Zguy28 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Anyone, whether they are straight LABCDEFGHIJKMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever, is wrong for feeling "entitled" to sex from anyone. But to say a transsexual man, isn't allowed to be sexually attracted to women, seems kinda out of place. I still can't figure out if a "transexual man" is a male wanting to be female or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So, have you been called transphobic because you won't have sex with a trans woman with a penis? It happens regularly to Lesbians. I am a woman, of course I have a vested interest in this topic. You run in interesting circles. I know several lesbians pretty well. None of them have ever complained about this particular problem. They have, however, complained about other things concerning their sexuality/place in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 LSF--- if you take sex out of the discussion, it makes things a little easier to get to the core issue. I *think* a lot of what has you riled is that you feel like you, and fellow lesbians have built/are trying to build something based on your shared viewpoints/shared experiences. You feel like trans m-f people don't fit your shared history, and come to the table with a very different agenda/view point, and you feel like their presence threatens what your community has built/are trying to build. right? (the sex aspect just distracts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Gentlemen, regain your composure. No more of that. This is making my head hurt. What... I don't even... This is his regular m.o. if i have to be called out for someone to finally call him out I'll take that hit for the team. I actually held back. It's old. But whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is his regular m.o. if i have to be called out for someone to finally call him out I'll take that hit for the team. I actually held back. It's old. But whatever If you feel that he's breaking the rules just report the post and let the mods handle it. If you wish to discuss it more PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 pm sending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Is there a mask for drunk? The Eli pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 LSF--- if you take sex out of the discussion, it makes things a little easier to get to the core issue. I *think* a lot of what has you riled is that you feel like you, and fellow lesbians have built/are trying to build something based on your shared viewpoints/shared experiences. You feel like trans m-f people don't fit your shared history, and come to the table with a very different agenda/view point, and you feel like their presence threatens what your community has built/are trying to build. right? (the sex aspect just distracts.) At the core, yes. However much the sex issue is a distraction to you, it is real to some of us who have to deal with it. Not all Lesbians have to deal with it. I'd say most trans women are respectful of women, especially the ones who want male partners. It's the trans women who want female partners who still act like males with respect to sex. And attacking women is not a good way to attract a woman. I don't want to not be able to discuss issues important to me because it's considered "transphobic and violent to trans women" to talk about issues concerning biological females. Most of the women's centers in the gay communities around the US are now dominated by trans. This takes away from work necessary to benefit females and children. Me and others I am aligned with focus on women and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I assume if someone said 'the gays are taking over ___' that would piss you off? I can understand being called names because you don't want a penis would be very infuriating. Maybe it's just me, but you seem to have the very same views of trans as homophobes have of gays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacePenguin Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 No one on ES is saying this, but there are plenty of trans women on the internet who assert their right to Lesbians. Cotton ceiling. You all are not exposed to this like I am. Radical feminists like myself are regularly vilified by trans women because we are gender critical. I took a break from posting in The Tailgate on these topics because it's exhausting trying to educate those who will not see. If there was no gender, people could be who they are without resorting to the Medical Industrial Complex for expensive surgeries, hormones and so on. Who do you think really profits from the trans phenomena? This is so ridiculously offensive that I don't know where to begin. I swear that you are the only lesbian who I've heard make this claim. Even conceding that this event is commonplace, shouldn't the diatribe be about how horrible it is for a person to try to guilt someone else into having sex with them in general, rather than "OMG, they are different than us and doing that?" It seems pretty clear that you are either unwilling or unable to acknowledge people as any gender aside from the one assigned at birth. Why pretend that your prejudice is anything but? Medical industrial complex? Lol...Seriously, how many soapboxes are u able to stand on at once? It really MUST be exhausting trying to educate people in the fine arts of bigotry and hipster conspiracy theory simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 LSF--- if you take sex out of the discussion, it makes things a little easier to get to the core issue. I *think* a lot of what has you riled is that you feel like you, and fellow lesbians have built/are trying to build something based on your shared viewpoints/shared experiences. You feel like trans m-f people don't fit your shared history, and come to the table with a very different agenda/view point, and you feel like their presence threatens what your community has built/are trying to build. right? (the sex aspect just distracts.) I have no frame of reference for this at all - but thats never stopped me having an opinion before so ... If I was a feminist who had spent years being discriminated against and patronised by men and since I was a lesbian as well probably with an extra dose on top I would be pretty pissed off if men deciding they want to be/act like/are women who are, lets face it, men (at least pre op - I'm not getting onto the whole post opp situation as that way lies madness for me at least) started telling me how I should act and feel as a women I'd be pretty pissed off. As for the sex topic ... Hope you made it through that mangled sentence! Meanwhile here is Monty Pythons take on this subject ... https://youtu.be/sFBOQzSk14c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I have no frame of reference for this at all - but thats never stopped me having an opinion before so ... If I was a feminist who had spent years being discriminated against and patronised by men and since I was a lesbian as well probably with an extra dose on top I would be pretty pissed off if men deciding they want to be/act like/are women who are, lets face it, men (at least pre op - I'm not getting onto the whole post opp situation as that way lies madness for me at least) started telling me how I should act and feel as a women I'd be pretty pissed off. As for the sex topic ... Hope you made it through that mangled sentence! Meanwhile here is Monty Pythons take on this subject ... https://youtu.be/sFBOQzSk14c I think the "let's face it" part of this is the problem. Because I'm not sure anyone has to face anything. I had a toe in the LGBT world for a number of years through some friends, and I had never seen the kind of rift that LSF is discussing. It probably does exist but this sounds like some fringe debate between different camps of Trostkyites or something similar. I'm not sure it demanded three pages of debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think the "let's face it" part of this is the problem. Because I'm not sure anyone has to face anything. I had a toe in the LGBT world for a number of years through some friends, and I had never seen the kind of rift that LSF is discussing. It probably does exist but this sounds like some fringe debate between different camps of Trostkyites or something similar. I'm not sure it demanded three pages of debate. That Monty Python clip I posted sums it all up for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thank you, MartinC, you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 LKB gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Is it just me or does anybody else the whole transgender thing this way: Transgender movement seeks to make it normal/acceptable to switch genders by divorcing gender from biology. This is self-defeating because the inevitable outcome is the destruction of gender altogether. This is why it is most surprising to me that LSF is against it, because that outcome seems to be her goal. Once gender is divorced from biological sex, there is no longer man or woman since they are descriptive of the latter, no longer the former. That probably doesn't make a lot of sense, because this topic by its nature introduces chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Bathrooms: Use the one you have the physical equipment to use, no matter what gender you are/identify with. Problem solved. Sports? You play on the team that matches your equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins3D Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Bathrooms: Use the one you have the physical equipment to use, no matter what gender you are/identify with. Problem solved. Sports? You play on the team that matches your equipment. That was my response. Way too simple for 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 That was my response. Way too simple for 2015 I don't care how anyone identifies themselves. That's their business. Doesn't make a difference to me in any way and I'm all about people living happy lives and being themselves. I do, however, understand that we are born with certain equipment. Barring surgery, you can't change that equipment. And even with surgery you're just adding/removing things. The chromosomes are still there. But, if you go ahead with the surgery, feel free to use the bathroom of the gender you identify with. That's commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Is it just me or does anybody else the whole transgender thing this way: Transgender movement seeks to make it normal/acceptable to switch genders by divorcing gender from biology. Gender being divorced from biology wouldn't be enough though would it? The concept of gender would remain in that scenario and with it roles and stereotypes. The movements that confuse sameness with tolerance, that see openly celebrating ourselves as hostile towards those that are different, cant possibly end with us being free to be even more different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Personally, I view the entire trans-gender issue as simply a failure of the psychiatric fields But, I'm a caveman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I have no idea how to approach this situation. But i cannot deny I have thought about it considerably over the last few years This is where I am. I can't wrap my head around the issue. I have friends that are having their first kid (which my wife and I are too) and they've said some weird things that I just don't understand. There's a whole movement of people that have decided you should not give you child a gender specific name, or you should give them toys for both genders, and otherwise avoid anything that's gender specific. Supposedly this lets them find themselves without being "forced" into identifying with a specific gender. I don't understand it, at what point are you actually creating the problem instead of helping? Isn't it possible you're just confusing a kid that would otherwise not have had any issues with gender identification? The whole thing is weird to me. I don't understand why anyone thinks it's appropriate to let a 5 year old decide whether it is a boy or a girl. But I suppose that's easy for me to say, I never went through anything like this... I don't recall making the decision to "like girls" or "be a boy" when I was 5, but I suppose it's a little different when the way you feel doesn't go along with the way everyone else around you feels... Anyways. Yeah. Lots of thinking over the last year about this issue. If anything I'm more confused than when I started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Gender being divorced from biology wouldn't be enough though would it? The concept of gender would remain in that scenario and with it roles and stereotypes. The movements that confuse sameness with tolerance, that see openly celebrating ourselves as hostile towards those that are different, cant possibly end with us being free to be even more different. I don't even know what this means.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This is where I am. I can't wrap my head around the issue. I have friends that are having their first kid (which my wife and I are too) and they've said some weird things that I just don't understand. There's a whole movement of people that have decided you should not give you child a gender specific name, or you should give them toys for both genders, and otherwise avoid anything that's gender specific. Supposedly this lets them find themselves without being "forced" into identifying with a specific gender. I don't understand it, at what point are you actually creating the problem instead of helping? Isn't it possible you're just confusing a kid that would otherwise not have had any issues with gender identification? The whole thing is weird to me. I don't understand why anyone thinks it's appropriate to let a 5 year old decide whether it is a boy or a girl. But I suppose that's easy for me to say, I never went through anything like this... I don't recall making the decision to "like girls" or "be a boy" when I was 5, but I suppose it's a little different when the way you feel doesn't go along with the way everyone else around you feels... Anyways. Yeah. Lots of thinking over the last year about this issue. If anything I'm more confused than when I started. The answer is to love your child and support them. No matter what. I have a 4 year old daughter. She loves to play with Micro Machines and Matchbox Cars, as well as Anna and Elsa dolls. She loves to wear shorts and t-shirts, and also has a princess "dress up" outfit. She's 4. She doesn't understand gender or sex. I think if we just let our kids be kids and not worry about what they like to play things would be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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