Assorted Militia/SovCit news,(formerly Bundy thread)

[tshile]

maybe someone could convince amazon to do it with one of their delivery drones

 

camera on the drone would make it even better

[PleaseBlitz]

Well, it appears that they're already out of food. (Which certainly seems incredible, to me).

 

 

Particularly when nobody is stopping people FROM BRINGING THEM MORE FOOD.

[@DCGoldPants]

Sounds like they didn't plan this very well. Guessing that as badass as they act. None of the are exactly Les Stroud in the survival dept.

 

I think a lot of people get it. The Feds own a lot of land as you go out west. Maybe too much land. But where are the state's rights Senators and Congresspeople representing these folks who want to get at least a % of the land turned over to the state? Or sold to the private population? Who gets to decide who get to buy it?

[zoony]

Somebody totally needs to pull the flaming bag of poopy stunt

[tshile]

or those little stink bombs people use to slam on the floor during assembly's in school.

 

this could really become a giant source of entertainment. the problem is the rest of us have lives and real responsibilities.

[PCS]

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/burns-malheur-greg-walden-oregon-representative-occupiers/

 

 

 

 

Walden: Occupiers Have Gone Too Far, But 'Hears Their Anger'

Congressman Greg Walden (R-Ore.) took to the House floor Tuesday and delivered an impassioned speech about the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

The refuge is within his district in Eastern Oregon. He expressed broader frustrations about how federal lands are managed in the American West.

Walden said that while he does not condone the takeover, he shares the occupiers’ frustrations. 

He called on Congress to “understand what drives people to do what’s happening tonight in Harney County.”

Walden spoke about the frustrations of ranchers and rural citizens in Oregon, pointing to what he sees as mismanagement of the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.

“I have seen what happens when overzealous bureaucrats and agencies go beyond the law and clamp down on people,” said Walden.

Walden said he thinks the armed protesters at the refuge have gone too far.

 

*Click Link for more* 

[TheGoodBits]

Somebody totally needs to pull the flaming bag of poopy stunt

I absolutely thought of that when I saw their plea for supplies. I've got a ton of dog **** in my backyard.

[tshile]

if they just blared the national anthem at them nonstop, how long before these patriots would grow tired of it?

[tshile]

they've started this hash tag:

#bundyeroticfanfic

depending on where you work this may be considered inappropriate, but for those of you who work in cool places:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/bundyeroticfanfic?src=hash

[Koolblue13]

Particularly when nobody is stopping people FROM BRINGING THEM MORE FOOD.

PETA got in. You KNOW they weren't sneaking in there. Probably yelling "the Vegans are here, the Vegans are here" dressed like slaughtered cows and handling out flyers. Bullhorns everywhere. Doing weird **** only white people do. This entire thing is just embarrassing.

I can't see the Feds wanting that Waco visual of fire and gunplay and actually raiding this place.

They went in there armed, do you think they're just gonna come out, relinquish their guns,.and be arrested peacefully?

absolutely. That is exactly what will happen. Then they'll yell about unfair treatment from the oppression, while sitting in jail, finally enjoying their snacks.

[PCS]

 

 

------------------------------

 

Did a hashtag search of #bundymilitia and apparently Sheriff Ward of Burns has received several death threats since the militia took over the preserve buildings. His wife has left town after she was followed and had a tire on her car slit. His elderly parents have even been harassed according to him.  He's getting a bit frustrated with the situation now. Go figure. 

[mcsluggo]

I can't see the Feds wanting that Waco visual of fire and gunplay and actually raiding this place.

They went in there armed, do you think they're just gonna come out, relinquish their guns,.and be arrested peacefully?

 

if THEY start shooting, then its an entirely different kettle of fish... and the Feds should be prepared for that possibility, and should respond appropriately if it happens.  

 

but yeah, i think that if they are cut off from food, water, electricity, heat, and internet porn .... they will noisily and whinging come out and get arrested.

[Predicto]

Oregon protest leader: 'There is a time to go home'

 

 

 

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every purpose under heaven

 

A time to hoard guns, a time to issue demands

A time to hide in tarps, a time to eat snacks

A time to make threats, a time to make tweets

A time to be interviewed on Fox and Friends

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every purpose under heaven

 

A time to be feared, a time to be mocked

A time to wish you had brought toilet paper

A time to apologize to your wife

A time to sign a book deal with Regnery Press

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every folly under heaven

 

 

------------------------------

 

Did a hashtag search of #bundymilitia and apparently Sheriff Ward of Burns has received several death threats since the militia took over the preserve buildings. His wife has left town after she was followed and had a tire on her car slit. His elderly parents have even been harassed according to him.  He's getting a bit frustrated with the situation now. Go figure. 

 

Well, that's because the Sheriff is a *bong*

[PleaseBlitz]

they've started this hash tag:

#bundyeroticfanfic

depending on where you work this may be considered inappropriate, but for those of you who work in cool places:

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/bundyeroticfanfic?src=hash

 

 

This made my day.  I am going to post a few that are SFW.

 

Ammon slid his hand inside LaVoy's flannel shirt. 'You set fire to the open range land of my soul,' he whispered." #bundyeroticfanfic

 

"Did you bring condoms?" Jed whispered. "Not to worry, we're protected by the 1st and 2nd Amendment" Ammon replied. #bundyeroticfanfic

[mcsluggo]

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every purpose under heaven

 

A time to hoard guns, a time to issue demands

A time to hide in tarps, a time to eat snacks

A time to make threats, a time to make tweets

A time to be interviewed on Fox and Friends

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every purpose under heaven

 

A time to be feared, a time to be mocked

A time to wish you had brought toilet paper

A time to apologize to your wife

A time to sign a book deal with Regnery Press

 

To everything - turn, turn, turn

There is a season - turn, turn, turn

And a time to every folly under heaven

 

 

 

ahhh the hippy bastage protest songs... i can only assume that these dudes are all sitting naked in circle braiding daisies into each other's beards.

[DogofWar1]

Been away all morning, so lots to sift through, haha.

4) And they have a difference of opinion (therefore a "conflict") with representatives of the US Government.
5) Therefore, the unopposed occupation of an abandoned piece of property in the middle of nowhere is treason?

And this is with a straight face?  It's not sarcasm? 

 

I think we place very different levels of importance on the armed occupation of a federal building.  I understand completely that it's empty and not in use at the moment, but it's still a federal building, and they're still armed and have threatened violence if the government tries to do what it is entirely within its rights to do, that is, re-occupy the building and arrest them for their crimes, even if that crime was something small like trespassing.

 

When they merely had a disagreement, and were protesting, that was fine.  That's perfectly within their rights.  But then they took the building.  That's the conflict, not the disagreement.

 

 

I don't think this is even debatable.

 

B can't fit, these dip****s arent a "nation."  Subsection B, in its entirety states:  "armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared, between two or more nations."

 

So you are left with subsection C, and I think you are going to have to go to case law to determine what "armed conflict" means.  I doubt that showing up somewhere with guns counts as "armed conflict BETWEEN military forces" when 1)  law enforcement may be in the area, but as far as I can tell, no US military and 2) they are literally being allowed by law enforcement to come and go as they please.

 

Both the use of the word "between" and the plural "forces" means that there must be at least 2 military forces.  Even if you consider 10 dudes with hunting rifles and a box of beef jerky a military force (which is silly), thats only 1.  

 

I think the "nation" section might be a stretch, but it still has some footing.

 

Consider that in 2006, Adam Gadahn was indicted on treason charges for helping Al-Qaeda.  Al-Qaeda was not a "nation" in the traditional sense either.  Al-Qaeda was certainly more organized and vocally anti-American, and of course had already committed atrocities against the US, but the key is that "nation" is not perfectly defined.

 

Now, does a bunch of sovereign citizens thinking they're a militia count as a "nation?"  Maybe, maybe not.  Probably not.

 

But it's a classic prosecutor tool to charge them with the worst and plea deal down to some lesser stuff.  I think there's enough to get the charge through the door.  Public reaction, however, is a different story and might prevent such a charge from being levied against them.  But that's more of a backroom calculation than what "can" happen.

 

As for the "forces" part, it's tough to know at this time what the full federal response is.  Information is scarce.  We know they don't have a bunch of feds right there with a hard perimeter, which is understandable with the lengths they're going to prevent another Waco, but whether they have a force in the area just down the road or not, we don't know.  Probably won't know until they try to leave.  If 200 armed troops hop out from behind bushes a thousand yards down the road, that'd probably constitute a military force.  But we'll see.

 

Again, classic prosecutor tool to hit with the worst then negotiate to a position less bad but still favorable to the prosecutor.  If you can get an indictment for treason, and don't think it won't set of actual violent reactions nationwide, I say go for it.

 

 

how about when dirty hippie (wannabies) take over the dean's office at Colombia or UC-Berkley....  

...

... turn 'em into glass?

...

i'm all for ridiculing them, cutting 'em off and not allowing visitors or supplies, and then arresting them when they come out.   there is no need for the side of justice and law to needlessly accelerate the situation.

 

Oh, I'm not advocating for shooting first or drone strikes or anything like that.  When I said "hit them with everything," I meant legally, after they've been arrested.

 

My ideal resolution to this would be them to get arrested peacefully (somehow, we'll see if that can happen), charged with a boatload of things, put in front of a jury, and the justice system allowed to run its course.  It would demonstrate that the government will not allow themselves to be taken lightly, but that we're still a nation of laws and that they will be afforded the full protections those laws afford, as well as receive consequences for violations where they've committed them, after being convicted by a jury of their peers, of course.

 

The feds should avoid doing anything more than basic indirect disruptive tactics at this time.  Cutting power and phones is good.  Ideally they'd block the roads but they seemingly haven't done that.  I certainly would avoid sending armed individuals in there right now.  If they had indeed been set up for months, getting in there and dislodging them might have made more sense, but these guys seem to have screwed up pretty badly so more than likely they'll slink away on their own in the next week.  I would advocate, at that time, apprehending them, and doing so peacefully if possible.

 

Frankly, it's a luxury so many are NOT afforded in their interactions with law enforcement, and so it's frustrating to me to say, but I feel as though allowing them to shoot first is the best option.

 

As for the comparison to armed college takeovers, hundreds of individuals were arrested during those protests, and quite a bit of force was used to dislodge them.  That level of force likely is not necessary here, and arguably we would not want to use such tactics again, but it would not be inconsistent with previous events.  Armed takeovers, even for the best causes, must be taken very seriously.  In the aftermath the social justice aspect can be examined more closely and weighed, but prior to that, any occasion where firearms are present should be taken seriously from a law enforcement standpoint.  That doesn't mean shoot-em-up, demonstrate judicious use of the use of force continuum, but enforce the law.

[PleaseBlitz]

 

I think the "nation" section might be a stretch, but it still has some footing.

 

Consider that in 2006, Adam Gadahn was indicted on treason charges for helping Al-Qaeda.  Al-Qaeda was not a "nation" in the traditional sense either.  Al-Qaeda was certainly more organized and vocally anti-American, and of course had already committed atrocities against the US, but the key is that "nation" is not perfectly defined.

 

Now, does a bunch of sovereign citizens thinking they're a militia count as a "nation?"  Maybe, maybe not.  Probably not.

 

But it's a classic prosecutor tool to charge them with the worst and plea deal down to some lesser stuff.  I think there's enough to get the charge through the door.  Public reaction, however, is a different story and might prevent such a charge from being levied against them.  But that's more of a backroom calculation than what "can" happen.

 

As for the "forces" part, it's tough to know at this time what the full federal response is.  Information is scarce.  We know they don't have a bunch of feds right there with a hard perimeter, which is understandable with the lengths they're going to prevent another Waco, but whether they have a force in the area just down the road or not, we don't know.  Probably won't know until they try to leave.  If 200 armed troops hop out from behind bushes a thousand yards down the road, that'd probably constitute a military force.  But we'll see.

 

Again, classic prosecutor tool to hit with the worst then negotiate to a position less bad but still favorable to the prosecutor.  If you can get an indictment for treason, and don't think it won't set of actual violent reactions nationwide, I say go for it.

 

 

 

 

Well, if you are arguing what they can be CHARGED with, then the answer is anything.  If i were the prosecutor, I would charge them all with forcible sodomy, because why not?

 

I thought you were talking about what they could actually be CONVICTED OF, which is probably a lot of things, but treason is not one of them.  

 

And while information is somewhat scarce, there is ZERO indication that there is a military force in the area.  FBI probably, but they seem to be leaving it to the locals for the most part, and again, federal law enforcement is not the military.  I think you are really grasping at straws here (which is totally fine, i enjoy the conversation. ).

[Destino]

maybe someone could convince amazon to do it with one of their delivery drones

camera on the drone would make it even better

Rig the box so it sprays red white and blue glitter everywhere when opened. While the delivery drone flies around in circles blaring Team America: World Police theme music.

[Koolblue13]

If these clowns fire one round, they should all be dropped by snippers in a half second.

[PCS]

Well it appears Jerry DeLemus has arrived to assist the "Bundy Militia."

 

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/trump-campaign-official-arrives-at-oregon-standoff-to-help-militants-combat-psyops/

[FanboyOf91]

We just need the Trump 2016 sign for the full effect.

[China]

If these clowns fire one round, they should all be dropped by snippers in a half second.

 

So you're saying we should send in Edward Scissorhands?

 

 

To castrate them maybe?

Edited January 7, 2016 by China

[DogofWar1]

Great, now we all know how this will go.

1. Someone there says something super racist with Trump guy around or involved.

2. Someone asks Trump about it.

3. Trump maybe sorta voices minor discomfort but also maybe not.

4. Trump goes up in the polls.

 

 

Well, if you are arguing what they can be CHARGED with, then the answer is anything.  If i were the prosecutor, I would charge them all with forcible sodomy, because why not?

 

I thought you were talking about what they could actually be CONVICTED OF, which is probably a lot of things, but treason is not one of them.  

 

And while information is somewhat scarce, there is ZERO indication that there is a military force in the area.  FBI probably, but they seem to be leaving it to the locals for the most part, and again, federal law enforcement is not the military.  I think you are really grasping at straws here (which is totally fine, i enjoy the conversation. ).

 

I'm primarily talking about charging, since that's the next step and a jury will handle the conviction phase.  I'd avoid charging them for things like sodomy though, unless interviewing their farm animals turns something up.  Stay tuned on that one.  I still think there's a possibility of something like treason sticking, but I'll grant that among the myriad of potential charges it is probably the least likely to stick.  I think having it charged sends an important message though.  Sodomy, while a hilarious charge, probably doesn't.

 

It's an interesting question as to whether armed FBI agents count as military for such a charge.  I feel like it's one of those things that frankly could go either way in a Circuit Court.  I've recently been reading up on the Rajaratnam case where the Circuit Court, and to a lesser extent the trial court, basically handwaved a lot of the legal questions in favor of the government.  I could see a judge finding something like "the charges were sufficient to warrant a response by the United States military, above and beyond normal law enforcement matters.  The FBI, while not necessarily considered a traditional wing of the military, was clearly chosen to stand in for the US military in this instance.  Where armed agents of the federal government are stationed at a scene and traditional military forces would have been warranted due to the severity of the circumstances, such federal agents may be considered military for the purposes of armed conflict."

 

I could also see them saying "nope, nice try though."

 

There's part of me that thinks the argument could fly.  The other part of me still wants to do it even if it won't because there's something fun about breaking ground on new interpretations of law.  It's like painting a unique picture.  But with lots of words and stuffy people in suits.

Edited January 7, 2016 by DogofWar1

[Predicto]

Actually, here is exactly what is going to happen.

 

This clown will talk to the jerks for 5 minutes.

 

The jerks will agree to leave peacefully and immediately

 

Trump will get credit for being the greatest negotiator and leader in the free world.

 

Trump will go up 10 points in the polls.

[PleaseBlitz]

Well, it's an interesting theory of the case, i'll give you that.  I really don't think that arguing "military" and "law enforcement" would fly in any court, even given the fact that today's military has tanks and drones and ****.

 

I for one think that these people should be treated like the bumbling jokers that they are, and their pathetic display should not be dignified with even a felony charge.  I think the proper message would be to charge them with misdemeanor trespassing or some extremely minor gun violation, or something else that is basically a parking ticket.  "Aggravated loitering with intent to annoy" would be a good one, if available.