NFL.com: Wade Phillips to interview for Redskins DC job (MET)

[skinsfansarge]

If after all these interviews could we possibly end up with Barry or Raheem? I sure hope not. Teddy doesn't seem like his the answer either,but I will take him over the other two.HTTR

[Wyvern]

Actually, I'm wondering if Wade gets interviewed for Denver's DC job. He worked very well with Kubiak in Houston.

And if you were Wade Philips and nearing the end of your NFL coaching -- would you want to work with the Skins defense, or with Denver's?

I think that is another factor in why it's taking so long to sign some of these highly regarded defensive coaches. The candidates probably can see that the Skins defensive roster is a bit 'shaky', that the overall coaching structure currently in place might be unstable, that the Skins offense isn't going to be helping out the Skins defense, and will to draft new personnel as well, and most of all .... on paper there are better situations open on other NFL franchises.

I suspect Dan Snyder will have to resort to some blockbuster contracts to overcome those factors -- making them an offer they can't refuse.

[justice98]

And if you were Wade Philips and nearing the end of your NFL coaching -- would you want to work with the Skins defense, or with Denver's?

 

 

I guess it depends, I get he's nearing the end of his coaching career, but you never know what a guy's motivations are.  For all we know, Wade could enjoy coaching up young players, building something up, etc.  Some guys actually enjoy that and enjoy a challenge. Presumably, over the next couple years, we'll see a clean slate and an influx of youth on defense that he can mold and coach up. 

 

Does he wanna walk into a ready made defense and just call some plays for a few years, or does he actually wanna do some coaching?  Who knows.

[gortiz]

i know, probably a better topic for last week ... 

 

too hard to say if we missed out by not signing Wade? I mean, what he's done in Denver has been remarkable.  Team was real good last year defensively, but good god, not this good. 

[SkinsGuy]

i know, probably a better topic for last week ... 

 

too hard to say if we missed out by not signing Wade? I mean, what he's done in Denver has been remarkable.  Team was real good last year defensively, but good god, not this good. 

 

 

Too early to say. On the surface, taking Phillips over Barry seems like a no-brainer. Phillips has a proven track record as a DC. While Barry was a gamble.

 

It is what it is now. I'm willing to be patient with Barry. We were singing his praises earlier in the season when the defense was playing well. Now, with accumulating injuries, the defense has regressed.

 

We'll see what happens.

[ZRagone]

i know, probably a better topic for last week ... 

 

too hard to say if we missed out by not signing Wade? I mean, what he's done in Denver has been remarkable.  Team was real good last year defensively, but good god, not this good.

I was a huge proponent of Wade coming here. I'd still have been happier with him coming here. But Its not something I'm massively regretting or feeling like we missed out.

Part of why I wanted him was because I believed his more aggressive, heavier 1 gap, 3-4 setup would be better for our personnel. Barry has brought that over. While that's not as good as necessarily having Wade, it still was a big part of WHY I wanted Wade.

I think ultimately, the direction both teams went was probably the wiser long term. I don't know how much longer Wade is going to be a top tier defensive coordinator. Him being on a team with some stud defensive talent is probably helping him look better than he is, but is also the perfect spot for him. Especially with Ware there. On the flip side, I don't mind the fact we got a younger hungry guy that hopefully can grow into this role well as Gruden grows into his HC role over the next few years.

So yeah...I still wish we went with Wade, but I'm not horribly bothered that we didn't and the success of the Broncos doesn't really change my thoughts on that.

[TheItalianStallion]

He has been very good there, but his units have tended to start strong and fizzle out over time. Perfect for Denver, who is in win-now mode, but not so good for us if past history were to continue here.

[Renegade7]

i know, probably a better topic for last week ...

too hard to say if we missed out by not signing Wade? I mean, what he's done in Denver has been remarkable. Team was real good last year defensively, but good god, not this good.

That's not fair. Not only do they have more talent on that side of the ball then we do, but they've also been able to stay way more healthy then we have.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Wade = known commodity

Dude we got = unknown commodity

 

I still think that they over-thought the decision.  I know they wanted a fiery guy, guy who brought energy, etc.  

 

But sometimes the best guy for the job is the guy who's standing right in front of you.

 

Here's my assertion: Regardless of injury, Wade would be able to scheme better than Barry.  Would it translate to more wins?  Who knows.  

 

But Wade is a pretty damn good DC, always has been, and there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been here.  

[clskinsfan]

I know a lot of you guys dont like the idea. But I wanted Phillips as a HC. He has a 82-64 career record. So its not as bad as some of you make it out to be. I am/was sick of offensive head coaches. They have done nothing here. It really doesnt matter at this point I guess.

[TSO]

I think some of us here could coach the personnel Denver has on D to elite levels. And I don't think any of us really knows **** compared to these pros, lol. They were excellent last year without him and only added more solid pieces.

He was smart to ask for a ridiculous ****load of money here (iirc) and instead chose to go to the Broncos, reuniting with Kubiak. Gets to have his reputation solidified while everyone forgets how poorly his tenure with the Texans ended.

Good coach, elite personnel.

[arftech]

We have who we have and by the way they (Denver) have elite talent at several positions on defense that we don't have.  So, having Wade here probably would not have made that big of a difference.

 

HTTR!

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

We have who we have and by the way they (Denver) have elite talent at several positions on defense that we don't have.  So, having Wade here probably would not have made that big of a difference.

 

HTTR!

 

That's an understatement.  Denver's defensive talent is ridiculous.  Their pass defense is like record breaking freaking "I don't believe that's possible" levels of good.

[Skinsinparadise]

He was smart to ask for a ridiculous ****load of money here (iirc) and instead chose to go to the Broncos, reuniting with Kubiak. Gets to have his reputation solidified while everyone forgets how poorly his tenure with the Texans ended.

Good coach, elite personnel.

 

A few people have said, more recently (yesterday) it was Mike Jones on 106.7 that it wasn't Wade choosing to go elsewhere.  He had an interest in coaching here with his son.  It was Jay simply preferring Joe Barry for his youth, fire, and energy -- he thought he'd be better with the younger players.  Jones said yesterday they were unimpressed with Wade's interview.  I am on neutral with Barry.  In one sense, he has had injuries to deal with and talent deficits. On the other hand even Haslett's arguably even greater talent depleted teams were ok in stopping the run.  So hopefully, Barry eventually can fix this.

 

My wonder on the defense is did the Shannny specter make a lasting impact on this year's defense.  Papa Shanny in an interview said he's been studying the Redskins very closely this year.  He was at Atlanta's pregame practices on Friday.  Kyle obviously knows offense himself.  According to Cooley the Falcons spotted a weakness in the run defense with the run off of the edges.  And I recall Cooley in that film study was worried if the Redskins could actually fix that.  It was about the interior defenders especially Knighton not moving well laterally.  And others have observed that the edge rushers often stunt or crash inside -- leaving a nice gap.  Cooley further added last week that Trent Robinson takes poor angles as a tackler.  And he's been on Perry Riley as being borderline disaster at MLB.  So it sounds like a perfect storm.  Is that Barry's fault?  Don't know.  Some of it clearly, isn't. 

 

Fletcher told some reporter (forgot whom maybe it was Paulsen) that what happened to all the good gang tackling from earlier this season, he's not seeing it now.

[DC9]

I'm glad that we have a coordinator who is experimenting with a lot of looks and who is keeping us in games.

 

He's got some stuff to sort out, especially in the run game, but for the most part he's doing an outstanding job with what we have.  I mean, we have a college WR playing CB against Mike Evans at the end there.  Wade Phillips doesn't fix that.

 

Hopefully we come back healthy against the Pats and are at least within a couple of scores at the end (I think that is realistic).

 

But the important thing is this staff is doing a MUCH better job syncapating all three phases to support one another, and we are running a one gap defense.

Good coach, elite personnel.

 

The key phrase in scrabble, there.

 

We'll get there.  But I enjoy being competative while we're on our way there.  And these coaches are giving us competative football right now.  That's a plus.  I've got little to complain about this season.

[bedlamVR]

The issues in the run game are kind of endemic with a one gap system. especially where the co-ordinator is being aggressive with the guys up front. It can lead to a lot of stuffed runs but relies on the guys to make tackles. And that has been the problem. I have seen Guys look like a matadors out there at times with guys running past him in the back field. 

 

The problem is amplified because Barry tends to drop guys back to cover for a depleated backfield so once the runner is through the line they have open ground to build up speed and make people miss.

 

And I totally get the concept. I think the ideas in the D are fine but we need better execution.

 

I am not going to pick any specific player out but I think we need to get stronger in the middle (down the spine) as people have been calling for, for some years now - and invest in the MLBs and SS in the coming offseason. Trenton Robinson is doing a good job in pass defence but is not an enforcer over the middle and brings little to the table against the run. Robinson needs to up his game and be more of a force but he is still finding his feet. I am not sure Will Compton is the answer and it is looking less and less like Riley is either.

 

My overall point is it is easy to covet thy neighbours oxen (so to speak) but if Barry was in Denver and Phillips was here I am not sure there would be a massive reversal of fortunes - I still think Denvers D would be stronger...

[TSO]

A few people have said, more recently (yesterday) it was Mike Jones on 106.7 that it wasn't Wade choosing to go elsewhere. He had an interest in coaching here with his son. It was Jay simply preferring Joe Barry for his youth, fire, and energy -- he thought he'd be better with the younger players. Jones said yesterday they were unimpressed with Wade's interview. I am on neutral with Barry. In one sense, he has had injuries to deal with and talent deficits. On the other hand even Haslett's arguably even greater talent depleted teams were ok in stopping the run. So hopefully, Barry eventually can fix this.

I'm sure he had an "interest", which is why he interviewed... But I believe a part of the reason the interview didn't go so well is basically because he wanted to get paid while indicating he wasn't in it for the long term. There were questions of his willingness to coach after a year or two.

I always got the sense, at the time, that he basically told them "pay me big time just for this year, after that we'll see". But that was from the nuggets being dropped here and there. Maybe they should have, but I like the desire to not to be the ones pretty much begging for someone to come here and instead get the guy really wanting the job.

As an aside, look at the All-World Vic Fangio who we all wanted to come here so desperately. How's that vaunted Bears D and did he suddenly become an average to below average D Coordinator after having elite ones throughout his tenure with the 49ers? They're doing good in passing yards, but outside of that not very good.

Like DC9 said above, I don't think Wade does well here with our secondary, either. Maybe he does a slightly better job keeping our front seven going in terms of pass rush, but I'm not sure he's able to mask some of our edge-contain deficiencies with Trenton Robinson and Perry Riley in there.

[DC9]

The issues in the run game are kind of endemic with a one gap system. especially where the co-ordinator is being aggressive with the guys up front. It can lead to a lot of stuffed runs but relies on the guys to make tackles. And that has been the problem. I have seen Guys look like a matadors out there at times with guys running past him in the back field.

 

Definitely need to tidy up the outside gaps, that's where most of the damage is being done.  Not having a safety, as you later mentioned, is a huge loss here.

 

Ihenacho was getting there early in the season and in the preseason, Robinson not so much.

[pjfootballer]

Funny that Shanahan can sit back a a third party observer and see what is wrong, but the asshole couldn't see that when he was here and it was right in front of him.

[Peregrine]

As an aside, look at the All-World Vic Fangio who we all wanted to come here so desperately. How's that vaunted Bears D and did he suddenly become an average to below average D Coordinator after having elite ones throughout his tenure with the 49ers? They're doing good in passing yards, but outside of that not very good.

 

I think thats unfair to Fangio.  That Bears defense is worlds better than it was the last 2 years.  Expecting it to go from 31st in the league(31st in points, 30th in  yards) 2 years in a row to top 10 is incredibly unrealistic.  Meanwhile, they are 8th in yards allowed, and if you take out the points given up by the offense and special teams on pick 6's and return TDs(Which is a lot), they are 18th in the league in points.  Even brushing aside the fact that you cant judge someones success in their first year, I dont see how massively improving a terrible defense is "below average".

[Skinsinparadise]

The issues in the run game are kind of endemic with a one gap system. especially where the co-ordinator is being aggressive with the guys up front. It can lead to a lot of stuffed runs but relies on the guys to make tackles. And that has been the problem. I have seen Guys look like a matadors out there at times with guys running past him in the back field. 

 

 

 

Part of the idea with the one gap of course is in theory it allows the D lineman to get upfield and bring pressure.  The pressure for the most part isn't coming, though.  Hence the perfect storm.  They can't stop the run.  And, they can't pressure the QB.   Although, Chris Baker is emerging this season.  I'd assume Hatcher is gone next season.    Hopefully with Galette next year -- and perhaps a new nose tackle-one more interior guy -- he can make it all work.

 

According to football outsiders based on their measurables -- its the 22nd ranked defense.   I haven't studied the ranking of each offense and defense we've faced -- it seems to me though that we have faced tougher defenses than offenses.  Eagles, Tampa, Dolphins, Jets, Rams -- don't seem to be anything special offensively.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef 

 

As for Barry, IMO I see nothing that clearly points to he's an above average defensive coordinator or for that matter a below-average one. I'd give him an incomplete based on what he's playing with as opposed to a high grade or a low one -- I don't see how there is evidence that he has the defense either overachieving so far or underachieving.

 

I'll wait to see what he can do with the full complement of Culliver, Hall, Breeland.   

[Skinsinparadise]

I'm sure he had an "interest", which is why he interviewed... But I believe a part of the reason the interview didn't go so well is basically because he wanted to get paid while indicating he wasn't in it for the long term. There were questions of his willingness to coach after a year or two.

I always got the sense, at the time, that he basically told them "pay me big time just for this year, after that we'll see". But that was from the nuggets being dropped here and there. Maybe they should have, but I like the desire to not to be the ones pretty much begging for someone to come here and instead get the guy really wanting the job.

 

 

Ok.  I just got a little different sense from bits and pieces. It's not that far apart -- the age part was a key factor but with a different twist -- with more of a pro-Barry angle.  From the pieces I read-heard from reporters, Jay genuinely liked Barry and his youth was part of it.  Barry's interview was supposedly off the charts with Jay where they talked football for hours. It is possible that if Phillips was 10 years younger, he'd have gotten the job but he isn't.   Jay himself has said he liked Barry's energy, enthusiasm and thought he'd be a good teacher who would grow with the younger players.  At 68, even if Phillips said he's in it for the long haul, its tough to assume at that age he'd be in it for the long haul.

 

Maybe Jay really liked Phillips better but was put off by his money demands and lack of long-term commitment.  But I'd gather, money wouldn't be a factor.  Danny is willing to pay hefty prices for assistant coaches, including recently for Callahan. As for the longevity, I'd presume regardless of what Wade said on that front, it would be a question considering his age.  I guess we will never know?   But Jay's thought process of having a younger assistant coach to teach a young-rebuilding team -- seems logical.

 

I think the problem Jay had perception wise with some on this is he seemed to like Haz.  And Joe Barry like Haz has a past coaching relationship with Jay.  So is he putting the buddy system over competence?  Or that's at least how I recall the argument.  At this point, IMO that whole discussion is a moot point.  I said after the Barry hire, we now just need to see the movie to judge.    IMO watching the movie so far -- I don't think there is a definitive answer yet.   And as for Phillips, to your point, I agree if he ends up just coaching for a year or two in the end, it won't mean much to the future of a rebuilding team like this one.  Different drill for Denver.  

 

Edit:  sorry for the back to back posts.

[TSO]

I think thats unfair to Fangio. That Bears defense is worlds better than it was the last 2 years. Expecting it to go from 31st in the league(31st in points, 30th in yards) 2 years in a row to top 10 is incredibly unrealistic. Meanwhile, they are 8th in yards allowed, and if you take out the points given up by the offense and special teams on pick 6's and return TDs(Which is a lot), they are 18th in the league in points. Even brushing aside the fact that you cant judge someones success in their first year, I dont see how massively improving a terrible defense is "below average".

He's got them in the bottom third when it comes to points, ppg, rushing yards AND rpg.

I don't think I was being unfair at all, as I even mentioned that he's doing fine with the passing game.

And you completely missed my point. It was not to assess his coaching abilities, it was to point out how he went from coaching an elite defense in San Fran to a below average one in Chicago, and that's because of personnel. That's why I posed the rhetorical question of "did he suddenly become an average to below average D coordinator after having elite ones with San Fran". Again, within the context of the post (which was talking about Wade's success with Denver's personnel), it was about just how much personnel can affect a coach, negatively or positively. Unless you're arguing that point, your response wasn't relevant.    

Also, sorry, I don't just look at total yards and you can't take out those D/ST points unless you do so for everyone. I didn't expect anything from him, actually, and wasn't making some edict on his coaching abilities. Well, that's a lie, I did expect the Bears D, barring some incredible offseason of additions to personnel, would struggle and that it wouldn't be some conclusive proof on his coaching abilities. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Funny that Shanahan can sit back a a third party observer and see what is wrong, but the asshole couldn't see that when he was here and it was right in front of him.

 

The rap on Shanny on Denver after he was canned was that the dude really really got offense -- he was an offensive genius.  However, when you are running personnel and in charge of the whole team -- it can't be just be about that one thing.   So for me at least the idea that Shanny or Kyle could figure out kinks in the Redskins defense seems plausible.

 

Using Pro-Football Outsiders numbers the offense faced three of the top 10 defenses in the league.  Our defense faced four offenses that were in the bottom half of the league and only one in the top 10.   You weigh that with the fact the Redskins are third in the league in time of possession -- which makes it easier for the defense because they are rested and not on the field -- looking forward there is potentially more to be optimistic with the offense than there is the defense.  I guess we will see.   The optimism would be a healthier defense going forward should make an impact.

[Peregrine]

He's got them in the bottom third when it comes to points, ppg, rushing yards AND rpg.

I don't think I was being unfair at all, as I even mentioned that he's doing fine with the passing game.

And you completely missed my point. It was not to assess his coaching abilities, it was to point out how he went from coaching an elite defense in San Fran to a below average one in Chicago, and that's because of personnel.

Sorry, I don't just look at total yards and you can't take out those D/ST points unless you do so for everyone. I didn't expect anything from him, actually, and wasn't making some edict on his coaching abilities.

1. Yes you CAN take out those D/ST points because not everyone has them equally.  Look at our division, Eagles have had 7 non-defense points, Giants 14, Cowboys 14, meanwhile, the Bears have had 35.  Thats an over 3 ppg difference.  To say that you cant judge a defense differently because their offense and special teams happen to be SO bad they allow an inordinate amount of points, is kind of crazy.

2.  On the above point, on one hand you dismiss stats such as PPG and YPG as being too broad and not specific enough, and say "Sorry, I dont just look at total yards", and then you contradict yourself with #1 when it helps your argument, you dismiss specific stats in favor of the broad.

3. I noticed you argue against Fangio being a good coach based on "rpg"?  Im not even sure what that is.  If its rushes per game, despite how pointless of a stat that is to determine a defenses worth, thats not true that they are in the bottom third.

4. You say that you werent assessing his coaching abilities, but then you say that you were trying to point out how he wasnt as good of a coach as people thought because of personnel.  That would be called assessing his coaching abilities.  You stated "How's that vaunted Bears D and did he suddenly become an average to below average D Coordinator after having elite ones throughout his tenure with the 49ers?" which again, would be assessing his coaching ability.