? History can matter in the big picture, but in the snap shot it doesn't. If you are pulled over for a random traffic stop... all that other stuff, good and bad, is probably unknown. It's just what happens in the moment that counts. How you act. How they act. What you say. How they take it. Unless you are saying that policemen are omniscient and know every single thing about every moment of your life and therefore can be judge, jury, and executioner because they can see the sum of all your sins in the moment they pull you over for having a broken turn signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I have noticed things negative can't be said about a "victim" but positive things can, with no proof required to back them up. Yet one is relevant and one isnt. Neither is relevant, but people feel compelled to try to counteract one irrelevant thing with another irrlevant thing. And then that's how a conversation gets sidetracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Minnesota protest reportedly turning violent https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751970817475510272 https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751974198701096960 https://mobile.twitter.com/BNONews/status/751974669109125120 Unacceptable. Protests are important. Keep your cool or you lose the argument. You'll never get the change you desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 I agree. The MN shooting can't and shouldn't be justified in any manner. The LA shooting needs more facts before we can come to our own conclusion. That being said? If his rap sheet is as it appears? There's nothing wrong with assuming there's a correlation between his past and what transpired prior to what we saw on video. When is the public assuming correlations trying to fill in the blanks ever a good thing? If the police roll up on this guy and know he has priors and want to behave accordingly, that's one thing. But the public doing that after the fact without all the info is dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 So the guy has a sheet a mile long that includes illegal gun possession and violent behavior. Gee, what a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Ok..quick kinda unrelated question....is that rap sheet the same guy who mentors children ? Because he apparently is a sex offender and has carnal knowledge of a minor. That's a whole nother level of fail for the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Ok..quick kinda unrelated question....is that rap sheet the same guy who mentors children ? Because he apparently is a sex offender and has carnal knowledge of a minor. That's a whole nother level of fail for the system. No, you're getting your black victims mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 This is an interesting segment that I saw on Reddit this morning about the split second decisions police must make and a protestor who was invited to try use of force scenarios. I think it is worth the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Seen that vid before. And like I said before, if giving a person with no training whatsoever, and a "shoot/dont shoot" mindset is an accurate way of illustrating what your average cop experiences, then things make more sense than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Don't know how reputable this site is, but "uh oh" were the first words to pop iny head. http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/07/09/mn-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Don't know how reputable this site is, but "uh oh" were the first words to pop iny head. http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/07/09/mn-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/ SNOPES seems to think the evidence is pretty good that he had a CCW. http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile-was-not-wanted-for-armed-robbery/ The audio was given to a MN tv station, but they do not seem to have verified that it was authentic. And it always possible that the cop lied to them when he pulled them over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Don't know how reputable this site is, but "uh oh" were the first words to pop iny head. http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/07/09/mn-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/ Somehow I'm thinking that the assertion that they were pulled over for "a broken taillight" when in reality it was they "fit the description of a robbery suspect" (they were black) really doesn't do anything but support the idea that police profiled and he probably had an itchy trigger finger because he considered them robbery suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 http://www.wbrz.com/news/101-arrested-during-overnight-protests/ 101 arrested during overnight protests By Sunday morning, 101 people had been booked into jail related to protests outside Baton Rouge Police Headquarters Saturday. For the second day, hundreds gathered outside the department's facility on Airline Highway at the Goodwood intersection. Tensions reached reached a boiling point between protesters and police. The crowd gathered in response to the shooting death of Alton Sterling who was shot and killed by Baton Rouge Police in the parking lot of the Triple S store on North Foster Drive and Fairfields Tuesday. Baton Rouge Police and other law enforcement were seen clad in full riot gear Saturday evening. Shields, helmets, rifles and vests were visible. At the scene, protesters could be seen throwing water on police which caused things to quickly escalate. More protests are planned for Sunday. Baton Rouge Police and other law enforcement were seen clad in full riot gear Saturday evening. Shields, helmets, rifles and vests were visible. At the scene, protesters could be seen throwing water on police which caused things to quickly escalate. While WBRZ was on the scene, one by one, protesters were escorted to a waiting prisoner bus before they were carted off to jail. Earlier in the day things remained peaceful as people demonstrated in a calm manner. Marcus Johnson said no one was looking for trouble. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/10/us/black-lives-matter-protests/ Hundreds arrested in protests over shootings by police After another night of intense, and sometimes violent, protests against the police shootings of black men, hundreds of demonstrators were either in jail or waiting to get out as the sun came up Sunday. At least 198 people were arrested in New York and Chicago and in St. Paul, Minnesota, and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where two black men were shot to death by police. The killings were captured on cell phones and have sparked several days of protests. Black Lives Matter activist DeRay Mckesson, a public school administrator who is considered among the movement's loudest voices, was among 125 people arrested Saturday night in Baton Rouge. Mckesson was protesting the death of Alton Sterling. On Tuesday, Sterling, 37, was near a convenience store where he regularly sold CDs and DVDs. A homeless man approached him and asked for money, becoming so persistent that Sterling showed him his gun, a source told CNN. Police were called. Cell phone videos captured two officers wrestling Sterling to the ground and shooting him. On Saturday night, Mckesson was walking along a major roadway and live-streamed his arrest for obstruction on Saturday on Periscope. In St. Paul, about 50 protesters were arrested. They were demonstrating against the killing of Philando Castile, a school nutrition services supervisor. Last week, Castile was driving a car and was with his girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, when they were pulled over for a broken taillight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Somehow I'm thinking that the assertion that they were pulled over for "a broken taillight" when in reality it was they "fit the description of a robbery suspect" (they were black) really doesn't do anything but support the idea that police profiled and he probably had an itchy trigger finger because he considered them robbery suspects. And wow...robbery. Of cigarettes. That's way up there on the list of people who need shootin'. Sheesh. But don't forget that NC case about the officer ignorant of the law. We average citizens can't be *ignorance of the law is not a defense* but police officers can be. Craziest **** I've ever heard. Seriously. The craziest....well, Trump for President is certainly going to take the lead at some point, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Good to see the dumbasses protesting violence with violence. Hard to get any sympathy when you're killing and maiming cops that have done nothing wrong. Yes I know it works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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