Major Harris Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Well, I guess you've got me. Clearly I should have said "an unknown number of years which I believe to be in the neighborhood of 20 years, but may not have been more than 20 years". Or you could just take a joke, mcfly Edited January 5, 2016 by Major Harris 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 <edit duplicate article> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Look, I'll be the first to admit that I don't read these things and "keep a level head." These people are idiots at best and should be treated as such.  My personal, "I should never be president or involved in a major negotiation" opinion? Besides the part about fencing them in and cutting off their food and water? Take their ranches. You want to seize Federal Property? I'm sorry, you have no ranch/home to go back to now. Sorry about your wife and kids who just got thrown out on their asses. Give their land to folks who are down on their luck and need a fresh start and won't **** about the handouts they're being given.  Of course, with the elder Bundy, my initial inclination, as soon as he and his friends started parading around with guns and threatening federal officials, was to call in the choppers and see who still had balls. In hindsight, I'd prefer not to take human life, even those who shouldn't steal oxygen from the rest of us. The issue was that he was illegally grazing his cattle and not paying fees, correct? And he's refusing to pay up? Fine, slaughter the cows. Send the meat to homeless shelters. Good luck with your ranch life, having no herd, jackass.  Like I said, I admit up front I shouldn't be in charge of these sorts of calls, I have zero tolerance for people like this. I at least understand the anger behind the BLM movement, there's clear issues of mistreatment there that need to be addressed. These VanillaISIS (that's my favorite) folks have nothing legitimate to **** about. Starve them out, freeze their bank accounts, give their ranches to someone else who will obey the law, I say. Edited January 5, 2016 by Forehead 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 How the Leader of the Oregon Armed Protest Benefited From a Federal Loan Program  As one of the leaders of a band of armed, anti-government activists who have taken over a Fish and Wildlife Service building in Oregon, Ammon Bundy has denounced the "tyranny" of the federal government. And he has brought a new round of attention to the anti-government militia movement that in 2014 rallied behind his father, Cliven Bundy, when the elder Bundy and armed supporters confronted federal agents in Nevada. But not long ago, Ammon Bundy sought out help from the government he now decries and received a federal small-business loan guarantee.  Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona. On April 15, 2010—Tax Day, as it happens—Bundy's business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid. The SBA website notes that this loan guarantee was issued under a program "to aid small businesses which are unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace." The government estimated that this subsidy could cost taxpayers $22,419. Bundy did not respond to an email request for comment about the SBA loan.  On Monday, ABC News reported that Bundy and the "militia members occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge set up a roadblock, and two armed members manned a guard tower that is usually used to spot wildfires." Bundy has vowed to occupy the site in Burns, Oregon, for years. He participated in that tense 2014 standoff near his father's ranch; at one point he was tased by federal law enforcement agents for kicking a police dog.  It's not clear what Bundy and his fellow anti-government protesters, who include his brother Ryan, are trying to achieve through their standoff at the wildlife refuge. In an interview posted on his family's Facebook page, Bundy said the group would leave when the federal government allows local ranchers to use their land the way they want to. But he didn't specify what that means.    more from the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 He participated in that tense 2014 standoff near his father's ranch; at one point he was tased by federal law enforcement agents for kicking a police dog. Â Holy crap, he IS a cartoon villain. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Look, I'll be the first to admit that I don't read these things and "keep a level head." These people are idiots at best and should be treated as such. My personal, "I should never be president or involved in a major negotiation" opinion? Besides the part about fencing them in and cutting off their food and water? Take their ranches. You want to seize Federal Property? I'm sorry, you have no ranch/home to go back to now. Sorry about your wife and kids who just got thrown out on their asses. Give their land to folks who are down on their luck and need a fresh start and won't **** about the handouts they're being given. Of course, with the elder Bundy, my initial inclination, as soon as he and his friends started parading around with guns and threatening federal officials, was to call in the choppers and see who still had balls. In hindsight, I'd prefer not to take human life, even those who shouldn't steal oxygen from the rest of us. The issue was that he was illegally grazing his cattle and not paying fees, correct? And he's refusing to pay up? Fine, slaughter the cows. Send the meat to homeless shelters. Good luck with your ranch life, having no herd, jackass. Like I said, I admit up front I shouldn't be in charge of these sorts of calls, I have zero tolerance for people like this. I at least understand the anger behind the BLM movement, there's clear issues of mistreatment there that need to be addressed. These VanillaISIS (that's my favorite) folks have nothing legitimate to **** about. Starve them out, freeze their bank accounts, give their ranches to someone else who will obey the law, I say. The federal government under Obama has been absolutely spineless in these situations. Obama is so deathly afraid of the Waco/Ruby Ridge type of pressTruthfully, the only problem with Waco and ruby ridge is that it doesn't happen more often. These idiots and outlaws think they can do whatever they want under the guise of freedom and the constitution (their ignorant trailer trash interpretation of it at least) and bladdy blah blah. Time to stop letting them get away with it You want to threaten federal officials with guns? You are getting killed. Period. Who is next up? Come getcha some you fat, stupid, dumbass redneck. Come get it I cannot watch video of that Cliven Bundy standoff without my blood boiling. Unbelievable those ass clowns are still breathing our oxygen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 A crackdown is necessary. Â I'd prefer them to just sit in prison for life on treason and domestic terrorism convictions over killing them, but indeed, the Bundys need to be made an example of. Â It was one thing when it was their property and ranch, and the like, but now they're in a completely different state, taking over federal installations. Â They are literally a roving rogue state, attempting to undermine the United States of America. Â They are no different than any other group that would attempt to establish their own state within the United States by force of arms, and should be put down as an armed rebellion. Â Letting bygones be bygones is only going to embolden them. Â Life sentences for each and every one of them. Â Maybe even throw the Bundys in Guantanamo, just for the fun of it. Â And if they're stupid enough to shoot first, well, our armed forces know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this.  Take more heat for what?  That loons have guns in the USA?  That they weren't arrested, before they did this?  That he hasn't given them what they demand?  That he hasn't sent in the military and blown the place up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this. He's off limits for dems and the gun toting conservatives love that this is happening 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this. Â Â They're out in the middle of nowhere, and their grand act of patriotic bravery is affecting approximately nobody. Â If they'd only chosen to shut down the 14th St. bridge, we would already be siphoning their remains into the Potomac. Edited January 5, 2016 by Barney B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think he's treating them, as a group that doesn't like his authority, the way he would like other authorities (local PDs) to treat groups that don't like them. Â In english, it's a good example for white cops who patrol black areas. The president should be a good example and I'm proud of him for it. Â Sorry for being moderate, I know it's not as fun. Â All the tough talk is cool, we need an intangible outlet for those inclinations, but bombing them or other overt displays of power are counterproductive so long as they're not a threat to anyone. Â Follow up with the law. Â Bundy pisses me off because they still haven't done anything to the fool. Â I hope that's not the case this time. Â 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Im not advocating sending in troops. But his Justice Dept seems to be pretty feckless with these morons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this. Â with absolutely no backing what-so-ever for this guess.,, i think it may have something to do with not giving the extremists any reason to escalate. Considering all the mayhem caused by a dishonest and manipulative media already,, they may keep it low key so as to keep things controllable. Â ~Bang Edited January 5, 2016 by Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Where is Janet Reno 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 So we just let these clowns take Govt property? Â What happens when the next "sovereign citizen" decides laws don't apply? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Im curious why Obama doesnt take more heat for this.  If he sends in armed Feds to take out these people in a violent fight, it will probably light the spark to a massive powder keg and result in widespread domestic terrorism throughout the country.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/05/southern-poverty-law-center-militias-gun-control/1964411/  Radical anti-government "patriot" groups and militias, galvanized against gun control, will continue to grow even as the number of groups operating in the USAreached an all-time high in 2012, a report Tuesday by the Southern Poverty Law Center finds. The center tracked 1,360 radical militias and anti-government groups in 2012, an eightfold increase over 2008, when it recorded 149 such groups. The explosive growth began four years ago, sparked by the election of President Obama and anger about the poor economy, the center says. That growth is likely to continue as the groups recruit more members with a pro-gun message, the center's senior fellow Mark Potok said. President Obama's second term and a gun control movement bolstered by the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School is intensifying anti-government rage and will lead to more growth for the groups, Potok said.   There are enough of these nutjob groups to cause severe domestic unrest. I don't know if it's really in the best interest of the country to engage these people in a fight they are begging for.  Yeehadists is an appropriate term for them. They are itching to pick a fight and cause unrest. Edited January 5, 2016 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If these guys were treated like American Muslims would be, there would be a white uprising. Â OLS, yeah, that sounds pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 It sounds like when they didn't disperse peacefully over the weekend a plan of action was put in place, which will start with cutting the power.  http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/05/oregon-wildlife-militia-standoff-power-cut-off  Took too long, in my opinion, kids gloves for these guys is not what I'd like to see, but over the next few days if they truly don't have power or phones, then things should start moving pretty quickly after a night or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 So we just let these clowns take Govt property?  What happens when the next "sovereign citizen" decides laws don't apply? I love the way they're doing it.  This isn't a government office that sees any traffic in the off season so it's not like any business is being stymied.  Right now the smartest thing to do is to cut the power and communications, stop anyone coming in to resupply them and wait a while.  I just hope they don't have to have 400 highly paid feds sitting around the whole time as a just in case.   The next idiot will undoubtedly present a different situation and hopefully they come up with the smart thing to do for that one also.  These idiots crave pics of them being led off in cuffs by jackbooted government thugs.  Don't give them that.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Where is Janet Reno   Living in my fantasies, clad only in her gold-lame thong-edition Depends and the pea****-feather boa, strategically draped.  3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If these guys were treated like American Muslims would be, there would be a white uprising.  ya know, i read something similar on facebook earlier today.  paraphrasing here: "If a group of Muslim men, armed with assault rifles, took over a federal government building, claiming they're within the rights of the constitution to do so..........how would the situation be playing out?  Or maybe Muslim is a bit too extreme.  What if they were just a bunch of black guys with M-16s?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 My take on "what if they were black" is that the goal is equal application of less violent responses in reaction to unrest, not simply equal violence. I don't want a government that seeks to make the point that anyone that steps out of line is going to get bloody. I see that as tone deaf response. Let the consequences be decided by juries and judges after peaceful resolutions when ever possible. That's not as cool as gun blazing but frankly violence is **** and we need to stop celebrating it at all levels of our society. We're too in love with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 These idiots crave pics of them being led off in cuffs by jackbooted government thugs.  Don't give them that.   You know what would be better? Once they've been without power, phones, or supplies and want to give up, don't let them. Make them stay in there awhile longer to think about it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 You know what would be better? Once they've been without power, phones, or supplies and want to give up, don't let them. Make them stay in there awhile longer to think about it. I agree, a tactic that's commonly referred to in the west as lettin em fester 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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