Taco Bell Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 1) He is not tradeable thanks to the $16M. We will cut him after the season, and he will be free to go anywhere. 2) I'd love a chance to see our D tee off against RG3. I bet they would too. 3) Nobody cares about RG3. This is the Kirk Cousins Sixty Million Dollar Man thread. It's pretty obvious that he's gone, yet he's still worth kept because of the slight chance that Kirk has his legs chopped off in a lawnmower accident and we consider keeping him the following year, as well as that potential possibility a team trades for him as small as the compensation might be. There's almost no reason not to keep him, despite what the media wants you to think. Sure, if he was being a complete asshole causing disturbances maybe we'd cut him, but fortunately, as well as for his future employer, he's not. Have you read the thread? He would not accept those offers. Scott would not make them. They are insultingly low. There are so many reasons why our team will have no interest to play hard ball with Cousins, many have been said already, but the other is, we aren't in a Seattle situation where we have "so many good players that we can't pay them all..." So, when you combine the fact that our franchise isn't exactly the most enticing to come to, the fact that we have a guy that we stuck by and groomed as a 4th rounder means we aren't going to be trying to penny pinch this guy within reason. And I don't see why he would either based on the way his story has went. Yea, we aren't going to donate him the rest of our cap, but the idea that, we are going to be as tight with his contract as a team that literally has to be is not the case either. I'm not talking a massive difference, I just mean, there isn't going to be some sort of 3 month standoff over 5 million dollars max. Anything over that I would consider getting into the substantial territory, if, there is an issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think you're right. And I think it's bad for the team and bad for Kirk's development. Gruden has to do it to prevent Danny Boy from benching Kirk after a really bad game. That's why you saw us coming out running in the second half yesterday. We were up by "only" 13, but Gruden was determined that Kirk wouldn't get a chance to throw an INT. Hopefully he will be allowed to air it out after week 12 or so, when there isn't really a chance that RG3 will be brought in to play out the last month. This is just laughable. We were up by two scores against a prolific offense with a HOF QB. We were averaging 5+ yards per carry. We kept the ball on the ground because it was working, kept Brees off the field and shortened the game all while leading us to more points. We racked up 200+ yards on the ground at over 5 ypc. To say we stopped throwing the ball yesterday to protect Kirk is...well, it's just wrong. As for the contract talk, the most apt comparison of any of the veteran QB's listed and their contracts is Nick Foles. I think this year Foles has once again proven he sucks but he had the one great year as a starter in Philly and was awarded a contract in the $12M/yr range. I think that's what we're seeing this year with Kirk. We'll see how the rest of the season finishes out but I think that's in line with what Kirk's value is based on what he's done and where he's gotten this team, which is to about .500. It's a great step forward, but nowhere near the production or results of any of the guys in that $15M/yr+ mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Given that the Skins were prepared to commit $16M to RG3 next season, isn't that number (as a combo of salary and prorated signing bonus) the starting point for Kirk's camp in negotiations as far as what he should get next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Cooley said on the Drive that Cousins "wants the security immediately". Make it happen, SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Cooley said on the Drive that Cousins "wants the security immediately". Make it happen, SM. That could work out well. Hopefully wanting that security and liking the chances he's gotten here leads to a fair deal for both sides. It's a bit early to commit 5-6 years and $100M, but I wonder if both sides would be open to 2-3 years and $25-35M? That can easily be extended quickly if he continues to improve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I wonder if both sides would be open to 2-3 years and $25-35M? That can easily be extended quickly if he continues to improve! I'd take that in a heart beat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kost203 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 That could work out well. Hopefully wanting that security and liking the chances he's gotten here leads to a fair deal for both sides. It's a bit early to commit 5-6 years and $100M, but I wonder if both sides would be open to 2-3 years and $25-35M? That can easily be extended quickly if he continues to improve! Totally agree with you! Still gotta prove it against the panthers sick defense! And the following week against the cheating Mara's. Still allot of games to be played, let's not forget his bad games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 If he keeps playing well and we're looking for a short term deal I'm guessing it'll be 10 mil+ a year, something like 2 years 27 million. Nick Foles is under contract for about 2 years 24 million. I really don't think 3 years at 4 mil per is realistic like some are suggesting. 5 years at 60 million would be an absolute steal, but I don't think a contract like that is realistic either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 We won't play hardball with Kirk. He gonna at least get that $16 mill rg is supposed to get -- plus! And the better he plays it will keep going up. He is playing qb like this franchise has not seen in years from the pocket. Kirk will have suitors which will drive up the price. If he finishes strong it will have to be in the Dalton range. And if Kyle gets a job. He will pursue Kirk. Guaranteed. Atl inquired in off-season about Kirk. Jets when geno went down. This was alll pre nfc player of week twice. . Skins can't play around. Mike Shanahan gloating. Its a qb driven league. We have not had one in years. It's the one source for nfl stability. We win two of next three. Make offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Andy Dalton also had 33 TDs and 27 TDs the season before the 19 and 17 year. Andy Dalton also has made the playoffs every season since his rookie year and he's never thrown more picks than TDs. Andy Dalton is a better player and it's not really all that close. Dalton walked into a MUCH better situation than Cousins did and he also was named the starter year one. He was drafted to start. Not the case with Cousins. He actually had to win the job from a number one pick that the team mortgaged the future for. Had Cousins been drafted to start day one, and got that playing time, I'd have little doubt that he'd be right where Dalton is. The Bengals were/are a much more stable organization than the Redskins. Can't believe I'm saying that but it's true. Dalton has had one coach and one offense. But I see no reason why Kirk can't reach Dalton's level or even surpass him. Not saying he deserves Dalton's contract right now, he doesn't, but he's headed in that direction if the organization stays stable. The only difference with Dalton is he's got more of a resume and more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurd Cudins Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This was on the front page of spotrac.com http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/contract-forecast-kirk-cousins-558/ They are predicting 3 years, $34 million w/ $13.4 million guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This was on the front page of spotrac.com http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/contract-forecast-kirk-cousins-558/ They are predicting 3 years, $34 million w/ $13.4 million guaranteed This is where I'm at. Right now, Kirk is in the Foles tier of Qbs, or atleast where Foles was before he got the deal as he's benched right now. Outside of ripping off 6 of the next 7 with big numbers or the other side, dropping 6 of 7 and falling off a cliff...this is where he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeast Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This is where I'm at. Right now, Kirk is in the Foles tier of Qbs, or atleast where Foles was before he got the deal as he's benched right now. Outside of ripping off 6 of the next 7 with big numbers or the other side, dropping 6 of 7 and falling off a cliff...this is where he is. Sure that's a reasonable number if we had other options. People are forgetting where what position we are in...he's got us over a barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 This was on the front page of spotrac.com http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/contract-forecast-kirk-cousins-558/ They are predicting 3 years, $34 million w/ $13.4 million guaranteed I think a shorter-term contract would be nice for both sides (especially if this occurs in-season). That's quite a bump from what he's making now and still gives him another contract opportunity in his prime to get a monster deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Sure that's a reasonable number if we had other options. People are forgetting where what position we are in...he's got us over a barrel He certainly has more leverage, but let's remember a couple things... 1) He's succeeding here with this coach. He may want to see what Gruden has done to put Dalton on a path for long-term success. Signing with the Rams or Texans might not provide him with that. 2) He doesn't seem like an "over the barrel" kind of guy assuming we don't insult him with an offer. I'm sure he wants fair value, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay here over squeezing every last dollar out of this opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxskinfan Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 He certainly has more leverage, but let's remember a couple things... 1) He's succeeding here with this coach. He may want to see what Gruden has done to put Dalton on a path for long-term success. Signing with the Rams or Texans might not provide him with that. 2) He doesn't seem like an "over the barrel" kind of guy assuming we don't insult him with an offer. I'm sure he wants fair value, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay here over squeezing every last dollar out of this opportunity. Long time lurker here. I have been following the forum for many years but didn't have much to contribute. Learned a lot and thank you for the great posts. It appears that everyone is comparing Cousins' stat vs Foles, and other similar QBs. But why wouldn't Cousins compare his upcoming contract with the one they offered to Robert for 2016? At minimum he would want $16 mil for next year, or less in average if it is a multi-year contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 A franchise tag for a qb will be what?.. 21mil.. why would he play for 34mil on a 3 year deal? That's wishful thinking. He is going to want to get paid and get a job security of a 4-5 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 But why wouldn't Cousins compare his upcoming contract with the one they offered to Robert for 2016? At minimum he would want $16 mil for next year, or less in average if it is a multi-year contract? They picked up an option valued at 16 million. Clearly at this point, he's never going to see that money. I don't see how Roberts option has anything to do with a multi-year contract for Kirk. A franchise tag for a qb will be what?.. 21mil.. why would he play for 34mil on a 3 year deal? That's wishful thinking. He is going to want to get paid and get a job security of a 4-5 year deal. The franchise tag and Kirk really don't belong in the same sentence until he takes us to the playoffs at minimum. Unless Mike or Kyle get a head coaching job, I don't see how Kirk gets paid top money in free agency. That or as I said above, he wins several more games, taking this team to the playoffs on the strength of his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'm a kirk supporter, but I don't believe he's earned a $15+ million yearly salary quite yet. I'd only offer him that if he continues to show great improvement through the end of the season. If he still struggles to win on the road, or shows inconsistency at years end, I'd still offer him a 2-3 year deal @ $6-7 million per. We'd still need his services since RG3 will be gone, and a rook would need time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The franchise tag and Kirk really don't belong in the same sentence until he takes us to the playoffs at minimum. Unless Mike or Kyle get a head coaching job, I don't see how Kirk gets paid top money in free agency. That or as I said above, he wins several more games, taking this team to the playoffs on the strength of his arm. They surely do.. he has all the negotiating leverage. If he finishes the year strong and assuming Skins end up with around a 50% + winning percentage. Whether or not he deserves the tag value really does not matter when you play the most important position in Football and you showed that you have grown and can win at a high level. So what is the FO to do? 1. Not resign him, and risk the first potential Franchise QB in many years to go to another team and win there. Can you imagine that backlash that will bring? Everyone in the FO will get fired. Not to mention that they would need to have a QB plan in place to draft one in the mid of first round. 2. Sign him to an avg 3 year deal to see if he can get it done consistently year after year. but if he refuses such deal... 3. Franchise him - pay him 21mil for a 1 year deal and if he kills it next year... sign him to a big 4-5 year deal. So if they are not able to get option #2 to go.. i really don't think option 3 is that bad. The one other option that i think can work is to work out an average deal with heavy incentives on playoffs and completion percentage. So if he plays really well he can still get up in to that 20mil/year range. Again, this is all assuming he can win on the road, against good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Again, this is all assuming he can win on the road, against good teams. Then we do agree after all. If he plays lights out the majority of the way, it would most likely mean a playoff berth for the Redskins, which would result in a big deal for him anyway you cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think that the Foles deal would be merely a starting point for Cousins' camp. I get it that Foles/Cousins are both in that "fringe" region of being "competent" QBs at their times of contract - since Foles obviously looks bad this year and is not in that fringe region. He's now more in the struggling sputter region. 2 major things to me, from the outside looking in, make me assume that Cousins' contract will be larger than his. 1 - Foles numbers, even if you were a fan of his (which I was and thoroughly accept that at this current juncture looks like a mistake), were clearly padded by his 2013 year which were flukey to an extent that I don't think anyone's ever seen before. 27-2 TD-INT is almost an impossible line for a non HOF qb. It was also Chip's first year when his "scheme" was actually at it's best. Granted, his numbers (and performance) are far better than Cousins up to their point in contract talks, but the schematic reasons vs. Cousins more "regular" offense he is getting his numbers in, probably either even out or work in Cousin's favor. Since, I think Foles ability to read defenses and do all the QB type crap is more of a mystery than Cousins. If Cousins can be competent for the ****ing redskins, he can probably play somewhere else given adjustment time, lol. 2 - The more important one. Foles "extension" was either drastically increased for "appearances," like "don't worry he's the guy" appearances, or, decreased because of the lack of actually hitting the open market after getting traded. I think it was more the latter, but not by much. I think Foles probably approached this Rams situation as if this was the team he signed with as a FA, since clearly on paper it's not that bad of a destination. So, since he was already on the team and sort of had to do his contract in reverse, it's almost a guarantee that the Rams got him for slightly cheaper than if Foles was on the genuine open market. There is no way Foles was going to cause a disruption to a major degree by demanding "too" much from the team he got traded to after getting out of the powder keg Chip was building over there. Like, he wasn't going to sit out or hold out or whatever. I'm not saying the Rams offer is a complete screw job or anything, I just assume Foles would have gotten more years as a FA, and/or, a bump in perhaps 1 mil per year in salary. ---------- And per usual, all this Kirk contract stuff is always subject to change. I am talking as of today, pre-Carolina game, and obviously rest of season. And, it doesn't mean I am sending in contract offers today either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxskinfan Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'm a kirk supporter, but I don't believe he's earned a $15+ million yearly salary quite yet. I'd only offer him that if he continues to show great improvement through the end of the season. If he still struggles to win on the road, or shows inconsistency at years end, I'd still offer him a 2-3 year deal @ $6-7 million per. We'd still need his services since RG3 will be gone, and a rook would need time to develop. I guess my previous question was, if the FO was willing pick up the $16 mil option given Robert's performance last year, why wouldn't Cousins demands more? And if Robert is being paid $7 million this year as 3rd string, shouldn't Cousins get at least Foles' type deal? At $6-7 mil a year, I don't think there will be lack of suitors who are willing to pay significantly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'd like to go on record and state that just because I think Cousins is in the realm of the same type of contract as Nick Foles, that Cousins certainly appears to be the better quarterback. Not that I watched every Eagles game, but in 2013 it felt like every Nick Foles TD throw was to a guy running wide open by 10 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Anyone know if he signed a contract today with guaranteed money, if that money would be guaranteed immediately or not until the 2016 league year? Not to be gruesome, but if he were to get "Theismanned" on Sunday, what security would he have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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