VCDefectors Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Maybe as a head coach, yes. I don't think anyone would doubt his defensive acumen. What's your point? He's not going to be a head coach here. Ironically, though, there seems to be a sharp increase in Cowboy fan activity here tonight... I'm just a little surprised by the love for Phillips around here, that's all. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with his defenses during his time in Dallas. He didn't really put a personal stamp on a 3-4 defense largely built by Parcells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm not disagreeing that he's a bad GM, I've made it clear on numerous occasions this offseason that Bruce should, if he's retained at all, be moved to President and a true personnel GM brought in, with all the powers that entails. But attacks on his contract structures and cap management are mostly lacking in legitimacy (and he did NOT get us into the cap penalty, it was about as clear a violation of antitrust law as could be, but the NFLPA signed away their rights to sue, and the Redskins and Cowboys had more to lose by suing than to gain). The Cap Penalty was voted on by all the the teams 29-0 with the Redskins and Cowboys and an anonymous team abstaining. You can spout the nonsense all you want, meanwhile back at he ranch and the real world the Skins and Boys did something that every other team agreed not to do. Glad you admit he is a bad GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So is wade the brother, the son, or the nephew of Bum? Never got that straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So is wade the brother, the son, or the nephew of Bum? Never got that straight. Son, not that it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think you're evaluation is as good as you think. You're still off the mark on all points. LOL You can type a five page post all you want. It's funny how you attempt to justify franchising Orakpo. They didn't franchise him under the pretense of just wanting to evaluate him another year. They really tried to get him locked up long term, which would have been a disaster and still might be if they get what they want. The fact remains that he is not a game changing player and should never have been franchised for any reason. Oh, I didn't say the Redskins should franchise anyone else. You made that up. You are right about them not talking about an extension and I was wrong about it. In looking at the transcript, Allen hopes Hatcher has a great career as a Redskins. As far as whether it handcuffed the Redskins, I don't know if it did because I don't know if they tried or wanted to sign anyone else. Maybe they signed everyone they wanted to which would mean it didn't handcuff the Redskins but that doesn't mean it wasn't a waste of money. $4.5 million in dead space is just for one player. We don't know if that will be just one player or there will be others. Too soon to know. Wade Phillips may very well succeed here but it is the same as all the other hires. There is a connection that can't be denied. When the Redskins bring in an outsider, I'll give them credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm just a little surprised by the love for Phillips around here, that's all. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with his defenses during his time in Dallas. He didn't really put a personal stamp on a 3-4 defense largely built by Parcells. I might be wrong, but didn't Ware have his best years under Wade? I do remember you guys having one heck of a pass rush under him. Or am I recalling it incorrectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The Cap Penalty was voted on by all the the teams 29-0 with the Redskins and Cowboys and an anonymous team abstaining. You can spout the nonsense all you want, meanwhile back at he ranch and the real world the Skins and Boys did something that every other team agreed not to do. Glad you admit he is a bad GM. You do realize that what you just outlined the other teams as having done is quite literally the definition of an antitrust violation, right? If there was an agreement, it was illegal (and in light of the fact that plenty more teams than just the 4 penalized went over the imaginary cap, enforced very selectively). Multiple actors are not allowed to agree and collude to reduce price or output. The salary cap is normally exempt from antitrust action because of the CBA, which places the NFL and NFLPA inside the statutory labor exemption. In the uncapped year, no such CBA existed and as a result any agreements between teams to constrain salaries would have fallen outside the exemption. We were actually punished for following the laws of the United States in not going along with an illegal collusive act. DO NOT blame Bruce for the punishment, doing so basically says we should have broken the law AND remained in Vinny's cap hell. And your use of "admit" may be misplaced (maybe not, but it seems to be). It seems to imply I just hopped on the "Bruce sucks" wagon when I've been there for some time. I have "agreed" with your estimation of his overall capabilities for quite some time. #1. LOL You can type a five page post all you want. It's funny how you attempt to justify franchising Orakpo. They didn't franchise him under the pretense of just wanting to evaluate him another year. They really tried to get him locked up long term, which would have been a disaster and still might be if they get what they want. The fact remains that he is not a game changing player and should never have been franchised for any reason. #2 Oh, I didn't say the Redskins should franchise anyone else. You made that up. You are right about them not talking about an extension and I was wrong about it. In looking at the transcript, Allen hopes Hatcher has a great career as a Redskins. #3 As far as whether it handcuffed the Redskins, I don't know if it did because I don't know if they tried or wanted to sign anyone else. Maybe they signed everyone they wanted to which would mean it didn't handcuff the Redskins but that doesn't mean it wasn't a waste of money. #4 $4.5 million in dead space is just for one player. We don't know if that will be just one player or there will be others. Too soon to know. #5 Wade Phillips may very well succeed here but it is the same as all the other hires. There is a connection that can't be denied. When the Redskins bring in an outsider, I'll give them credit. #1. Disaster averted then. I don't think anyone, including our less than competent GM Allen, would make the mistake signing Orakpo long term without it being cheap and team friendly. Barring some bone headed move that would be out of character even for us, the greatest dangers Orakpo has posed to us from a cap perspective have been circumvented. #2. You didn't suggest anyone else directly, but you said to franchise "superstars." On the Redskins, there was (unfortunately) no one more deserving than Orakpo. #3. Well, the Redskins had enough money left over from FA to go sign DJax and draft players, which implies we had wiggle room back during the start of FA when no one expected DJax to be released. That wiggle room means that if we failed to sign someone, it was because we lost them on grounds outside of being cash strapped. #4. I outlined the likely dead cap costs we'll face over the next three years if we make smart cuts. 5.5M in 2015, 7M in 2016, 4M in 2017. As much as I hate dead cap, for the addition by subtraction we'd be doing, these numbers are small. Prior to 2015 signings, our liabilities for 2016 if we make some choice cuts leave us with 92M in cap space. Plenty of space available (only signing that could upset that would be a major QB contract). #5. I mean, I suppose he has very thin ties, though their influence is likely nothing. It's worth noting that a large part of the reason we don't have more potential candidates tied to people on our team is because we've literally filled the FO with Tampa/Tusker personnel. Most teams have a group with a more varied background that would make finding candidates with zero ties to anyone in the organization difficult. If we actually had a better FO, we'd be in the same boat. Most teams have no qualms about internal ties. Now, we, on the other hand, do have some legitimate concern with guys like Joe Barry and Raheem Morris, but we shouldn't let concerns over internal ties swallow the meritocratic process (a process that will likely make Phillips look very good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 You do realize that what you just outlined the other teams as having done is quite literally the definition of an antitrust violation, right? If there was an agreement, it was illegal (and in light of the fact that plenty more teams than just the 4 penalized went over the imaginary cap, enforced very selectively). Multiple actors are not allowed to agree and collude to reduce price or output. The salary cap is normally exempt from antitrust action because of the CBA, which places the NFL and NFLPA inside the statutory labor exemption. In the uncapped year, no such CBA existed and as a result any agreements between teams to constrain salaries would have fallen outside the exemption. We were actually punished for following the laws of the United States in not going along with an illegal collusive act. DO NOT blame Bruce for the punishment, doing so basically says we should have broken the law AND remained in Vinny's cap hell. And your use of "admit" may be misplaced (maybe not, but it seems to be). It seems to imply I just hopped on the "Bruce sucks" wagon when I've been there for some time. I have "agreed" with your estimation of his overall capabilities for quite some time. OMG, thanks Dan. You do realize we got the penalty we deserved and everyone in America that could defend us did. LOL. I love the ignorance of the burgundy tribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 OMG, thanks Dan. You do realize we got the penalty we deserved and everyone in America that could defend us did. LOL. I love the ignorance of the burgundy tribe. You speak of ignorance and yet have no understanding of the antitrust law that is implicated in the creation and operation of a sports league like the NFL. Just because we were punished doesn't mean we deserved to be and just because everyone else conspired to commit an antitrust violation doesn't mean we should have joined in. Put aside your blind hate of Bruce Allen and free agency for 2 minutes. That kind of emotional response is the kind that leads to an incapacity to make good decisions, much like some in our front office (though separating emotions from incompetence is a little tough sometimes). __________________ Anyways, Antitrust Law 101 aside, I'm hoping Phillips, if he is hired, can get the most out of our pass rushers. Kerrigan is a truly top tier talent. Ok, well maybe not Watt level, but 13.5 sacks is darn good. Hatcher, who Wade is familiar with, flashed some ability. Wade hopefully can train Murphy, and whoever is back on the DLine can be taught and schemed to be more effective. I might be wrong, but didn't Ware have his best years under Wade? I do remember you guys having one heck of a pass rush under him. Or am I recalling it incorrectly? Ware's best year was under Wade (20 sacks 2008). His 2nd best year was under Garrett (2011, 19.5 sacks). His 3rd and 4th best years were under Wade. Of course he's also overseen Watt's growth. And somehow managed to get 27 sacks in two years out of Shawne Merriman (and 18.5 out of Shaun Phillips) when he was with the Chargers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtn130 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 OMG, thanks Dan. You do realize we got the penalty we deserved and everyone in America that could defend us did. LOL. I love the ignorance of the burgundy tribe. This is nonsense. The other 30 teams had every right to be angry, but the way punishment was retroactively meted out was entirely unfair and unethical. As the other poster pointed out, the two teams elected not to collude with the others and got punished for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseNeckred Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I hope we sign him, honestly he was even a better head coach than he was given credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I should say that when i raise my hand emphatically for Wade, it's because THIS team needs any success it can get. I don't think we can afford to hire a project that will fail. We need someone with success and experience. Wade fits the bill. I don't know or believe that Wade will suddenly turn us into a top defense (a true top defense, not that ridiculous yardage notion), but he will certainly make them better with ideas that DO work. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I should say that when i raise my hand emphatically for Wade, it's because THIS team needs any success it can get. I don't think we can afford to hire a project that will fail. We need someone with success and experience. Wade fits the bill. I don't know or believe that Wade will suddenly turn us into a top defense (a true top defense, not that ridiculous yardage notion), but he will certainly make them better with ideas that DO work. ~Bang Hell, If Wade can get us merely into the middle of the pack (or even high teens), I can't see how that wouldn't be considered a success at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Has the interview timeline been clarified to any greater detail than "this week?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The Cap Penalty was voted on by all the the teams 29-0 with the Redskins and Cowboys and an anonymous team abstaining. You can spout the nonsense all you want, meanwhile back at he ranch and the real world the Skins and Boys did something that every other team agreed not to do. Glad you admit he is a bad GM. This is untrue. They all chose to vote against the redskins and cowboys because it improved their cap space. That's basically called a bribe. They also bribed off the nflpa, in which those dummies didn't realize it until it was too late. Furthermore, about a dozen teams did the same thing in smaller numbers. So, hypocrisy. And to top it all off, there were no rules broken. If your assertion is that Bruce was wrong simply because the team was punished, while ignoring virtually everything involved, I don't think you'll find many people who aren't a league employee who will agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters20 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't care if he wasn't a good HC. Don't care if he's not the best coordinator in the league and old. All I care about is: 1. He is not Jim Haslett.... 2. He can make chicken salad out of chicken **** defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCDefectors Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I might be wrong, but didn't Ware have his best years under Wade? I do remember you guys having one heck of a pass rush under him. Or am I recalling it incorrectly? There were players like Ware who had individual success (Ratliff, Spencer, Lee, etc.) but I don't recall the Cowboys ever having an elite defense during his time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The Cap Penalty was voted on by all the the teams 29-0 with the Redskins and Cowboys and an anonymous team abstaining. You can spout the nonsense all you want, meanwhile back at he ranch and the real world the Skins and Boys did something that every other team agreed not to do. Glad you admit he is a bad GM. Yeah, all 29 of them also go a piece of the cap that Washington and Dallass lost. Raiders abstained because they had a cap penalty of their own and weren't eligible to receive anything.Basically if you were an owner of one of those teams and the NFL told you you would get additional cap money courtesy of Washington and Dallass, you'd take it too. I see Gamebreaker said the same thing I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's hard to judge a coordinator's performance when he's the head coach. Norv is the perfect example.. lousy head coach, but no one would argue he's a bad offensive coordinator. the jobs are entirely different, and i typically cringe when a coach tries to handle both roles. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's hard to judge a coordinator's performance when he's the head coach. Norv is the perfect example.. lousy head coach, but no one would argue he's a bad offensive coordinator. the jobs are entirely different, and i typically cringe when a coach tries to handle both roles. ~Bang Agree. Wade his been my first choice since that other guy was shown the door. His 1 gap attacking cover 4/8 style is just what we need. For 5 years we were supposed to be playing the Steelers style of 3-4, but it's really been a passive unimaginative style. Here's a link to an article about Wade's defense. It is from 2011 when he was with the Texans, but it explains what he does. Talking about the players reminds me of our team and what he had to work with. http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/1/4/1913068/thats-so-crazy-it-just-might-work-examining-wade-phillips-3-4-scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogNose Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 His son being a Skins coach is probably a motivating factor. Bring Wade in here...I'd be happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Throughout the season, I kept hearing people begging for Smith and Wade to join this team. Now that it may become a reality it's the worst possible football move, a sign of incompetence, nepotism, and doomed to failure. I really can't blame anyone for their negativism, but I wonder how many people realize how bloody inconsistent they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Things really have changed under Bruce Allen - it used to be old coaches came out of retirement so that they could get their sons a job here, but now we're hiring sons to lure their aging fathers out of retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Things really have changed under Bruce Allen - it used to be old coaches came out of retirement so that they could get their sons a job here, but now we're hiring sons to lure their aging fathers out of retirement. I mentioned this on twitter when someone mentioned luring Wade; it's a nice thought that our FO is that clever. Alas, if we truly were that calculating we'd probably have more than 7 wins in the past 2 years, haha. And we should probably avoid popping the champagne until after Gruden's term. If Cowher is brought in for 2016.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm just a little surprised by the love for Phillips around here, that's all. Personally, I wasn't all that impressed with his defenses during his time in Dallas. He didn't really put a personal stamp on a 3-4 defense largely built by Parcells. Right, because he was only the head coach in Dallas. He is completely different as a DC; much like Norv Turner. I'd take him in a second as OC--wouldn't touch him with a 10-ft. pole as a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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