Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[Bubble Screen]

I'm telling you, fans are going to rue the day if we let Griffin get out of DC. I have a feeling it's going to be reminiscent of Tampa giving up on Steve young. He's going to be great and I pray we don't give up on him and it happens here.

I don't think we will rue the day at all. You simply can't give a big contract to a guy that can't stay on the field. Plus, his play isn't worthy of one.

[Taylor703]

I don't think we will rue the day at all. You simply can't give a big contract to a guy that can't stay on the field. Plus, his play isn't worthy of one.

We don't have to give him a contract for two more years. That's more than enough time to know what he's going to end up being as a pro. Sometimes I think you act purposely obtuse just to rile people up....

[TSO]

Today Kirk showed a lot of the good things he's always shown, it's that simple. There's no reason to downplay it like so many always have around here. Getting rid of the ball quickly and being decisive, going through progressions consistently and correctly, finding spots in the pocket to buy time, etc... he's done that as a young QB from the start and it's why he's impressed every coach that's been here.

 

As far as I'm concerned, all Cousins has done is look good during games that count and look like the rest of the team in games that didn't (good, decent, awful). He's a young QB and may not be able to carry the team himself, but he doesn't seem like a liability and I believe he can grow into a QB that eventually CAN carry a team. No reason to think otherwise right now, though that may change.    

 

It still stings because Robert looked like he was going to explode today and we really needed that as an organization. I do believe Robert is the better option for us in terms of elevating the team if he develops to his potential, but he can't do it injured and his style of play tends to lead to it. I feel so bad because he really has given his body to this team and we should all be extremely appreciative of that, but it was and still is a problem. 

 

I swear, there were times today where I kept tearing up (during the game and after) thinking about what happened to Robert. It really is scary how, whenever we have any momentum, something terrible happens. It would be so nice if, somehow and someway, this ends up being a blessing and we're able to start succeeding as a franchise with consistency. No matter who it is at QB. I was really impressed with the way the team came out today because, for me, I really wanted to see how Gruden handled a loss. This was a great sign that he not only knows what needs correcting, but actually CAN correct it. I just pray to God this isn't a mirage and it's real.           

[Taylor703]

The reality is we don't have to move on from either for at least another season. Neither of them are costing us a fortune to keep and we can always pick up griffins fifth-year option which isn't even that big of a cap burden. We don't need to freak out and act like it's the end. Let Kirk play and if he plays great than that's awesome. RGIII gets his chance to play next year because honestly I don't think Gruden would do him like that but that's just me. Griffin will finally get a chance to fully heal and we will all finally get a chance to see what Kirk can do. It's okay to cheer for both and I think both could have successful careers.

[MartinC]

Well....I just found this:

I wish you hadn't!

On the topic of this thread Kirk had a really good game yesterday and you have to credit him being ready to come in and perform when you know he has had very little work since preseason. I think we have to expect the worst in terms of news on RGIII - the way his ankle went over he will be lucky if there is no fracture and therefore surgery which would mean IR.

One way or another though we are going to find out about Cousins.

My personal view is I like Cousins, I think he has a good (but not great) arm, good (but not great) mobility. Physically then you may guess I think he is a good but not great QB. But a LOT of really great QBs have had marginal physical skills. He has the physical tools to be an NFL QB and run this offense at a high level IF he can stay away from bad decisions and turnovers. That's my worry about Kirk - he sometimes overrates his arm and try's to force things he would be better turning down.

He's our starter now though for the foreseeable and I hope we all get behind him. There will be defenses ahead who are not quite as accommodating as the Jags were yesterday and he will have rough games (all QBs do) lets not jump all over him when that happens.

I hope he balls out and gives us a really hard decision.

[Newera]

Kirk Cousins.  Trent Green Deuce.

[MartinC]

Kirk Cousins.  Trent Green Deuce.

In this scenario lets hope he is Kurt Warner ...

[Bubble Screen]

We don't have to give him a contract for two more years. That's more than enough time to know what he's going to end up being as a pro. Sometimes I think you act purposely obtuse just to rile people up....

And you would be wrong.

I say what I'm thinking. It's called being honest. It's just not working out for him here.

[Thinking Skins]

Well....I just found this:

 

 

I see that and it looks gruesome, but we all remember some of the other hits that RG3 has taken and it looked a lot worse than it actually was. I'm still hoping that this one comes out better than it looks.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Sure smells like Bledsoe-Brady situation here. Second game - QB gets hurt and is replaced by an All-Pro type QB named Brady.

 

Can this really happen to the Redskins? Sure makes your mouth water a little. No?

Bledsoe was much further along in his career. And Brady has more physical tools than Cousins.

 

That said, if Cousins proves to be the second coming of Brady, I can live with that. 

 

But we have a ways to go before that is a thing. 

[LetThePointsSoar]

From what I'm hearing expect Griff to be out for the year.

I don't see how he can't be out for at least the year. I dislocated my ankle years ago and was on crutches for 6 months. A dislocated ankle is no joke, it sucks.

Time to see what Kirk can truly do this year, I believe

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

 

But I gotta ask, only because I do not know the answer;  is Cousins familiar with Pistol and how is he/can he be running it?

 He has good pocket awareness, so that is a plus; I'm sure we don't want to see him running the ball and risking injury, but would the threat of him running lined up in that formation pose a threat to defenses?

 

 

Cousins is actually sneakily mobile, obviously not RGIII but you don't need GREAT speed to run the RO/Pistol, Nick Foles ran it a lot last year. He's actually a 4.7/4.8 guy which can defintely be a threat in the RO.

 

With that said, I think that we'd be foolish to not have RGIII as the incumbent starter next year. The Matt Stafford situation comes to mind as others have said, though Stafford's injuries weren't nearly as bad. But I think RGIII is more talented even if he never recovers his speed (better arm talent/deep accuracy/etc).

 

Also do you really want to be the next team that let the injured starter walk and have him tear it up smewhere else? I mean, while Rivers has defintely worked out for San Diego, he isn't Drew Brees.

[Bacon]

Cousins is more than capable of running our offense. It's just a matter of how he reacts to modifications to opposing defenses.

[Pedro]

IMO the one thing Cousins does better is climb the pocket.  It allows plays to develop that bit more than generally happens with Griffin.  Problem is Cousins is then likely to launch a ball into double or triple coverage, which happened multiple times yesterday but we got away with it.

 

Good thing is that like most things it is a correctable flaw, though it being a mind set thing doesn't always happen (see Sexy Rex).  If it is cured and we win at least 10 games this season (like 2012 but with a much better roster today) then we have a QB controversy.

[Thinking Skins]

In my mind, I think Robert doesn't play for the remainder of this season, which has my mind on next season and off-season.

 

Like GHH first said above, we will now definitively answer the KC question.

 

I think the next Q we will bicker about then is who gets the 2nd contract, and who does not. Both guys enter the final years of their rookie deals next year, but I believe Robert has a team-option for a 5th year since he was a 1st rounder.

 

As an ardent RG3 fan I will not be a Landon Donovan and root for a Cousins mishap at any time. The division is there for the taking. Still, it's very sad to contemplate the real possibility that Robert just started his last game for the Redskins.

 

I think its a bit early for this talk, but lets go down the hypothetical train. I'd say that even if Cousins has the great year, that its not all over for Robert. First thing is that we definitely have him next year. No team is likely to want to trade for him due to his injury history. So supposing we go into next year with a KC / Robert battle, and say KC wins it. Then all that's happened is that the positions of the QBs have flipped, with KC now being the starter and Robert being a backup who could be a starter for a number of other teams in the league.

 

After year 4 (or 5), it becomes a question of who do we sign and who do we let go, but that may also depend on how much value they have. All players want to start, but there aren't many starting spots in this league. If KC / Robert aren't offered any starting spots, then it very well could turn out that they're both back here on moderate contracts (that is supposing KC comes back down to earth) and have us in a situation where we're in an actual QB controversy.

 

 

Yay?

[codeorama]

Unfortunately, it is "likely" that the team is going to lose 3 out of the next 4.  With Cousins or Griffin, doesn't matter. If they pull out a win over the Eagles, Seahawks or Arizona, that's going to look really good for Cousins.  Reality is they go 1-3 with a win over Giants and people will be wishing Griffin was back.  

 

The QB's in the NFL usually get way too much credit or way too much blame.  There are certain circumstances where they deserve it, but football is the ultimate team sport.  Cousins is either going to get too much credit or too much blame one way or the other.

[Thinking Skins]

It's just so frustrating to watch a guy consistently get injured like this. You can't keep waiting around for a guy to rehab an injury and come back to save the team. It isn't fair to the other guys on the team. I hope we move on from him because I don't see him lasting much longer in the NFL. So sad to say, but it's beginning to look like the harsh reality of "that athletic Heisman guy from Baylor who kept getting hurt and was picked after Andrew Luck" being RG3's legacy as an NFL player.

 

Eventually you just have to move on. If Kirk stinks though, then this is all moot. But these kinds of questions and discussions have to be brought up.

I don't think this is fair to Robert. You have other QBs who are injured a lot or at least were early in their careers. Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rogers come to mind. With Stafford, it was a constant thing of him showing promise and that he had the "tools", but couldn't stay healthy. Instead of Cousins they had a bunch of Johnnie Nobodies, so that may have been a part of it, but since then Stafford hasn't really been hurt and he has revamped the Lions offense.

Rodgers is a different story because he has a ring, but I think he missed significant time the past two seasons, but he's not called "injury prone". From everything I've heard this injury (no matter how serious) is totally un-related to all the other injuries of RG3, and was more of a freak accident than a ticking timebomb, and that RG3 should be able to return to his former self.

If we have a winning record and are in a playoff chase, would we go back to the guy who is coming off an injury, or stick with the hot hand? If Cousins blows his chance, there is no question which way we should go here, but if he's been orchestrating some wins and putting up good numbers I don't think we'll be able to justify letting RG3 back on the field. This will be the Sonny vs. Billy crap all over again. If we make it to the superbowl like we did back then, I doubt we'll really care.

I don't think it should be based solely on the "winning record" argument. Last year Cutler missed significant time and got his starting job back because the team had faith in him as their signal caller and knew he was the guy.

It should also depend on if we're winning games because of Cousins, or in spite of Cousins. Like if we're getting a defensive performance like yesterday every week and Cousins is putting up typical "backup QB thrust into starting QB" numbers, then I think we'd be more willing to go back to RG3. if he is indeed the hot hand though, then you've got to ride the hot hand.

[skins island connection]

Cousins is actually sneakily mobile, obviously not RGIII but you don't need GREAT speed to run the RO/Pistol, Nick Foles ran it a lot last year. He's actually a 4.7/4.8 guy which can defintely be a threat in the RO.

 

With that said, I think that we'd be foolish to not have RGIII as the incumbent starter next year. The Matt Stafford situation comes to mind as others have said, though Stafford's injuries weren't nearly as bad. But I think RGIII is more talented even if he never recovers his speed (better arm talent/deep accuracy/etc).

 

Also do you really want to be the next team that let the injured starter walk and have him tear it up smewhere else? I mean, while Rivers has defintely worked out for San Diego, he isn't Drew Brees.

 

 Well, actually, no.

If Cousins plays badly this year, then there is no question, but why don't we give Cousins a chance to grow in the offense just like everyone was saying about Griffin? I can guarantee, the first game where Cousins plays poorly, the hate will be back on ES, and its simply not fair to Cousins or fans of the team.

If Cousins plays good, then there should be an absolute fair competition for the starting QB position next year; its not about Griffin, its about the team, and who gives the team the best chance to win.

If its Griffin, i'll back him 100%;

if its Cousins, i'll back him 100%.

But to say the job belongs to Griffin no longer holds water, as his injuries seem to be happening frequently.

 I wonder where misterim and darrellgreenie are at? Haven't seen them lately, hope they're ok.

[RandyHolt]

Obvious sarcasm was sarcasm.

Your obvious sarcasm was obviously not obvious.  If you insist on doing it, simply tag it

 

/sarcasm

 

Sarcasm consistently fails the internet. Stick to straight talk. 

 

/no sarcasm

 

Back on topic, for all the debating, I think we will get our answer Kirk vs RG3. Everyone talks about their differences.  I think one similarity between the 2 QBs is, near the end of passing plays, Kirk also refuses to give up on plays. Kirk will gun it and risk an INT on a quick late read going for a kill shot. Robert takes off with his feet and tries that way.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Dude, those Stafford and Cutler comparisons are way off base.

Stafford isn't a mobile QB and didn't suffer lower body injuries.

Cutler has been the established starter in CHI for years and got them to an NFC title game. Of course he was gonna be back in as the starters

[skinsfan212689]

I've been one of the biggest supporters of RG3, through all the bad times and good times. I've been a diehard Redskins fan since I was 7 years old (23 years) and I have always supported them through the good and bad times (which have been mostly bad). I followed Griffin back in college his sophomore year at Baylor and immediately like him. When the Redskins drafted him I couldn't have been more happier as a Redskins fan, disregarding the Superbowl win and playoff appearances before. My favorite college player going to my favorite team.

 

However, first and foremost I'm a Redskins fan and I want what's best for the team. A dislocated ankle is going to sideline him for at least 2 months. We don't want to rush him back again for a 2nd time. If there was ever a time for Cousins to prove he belongs as a starter in this league, then it is NOW. I know some will say it was just the Jaguars, but you can't take away from his performance. I'm rooting for Cousins just as much as I would for RG3. These next few weeks will be very telling, but I fully believe he can lead us to a division title race. I'm not saying we will win the division, but I think we will definitely compete.

 

If Cousins can lead us to the playoffs or put up impressive numbers, then our front office will have some tough decisions to make going into next season. They are both under contract for another season but believe me they will not want the QB controversy going into next season. If Cousins plays well, then one of them will be let go or traded. That will ultimately be Allen and Snyder's decision. If all plays out to what us Redskins fans want to see this season, then I would not want to be in their shoes.

Well said. I'm in the same boat. I wish RG3 could have avoided injury but KC played really well and I enjoyed watching us win with ease yesterday.

 

I hope RG3 recovers and get back on the field but something is telling me Kirk will be our QB going forward. Which I'm fine with.

 

Just sucks cause I had high hopes for RG3. But lets make a run Kirk I will support this team 100%

[dballer]

I'm a Cousins fan, but he isn't more talented than Dalton. That's absurd.

 

Saying that is absurd is absurd.

[Burgold]

If you look at the raw numbers and if you look at it objectively.  RGIII's game against Houston and Cousin's game were pretty similar.  Both completed a very high number of passes and moved the team down the field effectively.  Difference was two-fold:  JJ Watt/greater pressure and stupid fumbles.

 

That said, Cousins looked great against what I was told all week was a pretty good defense.

[dballer]

Bledsoe was much further along in his career. And Brady has more physical tools than Cousins.

 

That said, if Cousins proves to be the second coming of Brady, I can live with that. 

 

But we have a ways to go before that is a thing. 

 

More Physical tools? Not sure about that.

 

Mental tools, no question. Brady isn't exactly jumping off the page with any of his physical tools, hence why he was drafted so late. He isn't known for having an elite arm, he is less mobile than Cousins, similar size and build...His physical tools aren't exactly what make him great. 

[codeorama]

Dude, those Stafford and Cutler comparisons are way off base.

Stafford isn't a mobile QB and didn't suffer lower body injuries.

Cutler has been the established starter in CHI for years and got them to an NFC title game. Of course he was gonna be back in as the starters

 

 

Exactly right. Griffin's success depends on his legs. If he has no mobility, he's done.

If you look at the raw numbers and if you look at it objectively.  RGIII's game against Houston and Cousin's game were pretty similar.  Both completed a very high number of passes and moved the team down the field effectively.  Difference was two-fold:  JJ Watt/greater pressure and stupid fumbles.

 

That said, Cousins looked great against what I was told all week was a pretty good defense.

 

 

I'll say this till I'm blue in the face, stats are misleading.  

You are correct in that it is apples and oranges, but, Griffin did not look good. I don't care what the stats were.  Vs. the Jags, the gameplan changed.  Griffin came out running. The pocket QB experiment looked to be over.  Then he got hurt which is why so many want him to be a pocket QB.