I Want Cousins To Start 16 Games This Fall

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I want Kirk to start for two reasons:

 

1) I do not believe RG3 was nearly as good passing the ball in 2012 as people think he was. His best games all came with under 25 attempts and by far his big plays were to wide open receivers when the read option had people flat footed. And I don't think he will ever reach that form again because I don't think the read option can produce those kind of open receivers and I don't think he has the skill to hit receivers that are in tight coverage consistently.

 

2) I want to be able to properly evaluate the rest of the team. We have some big question marks on offense. Are the guys on the right side of the line any good? Are they worth keeping? Should we bother to re-sign Garcon? Jackson? Is Alfred Morris a top 3, one of a kind, do not let walk for any amount of money kind of back? Is Matt Jones the kind of back worth letting Morris walk for if the numbers don't add up?

 

We can't answer any of the questions in number 2 if the offense isn't moving the ball. With Sir Sacks-a-lot we'll be in the same place we are a year from now: arguing over which sacks are the line's fault and which sacks are on RG3; debating whether Morris can be an every down back on a team that can back the safeties up; wondering if our young depth at receiver is good enough to let one or both of your big names go. And that's not to mention the huge question of whether the defense has been historically bad because we never convert a first down, or if they're really historically bad. 

 

We have a brand new GM this year. We NEED to know if we need to blow this thing up and build from scratch, or if the ship just needs minor corrections. Everyone keeps assuming RG3 will either be awful or be great. But the terrifyingly realistic scenario is that he has some awesome moments interspersed by very long, prolonged periods of mediocrity, as has been the case since 2013. And if that's the case, we'll have the same questions in 12 months that we do now...

[BleedBNG]

Cousins? Nah, if it ain't RGIII... McCoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, I'm not getting off this lawn until I find out who threw those tomatoes.

[Warhead36]

The curiosity in me wants to see Cousins over the course of a season. I don't think he'll be a star or anything, but I think he can be a solid productive NFL starting QB, with the potential to be really good(best case scenario I could see him being a 2nd tier QB like a Flacco/Romo/Eli Manning).

 

Yes he had his issue with turnovers, but just about every young QB does. That's what happens when you're aggressively making throws downfield to move the ball. He's never had the benefit of a running game and has always had to carry the team with his arm(look at the #s, Cousins ALWAYS has to throw the ball a ton, RG3 is at his best when he hardly has to throw it). Its not out of the realm of possibility that, going into his 4th year, he's coming into his own as a QB and will improve.

[Taco Bell]

Those 3 games at the end of 2013 were on a putrid team that had packed it in already, including the HC with a foot out the door,. Nobody was going to look good in that environment.

 

Don't worry, its the literal exact same argument RG3 is getting about the lions game to defend him, but yea, yours is completely 100% absurd and outlandish but for RG3 it's just common sense.

 

Garcon Drop tm  - "the whole narrative of RG3 is changed if Garcon catches that pass"

 

Ungradeable 1st team O Line tm - That says enough about that narrative

 

The idea that a 2nd string QB the same contractual season as the starter might have more on the line personally than a bunch of starters who just went through a terrible string of 13 games that just might not give a **** anymore relative to a backup QB that could steal a starting spot but yea yours makes 0 potential sense. 

 

The only player that's ever quit on our team is Cousins after he threw a couple INTs in a game. (!)

 

But no, 13 games of pathetic football and everyone is an absolute trooper and gave Cousins an equal playing field relative to week 2 of the season no questions asked.

 

The number of dollars you'd earn based on how many times I've heard Cousins quit on our team because of INTs would make you a millionaire in some countries.

 

Yes, I want RG3 to start this whole season so we see what we have in him.  But I also like seeing fair judgment of these guys. 

[88Comrade2000]

Aren't McCoy and Cousins also FAs after this season?

Yep.  

 

If Gruden is here and RG3 isn't; he will probably ask Scott to resign Mccoy.  Once we move on from Robert; maybe it's best to build the rest of the team first.  Have a servicable QB; while we build that team.  Who, is going to want Cousins or Mccoy as a free agent?

 

I haven't paid attention to who the top Qb's will be for 2016.  Does Scott feel there is one out there? 

[Conn]

I never thought I'd say this a few months ago, but I'm starting to agree with this thread. I've criticized Cousins as much as I've criticized Griffin, but what it comes down to is simple for me. And definitely selfish.

 

I just don't enjoy watching Robert Griffin III play football anymore. I just don't. Its frustrating, its nerve-wracking, its just not fun. Not only do I feel like I'm watched an action figure with 146 points of articulation get destroyed every time he takes the slightest hit, but I just cringe at the basic things he screws up, over and over and over. The ceiling is (was, pre-injury?) enormous, but watching RG3 try to play the same game the majority of the QB's in the NFL are playing is so stressful. 

 

Cousins has flaws. Many flaws. And I don't know that they're fixable, either. But he does the basics right, and I'd rather lose because he has a total meltdown in the second half than struggle with 3-and-out after 3-and-out for an entire game crossing my fingers for that one electric play.

 

Watching Cousins play football is just plain more enjoyable for me at this point. I'm not sure if he would translate to more wins, or a better chance at more wins. Because I really don't know how he'd hold up mentally over an entire season (although a small part of me thinks part of the reason he throws so many picks is because as a 4th rounder behind a 2nd overall pick superstar, he always feels the need to make the most of his opportunities to get a shot at starting, to a fault). But I do know that he can be efficient, he can do what he's supposed to after the snap, he can move the chains. He can make the easy throws that are right there. He can give his playmakers the chance to actually earn their money.

 

I think Cousins has a ceiling of good/prime/early-season Ryan Fitzpatrick, maybe Alex Smith if Alex Smith would rip a risky deep ball now and again...but I'd rather watch that than hate watching Griffin struggle with the simplest things every single week between sessions of analyzing whether he's limping after the latest hit or not. 

[mexaskin]

Yup. At the same time, I also think that he can be a starter. I've seen some good stuff. However, Cousin's problems are more than just the interceptions. The interceptions are the biggest, most glaring problem. He also has significant third down and second half issues. Now, they might be correctable, but he hasn't corrected them in three years. He always starts out great and then tails off hard. My guess is that as DC's start game planning for him he has tells which must make him easier to defend. Part of that I suspect is not due to him, but our line. He is a one read QB. First read and it's out. That means corners and safeties can play tight and jump routes with impunity. He also sees things that his arm can't quite do. Which is the Grossman/Farve problem.

His biggest problem though might have been Haslett. With Haslett, no lead was safe no matter how late in the game it was which meant that QBs always had to press and never had a series off. They always had to score or they would fall behind. A better line and a better defense will make both QBs worlds better.

I can pretty much agree with all of your statement. The best thing we could have done for rg3 and our team was give kirk a chance. That would have made both of them better and pushed them both further along. Then the best man would win. I don't care who wins the QB competition. I care about who wins on sunday.

[Koolblue13]

Nah, that was bush league. What goes around comes around.

we could have the rams dline, instead of a bunch of rentals.

[Aireskoi]

Kirk has improved and should continue to improve with NFL experience and time.  The time to play Kirk is coming soon.

 

Baltimore will be the dark light that shines a painful truth on this whole mess.  One way or another we should have some clarity after Saturday.

 

 

Great thread.  It never felt right talking Kirk in the OCD RG3 thread.  He's better than that, but never had his own home here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would be very proud to have him represent the Redskins as our starting QB, assuming he continues to improve.

 

Seems very drama free.

[Audible_Red40]

Wait one year and you'll probably see him have a legit shot to start 16 games.

 

He'll leave here, sign a modest 2 or 3 year deal elsewhere, with an open competition and then ball out.

[Xameil]

Seems very drama free.

So you don't remember some of the comments he made a season ago?

It appears he causes less drama because no one cares what he says.

He'll leave here, sign a modest 2 or 3 year deal elsewhere, with an open competition and then ball out.

Where have I heard this before...

Colt Brennan, Royster, Arrington, every player the redskins release that fans love.

How about we as fans just stfu and trust in the people who see these players everyday...

[TSO]

I was a Kirk "fan" before it was cool to be one, lol.

But I reserve the right to withhold my judgement on this issue until after this Saturday, at the very least. I really want to see how Robert, and the entire first string offense, answer for their total failure against the Lions.

It's just preseason, but it'll say something about their competitiveness, belief in themselves and each other.

Not a whole lot, though. But I'll start leaning back towards this idea if they play poorly in general, and Robert still looks off.

Right now, I just don't want to believe this team made another poor decision this entire offseason focusing on Robert.

For me, the game against Miami will really sway me one way or another.

[Aireskoi]

So you don't remember some of the comments he made a season ago?

 

 

Not anything controversial, no.  Something about preferring to be traded and start than sit on the bench maybe?  Seemed fine to me, but you may be thinking of something more dirty like throwing players and coaches under the bus that I forgot about.

 

I also couldn't find anything on Google that I would consider controversial.

 

 

How about we as fans just stfu and trust in the people who see these players everyday...

 

You first.  I though that fan chatter was the purpose of our membership here.  

[justice98]

Everytime Kirk throws a pick, I envision folks will lose their minds trying to be first to yell "I told you so!!" God forbid he has more than one in a game.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

RG3 is so bad he has people believing that Kirk Cousins is good.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The Philly game where Cousins had the ball at the end and had to move 10 yards to get in FG range and tie at worst and proceeded to throw four straight telegraphed incompletions?

 

Right, because no one ever takes an early-career failure and improves on it. Some people seem so focused on the couple negatives that Cousins has shown to see all the positives. 

 

I would really like to see him get significant playing time with the starters this year (10+ games) so that we know if he is a guy worth giving a second contract. I believe that we know Griffin's fate and since we are going to be a double-digit loss team either way, why not learn more about the other guys at that position? 

 

You could still sign Cousins to a modest contract if you are encouraged by what he produces. I agree with the OP and would love to see a full 16 games, but I think it's pretty clear that Gruden is being instructed to start Griffin. My guess is that Cousins will get the nod in week 4 or 5 unless something changes drastically. I'm already excited. 

[MartinC]

we could have the rams dline, instead of a bunch of rentals.

We could have a lot of things. But the Rams being disrespectful - or at least Fisher - has nothing to do with that. He/they will get theirs at some point.

[Dub70s]

wait one more season and then leave with him

[wrecker]

Kirk Cousins will be the next Trent Green. He will come in after RG3 gets injured and play great the rest of the season and will go to another team next year in FA because he will not want anything to do with this franchise.

[LEED3D]

What do we have to lose at this point? BB clearly isn't getting it done so why not throw Cousins out there and see if he can overcome his mental collapses. At least with Kirk behind center we have the slightest chance of being competitive. I enjoy watching this team move towards the end zone not away from it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Kirk Cousins will be the next Trent Green. He will come in after RG3 gets injured and play great the rest of the season and will go to another team next year in FA because he will not want anything to do with this franchise.

 

That's honestly my biggest concern. I think the 2.5 seasons that we've seen Griffin is a large enough sample size to be relatively confident that we can let him walk. We have 0.5 seasons of Cousins and my biggest fear is that we don't evaluate him thoroughly before having to decide whether or not to sign him to a second contract. 

 

I think it's a positive either way - if he plays well, then that's an obvious positive. But if he plays poorly over an extended sample size with the starters, then we probably can truly write off his pre-season success to "playing against scrubs" and other factors. Either way, we should have a clear picture of what we have with all three guys. 

 

Personally, I think there's a decent chance that we find out he's worthy of another season or more in Washington under this coaching staff. We could sign him to a 2-3 year deal and try to bring McCoy back as a #2. 

[ZRagone]

I just don't think McCloughan believes that Cousins can be the franchise guy, and I'd trust in his evaluation more than any of us on this site. I think if he DID believe that, he'd be indicating a competition needs to occur or even that Cousins would be the guy. Instead, we have them picking up the option on Griffin and making him the undisputed #1.

 

I absolutely loathe the idea of signing Kirk Cousins to any kind of lengthy deal, even 2 or 3 years, unless he comes in after Robert is injured this year and just lights the world on fire.

 

Why?

 

Because I absolutely believe that the plan right now is that either Griffin show's he can be the Franchise guy OR we get a new QB next year.

 

IF we get a new QB next year, I would rather a journeyman "veteran" starter that he has to compete with as opposed to someone like Kirk Cousins. The reason for this is because it's less likely to cause a QB controversy. There is already so much invested in Cousins by some fans that if we bring in a young guy with Cousins as the "steward" that I think we'd end up running into the same general QB controversy situation we have now. I don't think that happens with a Matt Cassel, Matt Moore, Ryan Fitzpatrick type "steward" QB.

 

I've said before that I think Cousins can be a starter in this league. And I do think that. However, I see him being a starter in the same way those above guys are; someone that can come in and start half a season or a season with a young QB being groomed behind him, or someone that can come into a team that's pretty set already and be a solid holdover QB. I don't see him being a franchise QB in this league; and I don't believe McCloughan does either given this off season. And I don't think he can be that HERE because of the situation around him the past 4 years changes the dynamic a bit.

 

As such, I'd rather see the one guy on our team that I think has the potential to reach a franchise QB level....even if he fails....than roll with Cousins. If Griffin fails, which may be a high likelihood, then I'd rather begin the process of looking for the QB of the future and continuing full rebuild rather than going "well, lets see if we can make it work with Kirk".

 

If you ask me "If things remain primarily as they were last year or a little better, would you rather go into next year with our QB's being Kirk and Colt, or a high draft pick rookie QB and veteran steward"...I'm doing option 2 every time. Kirk would need to play, and play much more consistently well, for me to say I'd prefer the earlier combo.

 

If you don't trust that McCloughan has the control he required to come here, and the control we've been led to believe he has, then I can understand having doubts about how they view and evaluate Kirk Cousins and Griffin as it relates to the future. But if you DO trust that Clou has that control, and DO trust in his judgement, then I don't understand the "....but put in Cousins anyway" mentality.

[ThomasRoane]

I reluctantly am in agreement.

 

I think RG3 is not very good.

...

I think he's broken, i think the relationship with the coach and his teammates is broken.

...

If all that needs fixing is his psyche... compared to ALL the problems RG needs fixed.. it's a no brainer.

If we want to win, RG3 can't start.

 

Sadly, the team is forgotten in the RG III experiment.  There will be 52 other players on the team who want to win.  By continuing to trot RG III out there without a legitimate competition you are basically telling the other 52 that they have to work their butts off for what they get but the "owner's pet" will get every chance to succeed even if it means that their careers must suffer for it. 

 

No team can win when it's always about one guy.  Gibbs' teams were never like that.  Everybody was expendable.  Riggs was brought in to push Riggo.  He won with three different QB's.  I don't believe for a second that a player would purposely try to make Robert look bad.  They don't want to put something bad on tape that might prevent them from getting a job elsewhere.  But there is certainly a lack of energy and enthusiasm when he's in the game. 

 

RG III seems to be a boat anchor to tempo.  Everything and everyone seems faster when Colt or Kirk are in the game. It's not personal for the players.  It's like Doc Walker says.  "If you can help me win I love you.  If you are causing us to lose I hate you!"

[wrecker]

That's honestly my biggest concern. I think the 2.5 seasons that we've seen Griffin is a large enough sample size to be relatively confident that we can let him walk. We have 0.5 seasons of Cousins and my biggest fear is that we don't evaluate him thoroughly before having to decide whether or not to sign him to a second contract. 

 

I think it's a positive either way - if he plays well, then that's an obvious positive. But if he plays poorly over an extended sample size with the starters, then we probably can truly write off his pre-season success to "playing against scrubs" and other factors. Either way, we should have a clear picture of what we have with all three guys. 

 

Personally, I think there's a decent chance that we find out he's worthy of another season or more in Washington under this coaching staff. We could sign him to a 2-3 year deal and try to bring McCoy back as a #2. 

 

That would be good for us but maybe not for him. If he does play well he may not want to sign a 2-3 year deal with us and may want to take his chances next year in FA. Good QBs are in high demand and if he puts out some good tape another team could offer some big money.

 

If Robert stinks it up this Saturday the decision will need to be made in my opinion if they want to keep Kirk going forward.

Gruden keeping the locker room will also hinge on this decision.

 

The only way they keep Kirk is if Robert comes in and plays well, gets injured, and Kirk takes over.

If Robert plays poorly and they keep him in as the starter game after game of poor performance I think Kirk bolts after this season regardless of if he takes over for injury or performance issues. He will know that the organization cares more about players draft status vice performance and he is only playing out of neccessity.

 

He will know he will only be a place holder until the next Danny boy eye candy is drafted and then start this cycle all over again.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Good post, wrecker. We also have to consider money though. If Griffin isn't here anymore, Gruden is committed to Cousins, and we can offer him more money than other options...I think he'll stay regardless of how he is named the starter. This is his chance to cash in and we are a team that hasn't really paid big money to a QB yet.