DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 There were players like Ware who had individual success (Ratliff, Spencer, Lee, etc.) but I don't recall the Cowboys ever having an elite defense during his time here. Well, like Riggo#44 said, HC is a little different from DC. His defenses were usually top half, but only 1 year was it "elite" was 2009, when they were 9th in yards but 2nd in points. His time with the Chargers (04-06) and with Houston (11-13) are probably better gauges in terms of him being a DC. He had top 10 defenses (both yards and points) 3 times ('06, '11, '12), defenses in between 10-12 twice ('04, '05), and one defense that was 7th in yards, but 24th in points ('13, when Houston had a meltdown and he became interim head coach). _______________ Also, while not wanting to dredge up the cap debate from yesterday too much, checking overthecap briefly I noticed that in terms of liabilities for 2016 and 2017, we currently are 9th and 6th in terms of least liabilities to current players, which means we've got well above average cap room for the future. You know who we don't want to be? The Saints. 139M in liabilities on the books for 2016, or a little over 10M projected space. The average space for 2016 currently is in the 60Ms (we've presently got 74M, with likely adding a bunch from cuts like Bowen). They literally have -20M in cap space. They are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Wade is so good he's out of coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Wade is so good he's out of coaching And possibly the only defensive coach desperate enough to take the job of DC on the sinking ship that is Jay Gruden's tenure. Its funny to me that people still think we have options or that anyone of valid talent and ability would ever take a position with this franchise. Wade is about as good as we can do considering the tenuous situation here. Even if we were granted permission to interview a Fangio, it's very dubious to think he would make a lateral move to our horrible organization. Snyder still hasn't realized in all this time that people will move for gobs of money, but that it also poisons their desire to succeed. Bribery rarely creates motivation and is poisonous to integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 OMG, thanks Dan. You do realize we got the penalty we deserved and everyone in America that could defend us did. LOL. You are wrong. However this thread is not about the illegal and unethical cap crime committed against Dallas and Washington...which warranted a Federal investigation of serious anti-trust violations...so I will leave you with NFL ownership agreeing to collectively and individually violate the law does not make it any less illegal. Nobody wanted to mess with the gravy train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldSkinner Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This is rich. He should be interviewing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Huh, Scot McCloughan's name getting thrown into the mix as an executive. Does AJ have some competition? And if so what does that mean for Wade? AJ likes Wade, but McCloughan has a Seattle/San Fran background (though pre-Donatell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Wade is so good he's out of coaching One line quips are nice, but lack any substance to take seriously on their own Wade was on a team who cleared out the old regime after 2013. Which meant for him to reasonably get a job he'd need to likely get on with one of the 7 new coaches coming into 2014. 1. Lovie Smith - Runs a tampa 2. Not a fit 2. Mike Zimmer - Basically runs the defense himself, also runs a 4-3. Not a fit. 3. Ken Wisenhunt - Running a 3-4, so is a fit. However, went with his former DC that he was already familiar with and is also well regarded. 4. Jim Cardwell - Lions personnel was setup with a dominant 4-3 front, and that's what he went with. Not a fit. 5. Bill O'Brien - Took over the team that wanted a clean slate from the old regime. Not a fit 6. Mike Petine - Another DC turned HC. Runs a 3-4 but is known as someone whose pretty flexible with scheme. Hired a person off his former staff to be the DC. 7. Jay Gruden - The front office (potentially with Gruden wanting it, perhaps not) decided to keep Haslett. There was only 3 real places out of the 7 that would've potentially "fit" Wade Philips. Of those, all three guys basically took DC's that they were familiar with rather than looking for someone new to come in. Now, you could say that Wade not having an assistant job is indicative of a problem. However, that is losing context of where in life Wade Phillips is. He's not a guy just cutting his teeth without a huge track record, or someone who's been shown to be out of his depth at the "head" guy on a particular side of the ball. He's a mulitple time DC and HC who has had a number of top 8 defenses by both pertinent metrics and has improved numerous teams that he's taken over. There was little incentive for him, 25+ years into coaching, to take an assistant job instead of taking a year off. I don't know if you're trying to do your best impression of Randy Quaid in Major League II or if you've got a serious problem with Wade...but it'd be nice to know which one it is. If you're just in a "everything Redskins do is going to be bad" mode, then that's one thing. But your comments...such as this or claiming elsewhere fans just want him due ot the name...suggest you have an actual issue with WADE as a coach. Yet I've not seen you put forward any kind of actual argument for it other than substanceless quips. If I've missed said argument I'd be happy to be linked to it and give it a read. I might be wrong, but didn't Ware have his best years under Wade? I do remember you guys having one heck of a pass rush under him. Or am I recalling it incorrectly? You're not wrong. In the two years with Parcells his best was 11.5. His best since Wade was gone was 19.5. In his 6 years of playing without Philips, he averaged 11 sacks per year. In the 4 years with Wade his high was 20 sacks. His average over those four years were 15 sacks per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ZRagone, there are a few other posters I'd love to cut and paste your post to. I won't and can't name names, but while most of us on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most negative, are around a 7, some if these guys are at a 9.5. Everything doom and gloom no matter what. Nothing short of Dan selling the team will do for them. I used to be like that, not only in sports, but in every facet of my life. I hated living like that. I got help and while I still struggle with the negative vibes, I'm doing better to see the light at the end if the tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 There were players like Ware who had individual success (Ratliff, Spencer, Lee, etc.) but I don't recall the Cowboys ever having an elite defense during his time here. I'd say that the Cowboys never had an elite defense while he was there. Some good defenses depending how you want to measure, but not elite. (Then again, who's arguing Wade is "elite"?) 2007 - 9th yards / 13th points 2008 - 8th yards / 20th points 2009 - 24th yards / 2nd points 2010 - 23rd yards / 31 points As a note, 2006...the year before he came...13th in yards / 20th in points. However, it can be said that at least one year in the past 10 Wade had what could be considered an "elite" defense'. The 2011 Texans were 2nd in yards / 4th in Points. This was coming off the season before when they were 30th in yards / 29th in points. He's had one or more years over the past 10 seasons he was in football where he had either a top 3 defense for YPG, PPG, or Sacks. I ran the numbers a few days ago for his teams rankings in YPG, PPG, Sacks, and Take Aways over the past 10 years of his coaching. What you basically find is he's on average running an above average defense. One that on average in the top half to 2/3rds of the league. His average defensive ranking in yards per game over his past 10 seasons was 11th. His average defensive ranking in points per game over his past 10 seasons was 13th. His average defensive ranking in take aways over his past 10 seasons was 14th. His average defensive ranking in sacks over his past 10 seasons was 10th. Is he some kind of defensive genius? No. But on average he puts together competent, above average, quality defenses. And, on top of that, he has a history of turning defenses around...at least initially. In 2003, prior to his arrival in San Diego, they were 27th in yards and 31st in points. In his first year with San Diego they improved to 18th in yards and 11th in points. In 2006, prior to his arrival in Dallas, they were 13th in yards and 20th in points. In his first year they improved to to 9th in yards and 13th in points. In 2010, prior to his arrival in Houston, they were 30th in yards and 29th in points. His first year they a top 5 defese in both categories, 2nd in yards and 4th in points. Dallas was 19th in sacks the year before he arrived, they were 3rd his first year. Houston was 23rd in sacks the year before he arrived, they were 6th his first year. He's not some kind of savior or franchise changing mind; but he's an absolute improvement over what we have and an excellent option given what's available and the situation the franchise and front office is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ZRagone, there are a few other posters I'd love to cut and paste your post to. I won't and can't name names, but while most of us on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most negative, are around a 7, some if these guys are at a 9.5. Everything doom and gloom no matter what. Nothing short of Dan selling the team will do for them. I used to be like that, not only in sports, but in every facet of my life. I hated living like that. I got help and while I still struggle with the negative vibes, I'm doing better to see the light at the end if the tunnel. I just think there's a big difference between realistic pessimism and pessimism for pessimisms sake. Yes, we have had a lot of things go poorly for us as a franchise over the past few decades. Yes, often times things don't work out for us. But it's absolutely possible to look at possibilities or actions in a realistic manner and reasonably point out to the POTENTIAL benefits without being a blind homer about it. Indeed, being a Major League Quaid isn't any better than being a Rose Glasses Homer...it's just the opposite side of the exact same coin. There's no difference between someone like Larry Michael where EVERYTHING is always somehow positive and being someone who see's everything in the most negative way possible. There's legitimate reasons to think Wade could be a good hire beyond his "name". There's legtimate reasons why he could be a good coach despite being "out of football" in the past year. While it's perfectly justified to question, complain, worry, or be negative towards the hire because of his ties to people in the franchise and the seeming negative atmosphere of cronism we have here it's not justified to simply ignore all other legitimate factors that may speak positively to the hire. At least with Homers there's positive feelings associated with it. At least when you read a homer you at least get that little second-hand whiff of hope and excitement. With the other side all you're left with is frustration and annoyance. There's a number of reasons why the Wade higher may not be good. Since some just want to quip sarcatsic rather than providing hard evidence, let me play devil's adocate. While he's shown well in year one the past few stops he's had, he's also shown a steady decline over the course of his tenure typically. His seeming laid back personality may be a problem with a team that has some questionable discipline issues. His age and his year in retirement has the potential to lead him to not throw himself into the job like he has in the past. And yes, the cronyism issue is still there with his ties to AJ Smith, along with his son on the staff. There are some legit concerns with a Wade higher (and while playing devil's advocate up there, most of those concerns do have reasonable rebutals). At this point there's no one the Redskins are likely to hire that won't have some legit concerns. But for me personally there's enough potential positives in his history, enough of a personnel fit for his scheme, and enough of a need for this franchise to go for a "safe" pick like Wade as opposed to an unproven guy who has their own laundry list of potential legit concerns as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So, what day is the interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Outstanding work, ZRagone! Appreciate the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgm110 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Pure speculation on my part but: I honestly think Raheem already has the job of DC and they are doing interviews to save face and show "due diligence" Raheem is part of the TB network, and if/when Gruden is fired after 2015 (assuming another disastser) Raheem would be a cheap "logical" (at least to Bruce and Dan) bump to HC (has HC experience and familiar with the team etc) while paying out the last 3 years of Gruden's deal Hope I'm wrong because this would be a nightmare IMHO (Raheem should have been fire with Haslett as should OL coach Chris Forester) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFanInSanAntonio Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I hope the Redskins are hiring him based on his dancing abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Like Wade's talent as a coach, he's kind of a Norv Turner of DC's, but I really am tired of Snyder's predilection for hiring retreads, or "names". He never, ever seems to hire young candidates with great references, and as history has shown, the best bets are always these guys. The '70's was owned by Landry and Noll, the 80's were owned by Walsh, Gibbs and Parcells, the '90's were owned by Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, and Shanny, the aughts+ have been owned by Bellichek, Cowher-Tomlin, Coughlin, and the Harbaugh's, every generation the page is turned. If you try to go back and get another drink from stale water, you never seem to get anything more than middling results. We need to find the next Bellichek, Harbaugh, whomever. Just hiring from the merry go round of retreads isn't getting us anywhere. I like Wade as a stop gap, but I'd still prefer a younger option with great references and a great track record, just as I want young guys in the F.O., and not these old tired yes men dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Pure speculation on my part but: I honestly think Raheem already has the job of DC and they are doing interviews to save face and show "due diligence" Raheem is part of the TB network, and if/when Gruden is fired after 2015 (assuming another disastser) Raheem would be a cheap "logical" (at least to Bruce and Dan) bump to HC (has HC experience and familiar with the team etc) while paying out the last 3 years of Gruden's deal Hope I'm wrong because this would be a nightmare IMHO (Raheem should have been fire with Haslett as should OL coach Chris Forester) If this were to happen I'm done caring about watching the Redskins on Sunday's. Raheem Morris has been in charge of only DB's and continues to field bottom of the pack pass defenses year after year. The fact that he didn't leave the building with Haslett or 5 minutes later is mind blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanoker Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Couldn't be worse than what we've had the past several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 OMG, thanks Dan. You do realize we got the penalty we deserved and everyone in America that could defend us did. LOL. I love the ignorance of the burgundy tribe. Please stop with the "holier than thou" crap. Just because someone disagrees with Chipwich does make them ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander -JB- Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 If we hire Wade Phillips as our DC, I believe this will be his 8th stop as a defensive coordinator. Talk about a retread lol Typical Skins move 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Please stop with the "holier than thou" crap. Just because someone disagrees with Chipwich does make them ignorant. Listen, Danny's lawyers didn't fight it, Jerry's lawyers didn't fight it, the majority of the NFL didn't fight it. It's not holier than though, it's stating reality, something which is hard for people to accept when it comes to this franchise. I actually was happy about the penalty because it meant Shanny couldn't waste even more of our money. Stop focusing on the negative. This teams front office has shown they don't know how to spend money. The league did us a favor. Wade Phillips will be our next d-coord. Raheem isn't welcome here by the fans. The FO knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Please stop with the "holier than thou" crap. Just because someone disagrees with Chipwich does make them ignorant. Does make them ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseNeckred Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Returning to the topic of Wade Phillips, I know he's usually blasted for his time as head coach of the Cowboys. But how many of you would kill for 13-3, 9-7, then 11-5? He was fired when going 1-6 in his 4th season. Even with the record in his 4th season, it's crazy he was fired. As a Skins fan, I was really happy when it happened. His worst full season record was 7-9 with Denver in 1994. More so returning to the original topic of the thread, I think it'd be great if he was our DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Listen, Danny's lawyers didn't fight it, Jerry's lawyers didn't fight it, the majority of the NFL didn't fight it. It's not holier than though, it's stating reality, something which is hard for people to accept when it comes to this franchise. I actually was happy about the penalty because it meant Shanny couldn't waste even more of our money. Stop focusing on the negative. This teams front office has shown they don't know how to spend money. The league did us a favor. Wade Phillips will be our next d-coord. Raheem isn't welcome here by the fans. The FO knows it. I think you have the cap penalty events a bit messed up... First off...the were several teams that got "in trouble". Only 2 got monetarily penalized to the extent that they did...the Redskins and the Cowboys. Who made the decision that those 2 teams should be punished? Just to give ha a hint, it wasn't the NFL. It was a group led by the Owner of the Giants. That's the problem. The NFL signed off on the deals, so they saw nothing wrong. Both the Redskins and the Cowboys were going to fight it, but then all of a sudden....decided to drop it for whatever reason. I don't know what happened behind closed doors, but what I do know is that if the Redskins and Cowboys sued the NFL for collusion then it would support the NFLPA claims, thus in the long run hurting the Redskins and Cowboys since they are a part of the NFL. It would have been cutting off your nose to spite your face. I think your hatred for the ownership of this franchise has twisted the reality of the situation. What the Redskins did was not against the rules. it was against what a few owners wanted...remember the wonderful term "spirit of the cap". Basically the Redskins just used the situation of the owners and players greed to help them reposition themselves....which as I stated before was NOT against any rules since there was no cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Like Wade's talent as a coach, he's kind of a Norv Turner of DC's, but I really am tired of Snyder's predilection for hiring retreads, or "names". He never, ever seems to hire young candidates with great references, and as history has shown, the best bets are always these guys. The '70's was owned by Landry and Noll, the 80's were owned by Walsh, Gibbs and Parcells, the '90's were owned by Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, and Shanny, the aughts+ have been owned by Bellichek, Cowher-Tomlin, Coughlin, and the Harbaugh's, every generation the page is turned. If you try to go back and get another drink from stale water, you never seem to get anything more than middling results. We need to find the next Bellichek, Harbaugh, whomever. Just hiring from the merry go round of retreads isn't getting us anywhere. I like Wade as a stop gap, but I'd still prefer a younger option with great references and a great track record, just as I want young guys in the F.O., and not these old tired yes men dinosaurs. Gruden is the HC, the question is who were the coordinators for these up and comers? I haven't looked for the answers, but those were all HC's. Some had experienced coordinators like Wade, I'm sure. No one seems to be celebrating the young HC after 4-12, but we already have the type you are asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I think your hatred for the ownership of this franchise has twisted the reality of the situation. What the Redskins did was not against the rules. it was against what a few owners wanted...remember the wonderful term "spirit of the cap". Basically the Redskins just used the situation of the owners and players greed to help them reposition themselves....which as I stated before was NOT against any rules since there was no cap. I understand all that. The old boys club were all in collusion against the players. The Redskins and Cowboys (and a couple other teams) tried to get over on their fellow owners who were trying to get over on the players union. BTW, a couple of judges already overruled the collusion complaint, another reinstated it. It's not all burgundy and gold, errr black and white. It's a bunch of arrogant narcissists owners of every NFL team operating under their shield of the antitrust exemption. Nobody was innocent. Back to Wade. Here is hoping he get's picked over Eric B and Raheem. I really think the whole defensive staff needs to be replaced. Need to get rid of all of the snitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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