Assorted Militia/SovCit news,(formerly Bundy thread)

[TradeTheBeal!]

The next white Christian revolt will probably be done slightly better.

Highly unlikely. Extremist Christianity, just like extremist Islam, only attracts the most very stupid segments of society. This is about as strong an effort as they could muster.

[The Sisko]

Sadly TTB, it doesn't take a whole lot of brainpower to hurt or kill a lot of people.

[tshile]

I'd love to be in the room when the first peon asks one of the 'leaders':

 

"why aren't they paying attention to us?"

 

i feel like the order to move the plow to block the driveway was probably their last possible effort to keep the spirit alive

[Larry]

I do hope there's a drone overhead. 

 

I mean, high altitude desert, in cold weather?  Seems like picture perfect (no pun intended) conditions for thermal imaging. 

 

They can send the county sheriff to go arrest these guys, after they go home. 

 

Monitor their comms, too.  Bet they get a load from that, too. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Highly unlikely. Extremist Christianity, just like extremist Islam, only attracts the most very stupid segments of society. This is about as strong an effort as they could muster.

Just a reminder that the "stupid segments of society" in relation to extremist Islam figured out a way to fly jets into the Pentagon and twin towers.  Never underestimate the power of stupid people with convictions.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Just a reminder that the "stupid segments of society" in relation to extremist Islam figured out a way to fly jets into the Pentagon and twin towers.  Never underestimate the power of stupid people with convictions.

They were well funded and not really religious at all. Lots of money coming from Pakistan and lotsa time spent at flight school and strip clubs. Not that dumb at all.

[TheGreatBuzz]

They were well funded and not really religious at all. Lots of money coming from Pakistan and lotsa time spent at flight school and strip clubs. Not that dumb at all.

Correct.  And there are a lot of wealthy idiots here also.  My point was don't write off all crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society".  I can use Tim McVey as an example if you'd prefer.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Correct.  And there are a lot of wealthy idiots here also.  My point was don't write off all crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society".  I can use Tim McVey as an example if you'd prefer.

Point taken.

[PleaseBlitz]

Correct.  And there are a lot of wealthy idiots here also.  My point was don't write off all crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society".  I can use Tim McVey as an example if you'd prefer.

 

I will write off THESE crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society."  They are ****ing up the unopposed occupation of a glorified shed in the middle of nowhere.

[Larry]

I will write off THESE crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society."  They are ****ing up the unopposed occupation of a glorified shed in the middle of nowhere.

 

You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

[Koolblue13]

I will write off THESE crazy extremists as "stupid segments of society." They are ****ing up the unopposed occupation of a glorified shed in the middle of nowhere.

I love that you're posting in here. This **** is gold.

[Corcaigh]

When this couldn't get any stranger ... PETA to the rescue ... offering Vegan jerky snacks to the cattle ranchers.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264931-peta-to-deliver-vegan-snacks-to-oregon-militia

 

 

And on the Y'All Qaeda theme ...

 

Edited January 6, 2016 by Corcaigh

[Destino]

You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

 

The politically correct term during election season is "real Americans".

[PleaseBlitz]

When this couldn't get any stranger ... PETA to the rescue ... offering Vegan jerky snacks to the cattle ranchers.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264931-peta-to-deliver-vegan-snacks-to-oregon-militia

 

 

And on the Y'All Qaeda theme ...

 

 

 

 

This is extra hilarious, as I was discussing my comparison of these numskulls to Occupy Wall Street with some friends earlier, and my takeaway was, and i quote from an earlier text message that i sent: "when it comes to provisions for occupying public parks, Nutella > beef jerky."

[@DCGoldPants]

Oregon native tribe uneasy with armed standoff over land rights

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0UK1FS20160106

[Mr. Sinister]

Damn. Total defeat mocked, starved, and now Peta comes to finish off the rest of what's left with vegan jerky. Instead of what they wanted, which was a firefight, or some show of force to make them martyrs and rally more to their cause, they are basically getting punked. I love it

Edited January 7, 2016 by Mr. Sinister

[The Sisko]

And on the Y'All Qaeda theme ...

 

OK, now I've got a new favorite. ROFLMAO

[Forehead]

The fact that PETA is mocking them aside, I don't like that they're being allowed to have food and visitors. Starve them out.

[Duckus]

[sacase]

Ignore them. They will go away. Then one night a month from now when they are all cozy in their homes, bust in and arrest them all when they think the Govt forgot about them. 

[DogofWar1]

The fact that PETA is mocking them aside, I don't like that they're being allowed to have food and visitors. Starve them out.

 

Yeah, it's absolutely hilarious, and on the one hand, I'd pay to help them get a camera in there to just see the looks on their faces (double money if we get audio), but on the other hand, this is still treasonous domestic terrorism and should be taken seriously.

 

Hilarious, stupid, easily mocked treasonous domestic terrorism, but still serious nonetheless.

[Larry]

This is neither treason nor terrorism.

They are not making war on the United States. Nor are they threatening civilians. (Or anybody else. I will point out that "if you kick in the door I'm hiding behind, I will shoot you" is only a "threat" to defend yourself.)

The things they're doing are illegal. I think it's a safe bet that they're committing multiple felonies. But let's not pull out the scary words when they don't apply.

[Renegade7]

This is neither treason nor terrorism.

They are not making war on the United States. Nor are they threatening civilians. (Or anybody else. I will point out that "if you kick in the door I'm hiding behind, I will shoot you" is only a "threat" to defend yourself.)

The things they're doing are illegal. I think it's a safe bet that they're committing multiple felonies. But let's not pull out the scary words when they don't apply.

I'd like to believe if the higher ups didn't agree with you, this would be over by now.

[tshile]

I would argue you lost the right to defend yourself when you seized property you don't own.

 

I also concede your opinion is way more adult, mature, and responsible. Mine is ridiculous. Which is why I'm not in charge of anything of importance.

[DogofWar1]

This is neither treason nor terrorism.

They are not making war on the United States.  Nor are they threatening civilians. (Or anybody else. I will point out that "if you kick in the door I'm hiding behind, I will shoot you" is only a "threat" to defend yourself.) 

The things they're doing are illegal. I think it's a safe bet that they're committing multiple felonies. But let's not pull out the scary words when they don't apply. 

 

Debatable, at a minimum.

 

18 USC 2381, Treason, says:

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

 

 

There are two key components there; 1) allegiance to the US and 2) levying war.

 

As much as they seem to hate the US government, they do say they are loyal to the US Constitution, and more importantly, are citizens, so 1) is met.

 

Levying war probably correlates to "act of war."  18 USC Ch. 115 doesn't actually have definitions set out, but 18 USC Ch. 113B does have a definition section and defines "act of war":

 

(4)the term “act of war” means any act occurring in the course of—

(A)

declared war;

(

armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations; or

©

armed conflict between military forces of any origin;

 

B and C both could fit, potentially.  Both the US and these individuals are armed.  Further, taking control of the federal building was an act of force against the government.  Sure, no one resisted them, but by breaking, entering, and occupying the facility they committed an action against the laws of the United States.  A cold conflict, but a conflict nonetheless, and again, both sides are armed.

 

They could be considered military forces.  This group has worked with militia groups and could be described as one.  They were marching with the Idaho Three Percenters militia.  Groups like the Oath Keepers, White Mountain Militia, and Praetorian Guard are considered domestic terror threats by the FBI, and they supported Cliven at his ranch.  Ragtag though they may be, they are arguably military forces.

 

The "two or more nations" section is interesting as well.  Consider that the Bundys do not consider themselves under federal jurisdiction, due to being citizens of the "sovereign state of Nevada."  Is it two nations if one of them is not actually real but the people legitimately think it's real?  It's an interesting question, and I'm honestly not sure, but it's worthy of consideration.  Then there's the fact that they planned to stay for years (their crappy logistics and supply lines notwithstanding) and have sought to hand federal lands over to state and local governments, but also individuals, specifically ranchers, for ownership.  Now, a transfer of ownership might not be considered the creation of a separate state, but they seem to wish to make these lands exempt from eminent domain, one of the fundamental powers in the US Constitution.  That suggests some sort of separate governing authority.  An alternative state, perhaps?  It's not all that far-fetched.

 

 

Treason would, naturally, have to be proven by the government in court; as well documented as this silliness is, they are innocent until proven guilty, though there's probable cause literally all over the internet.

 

 

Classifying this as domestic terrorism has been previously discussed, so for the sake of brevity on that point I'll simply reiterate my view that an armed takeover of a federal facility for the purpose of changing federal land ownership and releasing convicts satisfies the definition of domestic terrorism.

 

 

But there are further acts which this takeover may fall under:

 

18 USC 2383 - Rebellion or Insurrection - Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

 

Their taking over of a federal facility with firearms certainly sounds like "rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United State or the laws thereof."  They are advocating that people ignore the laws and authority of the federal government and take control of the land and to join them in the occupation of the facility which they took over.

 

 

18 USC 2384 - Seditious Conspiracy - If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

 

Bundy himself discussed how they've planned this for years.  That seems like "conspire to...oppose by force the authority thereof" or "conspire...by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof."

 

 

Heck, even 18 USC 2389 - Recruiting for service against United State - Whoever recruits soldiers or sailors within the United States, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof, to engage in armed hostility against the same; or

Whoever opens within the United States, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof, a recruiting station for the enlistment of such soldiers or sailors to serve in any manner in armed hostility against the United States—Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

 

The refuge could certainly be considered a recruiting station, as they advocate people coming there to join them, and considered they are armed and hostile to the federal government, their takeover of the refuge being a hostile act, they'd probably fall under this too.

 

 

 

I mean, I get that this group is hilarious and is more akin to a comedic parody you'd see in SNL than an actual national military.  I get that no one was in the building and that thus far no shots have been fired.  I get that the Feds are treating this for the most part like a joke, and letting the winter cold do its thing.

 

But even though their actions appear to be pale imitations or parodies of what we likely think treason, domestic terrorism, rebellion, seditious conspiracy, and recruiting for service against the United States would look like, they, at the very least, should be considered as sufficient to arrest them based upon probable cause for these crimes, scary words and all.  Arrest them, charge them, try them, and if a jury finds them guilty or not guilty of the above, that's fine either way.  But letting them off easy is what happened at the Bundy ranch in 2014, and it led to this in 2015.  Hit them with everything, let a jury sort it out.