redskins59 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 By the way, Mccloughan is not perfect in evaluating quarterbacks. He took Alex Smith instead of Rodgers. Now, Alex Smith has had a long career, but to me he is a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 By the way, Mccloughan is not perfect in evaluating quarterbacks. He took Alex Smith instead of Rodgers. Now, Alex Smith has had a long career, but to me he is a bust. I hate to break it to you, but we are going to find out very soon that McCloughan isn't perfect in any capacity. He's going to swing and miss in the draft and in free agency. But, he's one of the best, so hopefully he hits more often than we're used to seeing around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 No team can win when it's always about one guy. Gibbs' teams were never like that. Everybody was expendable. Riggs was brought in to push Riggo. I get your point and I agree. I've said many times I think Griffin will end up holding the team back. But one small correction. Riggins retired in 1985. Riggs came to the Redskins in 1989. It was George Rogers that came in to "replace" Riggins. I'm not sure he was brought in to "push" Riggins as we could all see the writing on the wall for Riggo after the 1985 season. By the way, Mccloughan is not perfect in evaluating quarterbacks. He took Alex Smith instead of Rodgers. Now, Alex Smith has had a long career, but to me he is a bust. So did 21 other GMs. Rodgers had "concerns" according to the scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If you ask me "If things remain primarily as they were last year or a little better, would you rather go into next year with our QB's being Kirk and Colt, or a high draft pick rookie QB and veteran steward"...I'm doing option 2 every time. Kirk would need to play, and play much more consistently well, for me to say I'd prefer the earlier combo. What if Kirk showed that he was making progress? Kirk is undoubtedly ahead of Robert in playing the position as the NFL typically demands of it. Even last year Kirk was adept at making the correct pre-snap read. He was getting the team into the right protections and the right plays. The areas where Kirk struggled was figuring out what was going on post snap and buying time in the pocket. We've already seen that he has been working at maneuvering in the pocket. What remains to be seen is whether or not he has progressed in figuring out what the defense does after the snap. To be fair to Kirk, defenses fool a lot of QB's in the league. There are only about 8 that are good enough to consistently outsmart the defense. Even Andrew Luck struggles in this department. He's thrown a ton of picks but you can see the upside in his game. What Kirk needs to show most of all is that he can get passed the bad play. If he can keep his head in the game then I think you can say you have a solid, starting NFL QB. Maybe not elite but the upside is he wouldn't demand elite money. Which would allow the team to spread the dollars around like Seattle did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I hate to break it to you, but we are going to find out very soon that McCloughan isn't perfect in any capacity. He's going to swing and miss in the draft and in free agency. But, he's one of the best, so hopefully he hits more often than we're used to seeing around here. I think McGloughan said himself that he'll hit on some and miss on some and that it won't be 100%. It's funny how some of our fans get up in arms over trading late round picks for good players (Goldson and Carrier) and don't realize that 1) most of those picks will never make the team and 2) he always likes to have multiple picks, so he'll get them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I get your point and I agree. I've said many times I think Griffin will end up holding the team back. But one small correction. Riggins retired in 1985. Riggs came to the Redskins in 1989. It was George Rogers that came in to "replace" Riggins. I'm not sure he was brought in to "push" Riggins as we could all see the writing on the wall for Riggo after the 1985 season. So did 21 other GMs. Rodgers had "concerns" according to the scouts. Dang it! How did I get those two mixed up!?!?! Thanks for the correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Dang it! How did I get those two mixed up!?!?! Thanks for the correction Same running style. They looked very similar carrying the ball. Riggs wore 37, Rogers was 38, so the numbers were close also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Same running style. They looked very similar carrying the ball. Riggs wore 37, Rogers was 38, so the numbers were close also. And both were older vets who came over from (at the time) NFC West teams after establishing themselves there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Kirk Cousins will be the next Trent Green. He will come in after RG3 gets injured and play great the rest of the season and will go to another team next year in FA because he will not want anything to do with this franchise. That is my fear. I'd like to embrace him and give him his shot at the beginning of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm one of the few who haven't given up hope on Griffin, but I do think that Kirk Cousins can be a serviceable NFL quarterback. (See? You don't have to tear down one to support the other!) The main knock against Kirk - interceptions - is an issue that can be corrected. If the Robert Griffin Experiment fails this season, Cousins will get his chance. Agree with ya Dan...its just a matter i think of how long they are gonna give Robert to show if he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 By the way, Mccloughan is not perfect in evaluating quarterbacks. He took Alex Smith instead of Rodgers. Now, Alex Smith has had a long career, but to me he is a bust. I don't think anyone's suggested that McCloughan is "perfect". He's whiffed on picks before, and not just at the quarterback. Take Kentwan Balmer in the 1st for instance. Or Michael Crabtree over Mike Wallace, Jeremy Maclin, or Percy Harvin. Yeah, there's been misses. It's a greater question of "Are you trusting in him or not". You can point to multiple positions and go "see, he whiffed there once" and suddenly not trust him...but if you're doing that ONLY at QB then it suggests you're doing it for ulterior reasons other than an actual distrust of Scot. Are you also not trusting him about drafting DE's? Or drafting WRs? Or is the only thing you blame him for "whiffing" on being QB, and that "whiff" was one that the vast majority of the league made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 What if Kirk showed that he was making progress? For me it'd need far more than simply "progress". It'd need to be significant progress for me to actually think it's worth sticking with him for the next 2 or 3 years as opposed to looking towards the draft. I didn't see a ton out of Kirk last year that made me think his trajectory is different or better than a Matt Flynn, Matt Cassel, Matt Moore, Ryan Fitzpatrick type. Good backup, capable couple of year "steward" type veteran starter, etc. But it'd need to be a sizable jump in consistency over a game and a season for me to get to the point where I go "hey, he could be the future". If all he did was make me go "He may be good enough to give another year or two" then I'd still say "cut bait and look towards the draft and sign an outsider 'veteran'". Now again...I recognize I'm not a top line NFL scout. And I've stated since we hired him, I'm going to trust in Scot. Right now it seems that Scot simply doesn't view Kirk as that potential future guy. If that changes and that's the direction new go in I'll be 100% on board with it and it would definitely make me re-evaluate what I'm seeing on the field. But right now what our GM seems to be doing/thinking is in line with what my eye balls have been telling me, so I'm not feeling misguided in my thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 RG3 is so bad he has people believing that Kirk Cousins is good. turn that on its head. This organization is so bad that it has wilted two promising young talents. Cousins has been battered less, and now looks shiny by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perez24 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The biggest strike for Cousins in my book is that the NFL has spoken. For two off seasons, the Redskins let it be known that Kirk was on the trading block. Do you see who's getting picked up as a starter around the league? No GM thinks Cousins is a starter. If they did they would jump to claim him for a third or fourth. A fourth rounder for a starting QB I. A cheap rookie contract! That's better than gold. Unless we're missing some super secret talks where the Redskins demanded 3 #1 draft picks for Cousins, I believe you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well Kirk is awful on Madden. So that kinda sways me to the RG3 camp. Sorry guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well Kirk is awful on Madden. So that kinda sways me to the RG3 camp. Sorry guys Out of curiosity, how is RG3 compared to Kirk on Madden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Out of curiosity, how is RG3 compared to Kirk on Madden? Well in madden, speed is always gonna be a difference maker so RG3 is better because you can do more. They both stink throwing the ball downfield but RG3 has the stronger arm. Basically it plays out how the real world would if it was all about physical attributes and not mental ones. I refuse to play Colt (who's actually rated higher than Kirl) because I can't take him seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 What about Trent Green? How come you didn't list him. Taylor, Cousins has 9 starts and you've reached a negative conclusion on him but not on Griffin after 36 starts. Sure that make all kinds of sense. I am the opposite, I'm done with Griffin because I don't think he has enough spatial intelligence to run a WCO and I'm optimistic about Cousins because he has a lot of spatial intelligence and processes things quickly and has a nice arm. He needs improvement and perhaps he won't get over the hump but I bet he will elsewhere. YKyle Shanny says Cousins has potential for the very same reason. Trent Green... Rich Gannon... Brad Johnson... Just off the top of my head....we let some pretty good quarterbacks go over the years... Stan Humphries is another one that got away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I just don't think McCloughan believes that Cousins can be the franchise guy, and I'd trust in his evaluation more than any of us on this site. I think if he DID believe that, he'd be indicating a competition needs to occur or even that Cousins would be the guy. Instead, we have them picking up the option on Griffin and making him the undisputed #1. I'm fine with that, prior to seeing Griffin continue to underwhelm. At some point, when it becomes clear that neither is a franchise QB (at least for this team anyway), it becomes about winning games in the immediate future. If Scot sees Griffin and says he's the best chance to win every week, in spite of the film, then even the great Scot M might have missed this one. Happens to the best of em sometimes. All that said, I still don't want the GM necessarily ordering the head coach on who to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 this is tight, we now have a griffin and a cousins thread. in another week or two you'll be forgiven for forgetting which one you're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The biggest strike for Cousins in my book is that the NFL has spoken. For two off seasons, the Redskins let it be known that Kirk was on the trading block. Do you see who's getting picked up as a starter around the league? No GM thinks Cousins is a starter. If they did they would jump to claim him for a third or fourth. A fourth rounder for a starting QB I. A cheap rookie contract! That's better than gold. I think it showed a question on Griffin more than tepid interest around the league. If the last two years go differently for Griffin, Cousins is long gone. But if you're unsure on Griffin, you're not just gonna give Cousins away for a 4th. If I had to guess, I'd bet we got an offer for at least a 4th and didn't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Interesting posts like most fans who have very short attention span. We have seen a very healthy Cousins. No coach in his right mind will choose a healthy cousins over a healthy Robert Griffin. At least Griffin has an excuse for his suckitude. What is Cousins? He was given every opportunity to make Robert expendable... What does he do? He sucked! That's right. He couldn't pull a Tom Brady and make Bledsoe Griffin expendable. The problem with Griffin is that he is like a fancy car that is always in the shop. But to compare him to Cousins is asinine. I have seen Cousins and if I am a D coordinator, I will not lose sleep over Cousins.... because he will give us the ball. I want to see Kirk Cousins start 16 games this fall. I've given up on the bust I want to see if Cousins can get over the hump before he is lost at the end of the season. In his nine starts he has played extremely well for long stretches and imploded with rashes of INTS. Obviously I want to see if the INTs can be reduced and Kirk can sustain quality play for entire games and strings of games. The Skins need to give a guy with the high ceiling he's shown us at times 16 more starts so he's up to 25 starts before some other franchise gets him and shows the guy that got treated like the red haired stepchild in Washington was really the guy. Spare me the Rex Grossman comparisons, Grossman had 10-12 years to clear up his problems that's on Grossman not Kirk Cousins who has had only 9 starts over 3 seasons. Kirk has the arm and the smarts to play the position its time for Washington to show the smarts to give him the opportunity before the Skins lose two QBs this year. Griffin because he thinks too slow for the NFL and Cousins because the franchise was too stupid to give him a real opportunity to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I have seen Cousins and if I am a D coordinator, I will not lose sleep over Cousins.... because he will give us the ball. Well, that same line of thinking can be used against your defense of Griffin. If I'm a DC, I don't lose sleep over Griffin because his O will be punting in 3 plays. He protects the ball better, but he won't challenge my defense. At least against Cousins, I'll have to cover WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJD2 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ...He protects the ball better,.. Even that is debatable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 That would be good for us but maybe not for him. If he does play well he may not want to sign a 2-3 year deal with us and may want to take his chances next year in FA. Good QBs are in high demand and if he puts out some good tape another team could offer some big money. ... I think Kirk bolts after this season regardless of if he takes over for injury or performance issues. He will know that the organization cares more about players draft status vice performance and he is only playing out of neccessity. He will know he will only be a place holder until the next Danny boy eye candy is drafted and then start this cycle all over again. I think now or very soon is the time to salvage that relationship by letting him play. I don't think it would matter why. I'm sure he would feel more comfortable with this team minus 1 player than a new team all together. I think Kirk is going to be happy to stay with the team that drafted him, if he gets to play at least 10 games this year it would help. Good post, wrecker. We also have to consider money though. If Griffin isn't here anymore, Gruden is committed to Cousins, and we can offer him more money than other options...I think he'll stay regardless of how he is named the starter. This is his chance to cash in and we are a team that hasn't really paid big money to a QB yet. I think he would be happy with a three year deal that would allow him to make low end starter money (unless he lights it up). It would be great to build the team with a guy that can distribute the ball in a timely manner at least for now. We can always look to upgrade if he's not franchise material. We have Colt if he completely ****s the bed or gets hurt, and the 16 Million that would have been paid out guaranteed going back into the cap. The only losers in the deal moving forward are the ones who like to purchase authentic rookie jerseys, load up on platinum foil rookie cards, and make art work in the likeness of a great college player. ...and Madden 16 players, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.