Redd Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Still too early. Rather see how Cousins finishes the season before giving him a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbothwel Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Still too early. Rather see how Cousins finishes the season before giving him a contract. Hence the Thread Title of hypothetical. As I mentioned earlier, if you project out the next 9 games you get: about 4000 yds, 20 TD's, 18 Ints, 68 Comp %, and 85 QB Rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 While I would be absolutely shocked/thrilled with a Super Bowl this year, I think we can take the Joe Flacco approach here and let the season play itself out. Don't get too high with the highs or too low with the lows. Let the build happen. That was definitely a solid performance. DC, I got mad respect for you bud but did you bother to read at least the bottom of my post? This post had ZERO to do with last game and is something that's been knocking around in my head most of the season. I figured it was a good bye week thread as there would be enough of a season to base my hypothetical off of: i.e., the rest of the season largely mimics the first 7 games. It's not suggesting what we should sign him to NOW. It's a mental exercise asking what people would be willing to go for at the end of the season if the rest of the season is pretty consistent with what we've seen the first half. Still too early. Rather see how Cousins finishes the season before giving him a contract.lSee my post to DC9. If you're going to post, at least read the bottom of my OP that explains the hypothetical. This thread is not about giving him a contract before the season ends. It's asking what you'd iffer in a hypothetical situation where the rest of the season looks similar to the first 7 games n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Nobody's giving him $10+ mil per season unless he has comeback victories every other week for the rest of the year. For some reason, he has cemented a national reputation by the casual NFL fan as a "worst QB ever" type of player. Contrast this with how Ryan Fitzpatrick was perceived when he signed his deal, which was "Oh wow, he actually didn't look ****ty for such a late round draft pick...maybe he's good?" For example, look at any Bucs' newspaper headline and you'll see some variation of, "The Bucs are so bad that Kirk effing Cousins just had the largest comeback victory in Redskins history against them. Kirk. Cousins." Same thing happened against Philly. - Why did the Bucs lose this game? Certainly coaching. Its the only way I can explainKirk Cousins, one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, carving up the Bucs defense for 317 yds and three touchdowns. I'll tell you this much - you can't continue to lose games to inferior competition. The Washington franchise is a horrible football team. Horrible. And you just blew a 24 point lead against Kirk Cousins of all people. Bucs make Kirk Cousins look like a god etc. Other team's bringing Cousins into their organizations and trying to sell that move to their fanbase would be similar to Shanahan bringing John Beck in here in 2011 and saying he has full faith in him - the fans are not going to buy it. Now, IMO Cousins' rep as a punchline is completely undeserved (he's been in the top 10-20 range by footballoutsiders' metrics for the past 2 seasons, which is more or less accurate to my eye), but that's his reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 You're kidding yourself if you don't think he will be coveted. Matt Flynn got 3/26 for showing 1 game. Let's say the rest of the season goes exactly like the first 7 games did. He's led the team back to win 4 games as well as 2 potential comebacks that he himself screwed up with late picks. 4 total bone head games and 4 meh games. As a GM with a team in place but needing a qb you give him a 5/60 with 15 bonus with outs after each year following year 2 (much like tannehill and kap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Who cares what opposing teams media members spew about him? Or national talking heads for that matter. The only opinion that matters is SM, and I'm willing to wait until the end of the season to trust his judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Who cares what opposing teams media members spew about him? Or national talking heads for that matter. The only opinion that matters is SM, and I'm willing to wait until the end of the season to trust his judgement. Well, it does actually matter for this hypothetical. Or at least it could. If you're confident no one is going to give him $12 mil, for instance, then you could feel comfortable going with $12 and believing you'd get him. On the contrary, if you think a host of teams will be clamor info for him, then you may not feel as comfortable only offering $5 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 You're kidding yourself if you don't think he will be coveted. Matt Flynn got 3/26 for showing 1 game. Let's say the rest of the season goes exactly like the first 7 games did. He's led the team back to win 4 games as well as 2 potential comebacks that he himself screwed up with late picks. 4 total bone head games and 4 meh games. As a GM with a team in place but needing a qb you give him a 5/60 with 15 bonus with outs after each year following year 2 (much like tannehill and kap) This team cannot afford to pay an mediocre QB $60 mil. And if the rest of the season goes like the first seven games of the season did with good Kirk/bad kirk and we pay him big money spread over 5 years than nothing has changed. If he plays well than he'll earn the money but an knee-jerk reaction to what happened in the second half of a game against a terrible team is so silly. This exact reason is why it's hard for a guy like me who's on the fence about Kirk to take the Kirk fans seriously. And I don't mean to be disrespectful but at halftime benching him was a real possibility and 2 quarters later paying him 12 per plus 15 bonus is the only way we're going to keep him? I mean come on. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk and I really do want this team to find their signal-caller for the future but paying him large sums of money if he's average because other teams hinder their cap by doing so just isn't an valid excuse in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Well, it does actually matter for this hypothetical. Or at least it could. If you're confident no one is going to give him $12 mil, for instance, then you could feel comfortable going with $12 and believing you'd get him. On the contrary, if you think a host of teams will be clamor info for him, then you may not feel as comfortable only offering $5 mil. My point was despite what the "other" media members might think, their GM's may have differing views on him and his potential. The talking heads opinions hold no water in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbothwel Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Nobody's giving him $10+ mil per season unless he has comeback victories every other week for the rest of the year. For some reason, he has cemented a national reputation by the casual NFL fan as a "worst QB ever" type of player. Contrast this with how Ryan Fitzpatrick was perceived when he signed his deal, which was "Oh wow, he actually didn't look ****ty for such a late round draft pick...maybe he's good?" For example, look at any Bucs' newspaper headline and you'll see some variation of, "The Bucs are so bad that Kirk effing Cousins just had the largest comeback victory in Redskins history against them. Kirk. Cousins." Same thing happened against Philly. Two points I have to disagree with you on: 1) Fitz: When Fitz started in 2011, he had already started in 36 games. That not "out of Nowhere" He started 13 games for the Bengals in 2008 when they had Ocho, TJ, Cedric Benson, and Chris Henry. He led them to a 4-7-1 record while completing less than 60% of his passes, 150 yd/game, throwing more pics than TD's and having a TD rating of 70... He was not good to say the least. In 2011, he was 29 years old with the aforementioned (and unimpressive) 36 starts and proceeded to have a decent year with Chan Gailey as coach. The same Chan Gailey that made Kordell Stewert look good in 97, Jay Fiedler in 2001, and Tyler Thigpen in 2008 2) Media's "Sucky Kirk": Again, we have to assume that this hypothetical contract comes in 2016 FA. So after the next 9 games I expect to see a couple of bad games and picks, but I also expect that he'll light some teams up with Reed, Jackson, Garcon, and Crowder and the media wont be as condescending at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hence the Thread Title of hypothetical. As I mentioned earlier, if you project out the next 9 games you get: about 4000 yds, 20 TD's, 18 Ints, 68 Comp %, and 85 QB Rating. Indeed, and that's pretty close to Andy Dalton 2014 (3398 yards, 64.2% comp., 19 TD, 17 INT), Palmer 2013 (4274 yards, 63.3% comp., 24 TD, 22 INT), and Matt Stafford 2012 (4967 yards, 59.8% comp., 20 TD, 17 INT). Those guys are getting paid big. Of course, stats are only part of the story, where those stats come from matter too. If the context of those stats is decent, he's getting money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Taylor703....check how Miami and San Fran did their contracts. They basically are two year deals with team controlled year to year after that. It's the new model for qbs coming off rookie contracts. I'm not a "kirk" fan or reacting to the second half of the Tampa game only. The fact is he has two game winning 4th quarter end of game drives and a 3rd 4th quarter game tying drive. If not for the bone head pick he is rare territory there. He also has 2 stinkers (jets and giants) and 2 meh games (rams/dolphins). Is the second half plays like the first then he is getting over 10 somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 This team cannot afford to pay an mediocre QB $60 mil. And if the rest of the season goes like the first seven games of the season did with good Kirk/bad kirk and we pay him big money spread over 5 years than nothing has changed. If he plays well than he'll earn the money but an knee-jerk reaction to what happened in the second half of a game against a terrible team is so silly. This exact reason is why it's hard for a guy like me who's on the fence about Kirk to take the Kirk fans seriously. And I don't mean to be disrespectful but at halftime benching him was a real possibility and 2 quarters later paying him 12 per plus 15 bonus is the only way we're going to keep him? I mean come on. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk and I really do want this team to find their signal-caller for the future but paying him large sums of money if he's average because other teams hinder their cap by doing so just isn't an valid excuse in my opinion. You may not like the going price for starting QB's. But it is what it is. He is by far the best option on our roster. There is nothing better than Kirk in this upcoming free agency or draft. That alone will bump his value up considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Frankly, I wonder if he would consider staying with the Redskins without them paying a premium. That might sound strange to many of you because I'm sure Kirk likes his teammates and the coaches but I wonder how he feels about Snyder and the atmosphere and drama here. It had to be frustrating for him here being drafted the same year as the anointed one and being the apparent red haired stepchild in the owners eye as Griffin was gifted the job for three years. Even now when the job is finally awarded he is seen by so many as a usurper or stand-in rather than the new starter. I have no idea how Cousins feels about things he's highly disciplined so we just see the positive, constructive attitude from him rain or shine. That said I'm not sure the Skins win a jump ball with him if he gets an opportunity to sign with clearly better franchises like Denver or Arizona in the event of a retirement or others teams as well. He grew up in Michigan and the Chicago area so playing for the Bears and Lions might be attractive and what if Kyle Shanhan gets a head coaching job? Cousins may love Gruden feel grateful and want to play for him but how does Kirk feel about the owner and the stability of his coach here? I have no idea but I won't be shocked if Kirk left for even money or less in the end. As for his value in the next 9 are like the first 7 than I believe he's in the 10-12M a year range. Like others said I believe GMs will believe Kirk will do even better with a better franchise and more experience. Most importantly even average guys make 10-12M a year now and 9 more like the first 7 with the Skins is going to look at least average. Cousins intangibles are great there aren'character, personality, work ethic or focus risks he's way above average in those areas as well as healthy and durable. No operations or significant injuries in college or the NFL. To net it out Cousins is average already and trending upward after 25 starts with a struggling franchise and work bring an attractive and holisome new face to any franchise. The Skins better be prepared to pay a premium if things go well down the stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Didn't know his contract expired after the season. Makes sense since he was in the same draft class as RG3. Hard to predict numbers, but I would say something like 3 years for $28 million. That's a random guess, I'm not an agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 You may not like the going price for starting QB's. But it is what it is. He is by far the best option on our roster. There is nothing better than Kirk in this upcoming free agency or draft. That alone will bump his value up considerably. Paying Kirk Cousins $60 mil based off of what we've seen this year is nothing short of foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Paying Kirk Cousins $60 mil based off of what we've seen this year is nothing short of foolish. Depends entirely how they structure in my mind. If it's a "$60 mil contract" which, in reality a 3 year, $21 million contract that's essentially fully guaranteed with 3 years of "team options" on the back end then it's not a horrible deal. That'd be an average of $7 million a year over the three years we'd be locked into the contract; about a $3 million over pay of the top end "steward" type money, but about a $10 million underpay of quality starting QB money. It'd also be relatively similar to the cap hit we've already been carrying for our QB position between the likes of Robert Griffin and Colt McCoy. Draft a guy between the late 1st to early 3rd, and you'd basically be carrying a cap space total of around $8 million for your QB position....which is roughly what we've had tied up in QB's with Griffin/Cousins/McCoy. At that point, worst case, Cousin's is a slightly overpaid backup for a few years. I'm not saying it'd be the right thing to do, but I don't think it's as unquestionably foolish as you seem to suggest depending on how the contract is structured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It should also be mentioned who the possible suitors are: 1) Bills 2) Bears 3) Lions 4) Broncos 5) Texans 6) Eagles 7) Jets 8) Chiefs 9) 49ers Now Goff and Cook will remove 2 teams (Probably Bears and Lions). The rest will go after Cousins, Stafford (If released), Alex Smith, and Bradford. Don't forget Paxton Lynch. He might be the first QB taken. Probably by Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 What does ES want to offer everyone???? VET MIN PLUS INCENTIVES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbothwel Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Don't forget Paxton Lynch. He might be the first QB taken. Probably by Houston. I know everyone loves Lynch right now, and I myself am intrigued. But I need to see more tape. Also, any team that takes him over Cook is going to regret it. Cook is my #1 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I know everyone loves Lynch right now, and I myself am intrigued. But I need to see more tape. Also, any team that takes him over Cook is going to regret it. Cook is my #1 QB I've watched all the 'top' QB prospects this year - none of them excite me as a blue chip prospect - they all have big question marks. Cook might be the one who has the best pro career but thats as middle of the pack starter not someone who is in the Pro Bowl every year. I think he is inconsistent with his accuracy (he has never broken 60% completions in an offense and against competition when he shoud be well over that mark). Goff has talent but is a project in my opinion who will get over drafted. Paxton Lynch might be the most physically talented of the group - but as we all know only too well it takes much more than physical talent to be an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's tough to see a deal with an average around $10M. It's a no-man's land in terms of pricing right now. The only QB within $2M of a $10M average is Tom Brady, and he's getting paid that because he's purposely earning only about 40% of his value. Two next closest to that are Andrew Luck at 7.6M and Nick Foles at 12.25M. Luck, Griffin, Winston, and Mariota are all on rookie deals. The first veteran aside from Brady below Foles at 12.25M is Brian Hoyer at $5.25M. That's quite a gap. If Kirk finishes weakly, he'll come in around Hoyer's numbers, if not worse. If he finishes middling, 2 year 25M is likely (in line with Foles' extension). If he finishes strong, we might not have a choice but to give him a 3 year ~50M deal, as the market will undoubtedly heat up, and he'll need numbers in line with Dalton/Palmer/Smith. 10M/year is a weird number at this time with regard to QB skills at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Frankly, if he has a pretty good season, hes going to want big money, and I dont see the Redskins doing that unless he is GREAT by the end of the year. Otherwise you dangerously give a 4-5 year contract to a one year wonder. If he doesnt have a good season, I see no reason they bring him back with McCoy on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Can we wait for Cousins to play few games in a row at a high level before talking about contracts? If the season ended today, I'd maybe offer a 2-3 year deal worth $10-15M total (average of about $5M). I need to see consistency and he hasn't shown that yet. I'd rather move on and either draft a QB or a stopgap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Does no one read the OP? The hypothetical situation is clearly laid out. What would you offer in THAT situation? THAT is what the OP is asking. All the "if he does this or that" isn't answering the question. Here it is again: So there are some number rangers for you to go with for the second part of this, which is a hypothetical:Kirk Cousin’s final 9 games are similar to his first 7 this year. He puts up another couple of great games, another couple of stinkers, and a handful of ones you could argue either way slightly. We go 3 and 6, splitting with Dallas while having the same results against the Giants (lose) and Eagles (win).In that situation, what level of salary and years would you be willing to offer Cousins to try and retain his services (regardless of whether you think he’d accept such an offer)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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