BREAKING: Shooting at BLM Protest in Dallas

[Burgold]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/us/texas-police-shooting-hero/

 

The only thing I see is your blindness

Exceptions that prove the rule. There are 10's of thousands of gun related deaths a year. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US. If the good guy with a gun myth were real you'd be able to find thousands of these stories. 

 

I'm grateful when tragedies are prevented or limited. The fact of the matter is far more damage is done with handguns than good. The fact of the matter is far more damage is done with AR-15s than good by an incredible degree.

[twa]

there are thousands of instances a good guy with a gun prevents things....maybe you should search them out

 

gun related deaths is a rather wide subject

[SoCalSkins]

They labeled a guy who was seen walking around with an AR as a person of interest. Unless I'm mistaken, the media outlets are the ones that then ran with him as a "suspect".

And as far as the robot is concerned, what are they supposed to do? He had already shot 10 people, killing 5 of them. Should they continue with this shootout and lose more people simply so someone like you doesn't freak out that they used a robot?

Unbelievable. This is as dumb as arguing about using the guys middle initial as some sort of racist attack.

The Dallas PD official Twitter labeled him a suspect. They left it up for over 24 hours.

What did they do before they had robotic bombs? This is a very slippery slope. What if the guy surrendered at the last minute?

If the SWAT team can't neutralize a single individual in an unfortified parkiing structure or they feel it is too high risk to do their jobs, they should call the governor for assistance from another department and start looking for another line of work.

The use of drones or remote controlled robots to kill Americans by a local police department is not acceptable. They chose a very favorable set of facts to set the precedent, but it's not an acceptable use of force in my opinion.

[Burgold]

The Dallas PD official Twitter labeled him a suspect. They left it up for over 24 hours.

What did they do before they had robotic bombs? This is a very slippery slope. What if the guy surrendered at the last minute?

I'm a little less worried about that than collateral damage. What if someone was hiding that the police didn't know about when they set the bomb off? I do imagine in some situations that the best option for public safety is taking out the target, but but at what point is it worth the risk? What are acceptable losses?

[balki1867]

They labeled a guy who was seen walking around with an AR as a person of interest. Unless I'm mistaken, the media outlets are the ones that then ran with him as a "suspect".

 

You are mistaken.

 

[twa]

What did they do before they had robotic bombs? This is a very slippery slope. What if the guy surrendered at the last minute?

If the SWAT team can't neutralize a single individual in an unfortified parkiing structure or they feel it is too high risk to do their jobs, they should call the governor for assistance from another department and start looking for another line of work.

The use of drones or remote controlled robots to kill Americans by a local police department is not acceptable. They chose a very favorable set of facts to set the precedent, but it's not an acceptable use of force in my opinion.

 

why do you object to not needlessly exposing officers to the IED's claimed by the turd?...serious question

 

drones and remote controlled robots and not much different than any other stand off weapon....at least till we unleash the ones we are working on 

[TheGoodBits]

I'm a little less worried about that than collateral damage. What if someone was hiding that the police didn't know about when they set the bomb off? I do imagine in some situations that the best option for public safety is taking out the target, but but at what point is it worth the risk? What are acceptable losses?

I'm not sure if they said what kind of device they used but I have been envisioning a claymore, basically an anti personnel directional mine that acts as a shotgun on steroids. The robot could drive around the corner, quickly identify via the onboard cameras that nobody else was there, and detonate the device with all the metal balls directed in the same general area. That would also likely preserve the rather expensive robot, which is another reason I figured that's what they probably used.

why do you object to not needlessly exposing officers to the IED's claimed by the turd?...serious question

drones and remote controlled robots and not much different than any other stand off weapon....at least till we unleash the ones we are working on

Agree with this. Driving a bomb in via robot and manually detonating it isn't fundamentally different than a cop walking around the corner and shooting the suspect... Primary difference is the level of personal risk you are asking of the police force that already suffered enough losses that night. I have no issues with the tactics employed.

[SoCalSkins]

I'm a little less worried about that than collateral damage. What if someone was hiding that the police didn't know about when they set the bomb off? I do imagine in some situations that the best option for public safety is taking out the target, but but at what point is it worth the risk? What are acceptable losses?

I don't trust a local police department to make reasonable choices with regards to identifying an immediate deadly threath or making rational decisions regarding collateral damage in using remote controlled bombs or drones. Particularly in a future incident when the situation is not being broadcast on tv. This was a very good case to set the precedent without any blow back, but I think it is not a tactic that should be available to local police in any circumstance.

[Taylor703]

I don't trust a local police department to make reasonable choices with regards to identifying an immediate deadly threath or making rational decisions regarding collateral damage in using remote controlled bombs or drones. Particularly in a future incident when the situation is not being broadcast on tv. This was a very good case to set the precedent without any blow back, but I think it is not a tactic that should be available to local police in any circumstance.

So you think we should risk more lives when we don't have too?

You are mistaken.

My apologies. I was wrong.

[twa]

I don't trust a local police department to make reasonable choices with regards to identifying an immediate deadly threath or making rational decisions regarding collateral damage in using remote controlled bombs or drones. Particularly in a future incident when the situation is not being broadcast on tv. This was a very good case to set the precedent without any blow back, but I think it is not a tactic that should be available to local police in any circumstance.

 

you do not need to trust them anymore than you already do with deadly force, every use of deadly force is reviewed.....and they already have the deadly force right(as do we all) 

[RonArtest15]

See he was open carrying or it was under his shirt but you could tell it was there? I wish we could open carry here in FL but I know we can't because of stupid people like the ones in the picture at target. Some people will carry huge pistols and rifles just to show off. I would rather open carry just for comfort sake. Depending on what I'm wearing a gun in my waist band isn't alloys comfortable. But if I were to open carry it would be the same pistol I use for conceal carry, not some huge hand cannon meant to intimidate. Now as for why, just the same as with how we carry people do it for different reasons. Some think they will get to play Captain America. Those are the vocal minority. Most of use do it for personal protection and that is all.

 

Open carrying....shirt was tucked over the glock. 

 

I have ZERO issue with it being concealed, and I do believe in the right to bear arms (to an extent,) however, what this guy was doing, to me, was the equivalent of someone driving a truck with testicles hanging off the back.  All cut from the same cloth LOL. 

[SoCalSkins]

So you think we should risk more lives when we don't have too?

If a police department can't reasonably neutralize a single individual armed with a widely available weapon, that weapon should be banned immediately and every police union should be advocating for the ban. They should not resort to remote controlled bombs or drones.

[twa]

Open carrying....shirt was tucked over the glock. 

 

I have ZERO issue with it being concealed, and I do believe in the right to bear arms (to an extent,) however, what this guy was doing, to me, was the equivalent of someone driving a truck with testicles hanging off the back.  All cut from the same cloth LOL. 

 

was he perhaps a detective/plainclothes officer ect?

 

I prefer others to have their guns visible while I hide mine.

[Burgold]

So you think we should risk more lives when we don't have too?

 

It's an interesting ethical argument. At what point do we say F it... no trial, no due process, no attempt to capture just execution.

 

Clearly, there are appropriate times for public safety when the best and perhaps only option is to eliminate the threat, but that does get us into a debatable area of when to draw that line. We also would need to consider disparities in use of force. Do we overuse force in certain situations or against certain populations and would this lead to even more abuse in this area?

 

I think it's a particularly important consideration in a Black Lives Matter-based thread.

[twa]

If a police department can't reasonably neutralize a single individual armed with a widely available weapon, that weapon should be banned immediately and every police union should be advocating for the ban. They should not resort to remote controlled bombs or drones.

 

IED's are banned....why do you ignore that clearly stated threat?

[TheGreatBuzz]

Open carrying....shirt was tucked over the glock.

I have ZERO issue with it being concealed, and I do believe in the right to bear arms (to an extent,) however, what this guy was doing, to me, was the equivalent of someone driving a truck with testicles hanging off the back. All cut from the same cloth LOL.

If he was carrying a glock I don't have a problem with it. It's the idiots carrying AR's and Desert Eagles that get in my nerves. As I said, open carry is far more comfortable than concealed. If he was carrying a glock, I don't think that is compares to the truck testicles. That's just me though.

[twa]

It's an interesting ethical argument. At what point do we say F it... no trial, no due process, no attempt to capture just execution.

 

 

 

 

It is little different than employing snipers, which we have used for generations.

 

appropriate concern for collateral damage is always a factor

[Burgold]

It is little different than employing snipers, which we have used for generations.

 

appropriate concern for collateral damage is always a factor

I'm not sure ethically if it's only a little different. I do see the similarity though. There's a coldness to removing the human from the trigger which makes killing easier. It's much easier to kill things on a video screen. Much easier to make that call too. It creates a remoteness.

 

Then again, I could be wrong. I do recall reading articles about drone operators who wound up suffering from trauma related symptoms.

[SoCalSkins]

IED's are banned....why do you ignore that clearly stated threat?

The police department also stated numerous other facts that turned out to be false. The new excuse will quickly become he threatened us with an IED instead of he reached for a gun. It is the first time an American police force has resorted to this tactic. I think it bears further discussion and standards to be clearly defined as to when or if ever it can be utilized. Call in the national guard if there is time, don't leave it to local departments that can easily abuse any additional powers or tactics they are given.

[twa]

if you paid attention you would know they used that 'excuse' from the start.....I'm sure they have recordings of the turd you can hear eventually.

 

and bomb making materials recovered.

 

I'm cool with not trusting cops....if you are sensible about it.

 

of course having the NG bring a airstrike or artillery barrage might be cool....since ya prefer military tactics  ....the property owners probably are insured.

[Jumbo]

I know it's just a take via media coverage from a distance, but I have been very impressed with the way the police chief, local law enforcement agencies, other officials, and the citizens of Dallas in general have responded.

 

I also noted with appreciation and respect how all reports show the protests had been going so impressively well in that entire area until the attack. And they're still holding that high standard.

 

Doing themselves and Texas proud in a very troubled and sad time. I admire all that---grateful too. IMO, communities all over would do well to model themselves after such behavior in such events.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

they let black folk carry guns here now w/o shooting them?....when did this nonsense start?

Obama. Once we secede, we'll get that straightened out.

See, I've been in TX for a week and I'm already getting things figured out.

[Larry]

I know it's just a take via media coverage from a distance, but I have been very impressed with the way the police chief, local law enforcement agencies, other officials, and the citizens of Dallas in general have responded.

 

I also noted with appreciation and respect how all reports show the protests had been going so impressively well in that entire area until the attack. And they're still holding that high standard.

 

Doing themselves and Texas proud in a very troubled and sad time. I admire all that---grateful too. IMO, communities all over would do well to model themselves after such behavior in such events.

 

Yeah, I think there's a whole lot of people who are doing things the right way, here.  On lots of different "sides". 

 

Heck, even the Presidential politicians have mostly kept their yaps shut.    Which might be some kind of a record. 

[Fergasun]

I know what you mean and I'd agree with you completely if he was at Target or whatever day to day bull**** and doing it just because. But it was a legitimate political statement being in the proper place at the proper time. And when the situation changed and it stopped being proper place/proper time, he turned the weapon and himself in. Not to mention it was unloaded the entire time. So yeah, that's just good citizenship in my book.

Yes, very good citizenship - but not very good 2nd amendment "full rights ship". The police easily disarmed him, falsely. The should be seen as a clear 2nd amendment violation - he was also named a suspect and that looks like a 5th amendment violation.

"Be shot or give up your gun"... smells like tyranny. Gun nuts should be up in arms over this, especially since he is the proverbial "good guy with a gun".

HastagSarcasm..

[Fergasun]

Referring to the shooting - I haven't found any information on specifically what/when/where shots were fired. Shouldn't we have more detail on what happened between shots fired and the gunmans movements? Did he not have a cell phone or other surveillance didn't exist?