Assorted Militia/SovCit news,(formerly Bundy thread)

[Destino]

"Send supplies or snacks"

Lol. Juice boxes and ritz bitz for them all!

 

You're too kind.  One of them said they "need real men here.  Americans who have the intestinal fortitude.."  Let's put that fortitude to the test.  Send nothing in but very fatty spicy food, milk, and liquor.  These are mostly middle aged men too right?  Lots of chocolate too, the more sugar the better. 

 

Make sure to pull law enforcement personnel back another 50 yards or so after a week of that. 

[zoony]

You're too kind. One of them said they "need real men here. Americans who have the intestinal fortitude.." Let's put that fortitude to the test. Send nothing in but very fatty spicy food, milk, and liquor. These are mostly middle aged men too right? Lots of chocolate too, the more sugar the better.

Make sure to pull law enforcement personnel back another 50 yards or so after a week of that.

Chocolate covered bacon, cheesecake, and salami.

And eggnog to wash it down

Of course, water and sewage to the facility will have been cut off

[@DCGoldPants]

Can we send then snacks that also sterilize them from reproduction?

[DogofWar1]

Snacks, they say...

 

[tshile]

I honestly want to understand why these people think the way they do (full of contradictions and fantasies). Low IQ? Mental illness? Brain washing? Mommy didn't love them? There's got to be a common thread.

 

Education system that removed critical thinking from its list of important items to teach a long, long time ago.

[Larry]

Education system that removed critical thinking from its list of important items to teach a long, long time ago.

 

I think I might be more specific than that.  I'd go with a deliberate effort, going back at least 30 years that I've seen it, to convince people that you can tell whether a statement is true or not, based on whether it fits with your opinions. 

 

I think Colbert coined a name for it:  "Truthiness" 

[The Sisko]

I honestly want to understand why these people think the way they do (full of contradictions and fantasies). Low IQ? Mental illness? Brain washing? Mommy didn't love them?

Yes.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

I think I might be more specific than that. I'd go with a deliberate effort, going back at least 30 years that I've seen it, to convince people that you can tell whether a statement is true or not, based on whether it fits with your opinions.

I think Colbert coined a name for it: "Truthiness"

That's a good breakdown. Maybe I'm off but it seems like it's getting harder and harder to have rational, respectful conversations with people. 100 times moreso when it's on the Internet.

It frustrates me to no end that I KNOW something, firsthand in some instances, I tell people this and just because it conflicts with their preconceived notions, they argue with me that I'm wrong.

"No buddy. I was there. That's not what happened."

"You don't know ****. EVERYONE knows...*insert some dumb conspiracy nonsense he saw on Facebook/reddit/freerepublic/etc*"

*headEXPLODES*

It feels like I'm trying to educate someone with a fact and they're plugging up their ears with their fingers and spitting in my face at the same time. They're worse than children. At least kids know they don't know ****.

I'm done with it. As soon as I tell someone something and they start trying to argue with me, I'm dropping out. It's not worth it. It's not worth the brainache.

Information Age and Misinformation Age at the same time. It's probably a minor miracle there isn't more violence between the two camps.

Edited January 5, 2016 by BornaSkinsFan83

[tshile]

It feels like I'm trying to educate someone with a fact and they're plugging up their ears with their fingers and spitting in my face at the same time. They're worse than children.

 

That's because they are. The only thing left is to just make fun of them.

 

Welcome to the internet aage. Every idiot can find bull**** to justify their opinions, walking away when convenient and coming back when convenient as well.

 

You'll find interesting people and have interesting conversations but the more popular the topic the harder that is to find.

 

Once in a while you might even find a person willing to admit they were wrong about something. Take note, because it might be the last time you witness such an event.

Edited January 5, 2016 by tshile

[tshile]

oh my god foxnews is putting bundy on TV for an interview

 

this is embarassing

[Larry]

I remember Jon Stewart's reaction when Papa Bundy announced that he does not recognize the US federal government, while sitting on a horse, carrying a US flag.

[visionary]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-militia-oregon-20160103-story.html

As Oregon occupation grows, rancher and his son quietly surrender

 

As activists continued an armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge, the Oregon rancher and his son who helped inspire the protest quietly surrendered to prison authorities Monday in Southern California.

 

Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven Hammond, 46, were ordered back to prison when a judge decided they had not spent enough time behind bars for setting a pair of fires they said was intended to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires.

 

Karyn Gallen, niece of Dwight Hammond, was on hand when her relatives surrendered.

 

Gallen said the two had flown down from Oregon and spent time with relatives in Southern California before turning themselves in at the Terminal Island federal correctional facility in San Pedro.

But what they are looking for is still unclear.

 

At a Monday news conference, Harney County Sheriff David M. Ward pleaded with the activists to leave the area. He leaned into a bank of microphones and said he was addressing the activists themselves.

 

"The Hammonds have turned themselves in,” Ward said. “It’s time to go home, return to your families."

 

Ammon Bundy, another leader in the armed occupation, said the group is now seeking to “unwind” federal ownership of lands in Harney County.

What were less clear were their immediate goals.

 

Bundy agreed with a reporter who asked whether the group had sent the message it desired by occupying the facility, but was cagey about the activists’ plans. Bundy mentioned “teams” of activists “working the land,” but did not clarify what he meant, or whether there would be occupations of more land.

 

“We have teams that are going to be doing that,” Bundy said.

Edited January 5, 2016 by visionary

[Koolblue13]

[tshile]

Harpers - The Republican Land Heist

n 1885, William A. J. Sparks, the commissioner of the General Land Office, reported to Congress that “unscrupulous speculation” had resulted in “the worst forms of land monopoly . . . throughout regions dominated by cattle-raising interests.” West of the hundredth meridian, cattle barons had enclosed the best forage along with scarce supplies of water in an arid landscape. They falsified titles using the signatures of cowhands and family members, employed fictitious identities to stake claims, and faked improvements on the land to appear to comply with the law. “Probably most private range land in the western states,” a historian of the industry concluded, “was originally obtained by various degrees of fraud.”

The cattle barons were not cowboys, though they came to veil themselves in the cowboy mythos. They were bankers and lawyers, or mining and timber and railroad tycoons. They dominated territorial legislatures, made governors, kept judges, juries, and lawmen in their pockets. They hired gunmen to terrorize those who dared to encroach on their interests. They drove off small, cash-poor family ranchers by stampeding or rustling their herds, bankrupting them with spurious lawsuits, diverting water courses and springs, fencing off land to monopolize the grass, and, finally, when all else failed, by denouncing the subsistence ranchers as rustlers who should be lynched. By the late nineteenth century, the barons had privatized the most productive grasslands and the riparian corridors, where the soil was especially rich. What remained was the less valuable dry-land forage of the public domain, which by 1918 totaled some 200 million acres spread across the eleven states of the West, and which the barons also dominated by stocking them with huge numbers of cows.

Overgrazed and underregulated, the public rangelands descended into a spiral of degradation, the grass in ruin, the topsoil eroded by rain or lifted off by the wind. Only in the 1920s did Congress take serious notice. Ferdinand Silcox, the chief forester of the U.S. Forest Service, testified in 1934 that unregulated grazing was “a cancer-like growth.” Its necessary end, Silcox said, was “a great interior desert,” a vast dust bowl.

lol

[tshile]

 

excellent choice of camo. no one will ever find you when **** goes down.

[The 12th Commandment]

Harpers - The Republican Land Heist

lol

Here in Southern New Mexico there is much of that rangeland that still hasn't recovered.  It never will.  Chihuahua Desert grassland turned to mesquite coppice dune desert.  

 

I talk with ranchers today, and I do fairly often, and they're all about being the stewards of the land.  And they mostly are, but they don't consider that only came about because of regulations.  

 

My geography of the west proff in college described their (public land ranchers) attitude towards the government very succinctly, give me my check and leave me alone.

Edited January 5, 2016 by KAOSkins

[Larry]

[Major Harris]

I keep remembering a post I made, decades ago, here,

Larry mcfly?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Major Harris

[Major Harris]

Jesus loved him some violence too

He did?

[GoSkins0721]

This thread keeps delivering! I've spit out my coffee about 4 times so far this morning. Some classic ES posts in here! 

[Larry]

Larry mcfly?

If you really want to try to push that button, I'm pretty sure that it was during the Clinton administration. (If not sooner).

[Major Harris]

If you really want to try to push that button, I'm pretty sure that it was during the Clinton administration. (If not sooner).

 

 

what year was es born?  i thought it was 2000ish.  i'm pretty sure it wasn't 1996 which is the absolute minimum threshold to allow the use of the word "decades."

[@DCGoldPants]

The Armed Oregon Ranchers Who Want Free Land Are Already Getting A 93 Percent Discount

 

 

OREGON STANDOFF 3:44 PM JAN 4, 2016

 

The Armed Oregon Ranchers Who Want Free Land Are Already Getting A 93 Percent Discount

By LEAH LIBRESCO

 

The takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon appears to be more than just a protest of the impending imprisonment of two ranchers who set fires that spread into public lands. The armed demonstrators are led by Ammon Bundy, whose father, Cliven, has refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the federal Bureau of Land Management to own some public lands or to regulate their use for grazing. But the government is giving the Bundy family a pretty good deal on the grazing rights it refuses to pay for.

 

In 1993, the bureau declined to renew Cliven Bundy’s grazing permits in parts of Nevada that were reserved for a threatened desert tortoise. But Bundy continued grazing his cattle there anyway and refused to pay any fines or fees. He claimed that the land really belonged to him, so why should he have to pay over $1 million in fines?

 

Now his son has furthered the fight by seizing the Oregon refuge. In a news conference Sunday, Ammon Bundy explained that he was there in protest of the “unconstitutional transactions of land rights and water rights.”

 

Those transactions, though, can be a pretty good deal, regardless of their constitutionality. According to a 2015 report by the Center for Biological Diversity, the Bureau of Land Management’s fees for grazing cattle on public land are much lower than the fees charged by private landowners, and they’ve only become cheaper in recent years.

 

 

 

 

More from link.

Edited January 5, 2016 by @SkinsGoldPants

[The 12th Commandment]

One of the reasons the price is so low, besides a really good lobby, is that there is some inherent risk involved.  That risk revolves around the weather and by association the quality of the rangeland.  When it doesn't rain, as it hasn't been in the west up until this El Nino we're seeing, the number of cows they can graze on their allotments goes down accordingly.  Goes to figure of course, less grass can provide food for less cows.  I saw the ranchers revolt against "tyrannical" federal management back in the nineties when we last had a drought (also cured by El Nino).  

[Larry]

what year was es born? i thought it was 2000ish. i'm pretty sure it wasn't 1996 which is the absolute minimum threshold to allow the use of the word "decades."

Well, I guess you've got me.

Clearly I should have said "an unknown number of years which I believe to be in the neighborhood of 20 years, but may not have been more than 20 years".