Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[UK Skins]

 Deleted due to tiny font problems :-(

[TheGreek1973]

The obvious question here is what happens if Cousins plays very well, gets us in the playoffs, maybe even the NFC championship.  Then say the Rams come calling with a two first round picks.  To we let go of him or we say no?

 

I know we are all saying well this was the Jaquars.  And I know in the next 4 weeks we will find out a lot about what we have in Cousins.  But we also know that RGIII has had now 3 major injuries that that left leg.  We are talking about "ceiling" etc but can we be sure that RGIII after the latest injury is still a 4.4 40 guy or more like 4.7 or 4.8 which will make him that much more ordinary.

 

Questions that our staff will need to answer before they comit to either QBs.

[SkinInsite]

Good thing we don't have to do anything until the end of 2015 season, if Gruden couldn't figure out who's better by then maybe QB is not the only problem.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

The obvious question here is what happens if Cousins plays very well, gets us in the playoffs, maybe even the NFC championship. Then say the Rams come calling with a two first round picks. To we let go of him or we say no?

I know we are all saying well this was the Jaquars. And I know in the next 4 weeks we will find out a lot about what we have in Cousins. But we also know that RGIII has had now 3 major injuries that that left leg. We are talking about "ceiling" etc but can we be sure that RGIII after the latest injury is still a 4.4 40 guy or more like 4.7 or 4.8 which will make him that much more ordinary.

Questions that our staff will need to answer before they comit to either QBs.

Dude if we make the NFC Title game, why the **** would we trade Kirk? Seriously

[TheGreek1973]

Dude if we make the NFC Title game, why the **** would we trade Kirk? Seriously

That is the question isn't it.  The Chargers didn't hesitate to pick Rivers did they.  They had invested a lot in him and went with it and they ddin't get two first round pikes either.

[jbird2]

I don't know that KC is the fiery leader. Yes, he looks decisive with the ball and makes up his mind and goes with it quickly, but he still looks unsure of himself from the leadership standpoint. maybe with a few weeks and some wins that will change, he will take the reins and run with it and make it HIS team.

 

It will be an interesting season, that's for sure.

I wonder what the reaction will be if he goes out next week and hangs 30+ on the fecals, throwing for another 250 and 2 td's.

Gruden's offense so far seems to be a good fit for him

 

Remember "this has been RG's team" for the entire time KC has been a pro.

 

He HAS to defer to RG cause he has been the "back-up" for 3 years. 

 

This team and FANBASE (you & me ) has to get away from "Well we spent 2 first rounders on X so he is better than Y" and start looking at who is on the field and supporting RESULTS not hype. And I am not saying that RG is or has been hype, I am saying, support your team regardless of who is starting when they are winning.

 

Up here in upstate NY we got to see Doug Flutie sit the bench and do nothing but win when he came in, but get relegated to the bench even during win streaks, because he was "too short to play the position"

 

Dont hate on KC because he isn't RGIII, hate on him when he throws 3 ints, and cant get us into position to score FG's against the fecals.

 

But until that happens, you gotta love the fact that we have a back-up QB that appears to be better than a lot of teams starter, and can come in and get a win.

[gibbsfan2018]

That guy is a true piece of ****.

Bizarrely happy? They won a ****ing football game, rather they completely dominated a ****ing football game in every aspect. They can't be happy about it?

I can't believe he has the balls to call himself a journalist.

They won by 30.  Coaches first NFL win. Ended 9 game lossing streak.  Whats to be happy about?

[WilberMarshall]

You look good when teams don't game plan for you.

 

Maybe I am in the minority but unless Kirk has dramatically improved from last season, I hope he will be better against teams who actually game plan for him.  

 

They have to run the ball a lot to help him win ball games.

[Bang]

To the "well this is only Jacksonville" mantra.

 

This is what you're supposed to do to bad teams when you're a good team.

You don't squeak by, you do't win in pedestrian fashion.

You don't play down to a bad team, you blow them out.

 

 

This game was never in question. 

There is no excuse or temper to be put on it by pointing out who the opponent is. If we won this game 17-14, then temper away.

 

But that result shows that the team was well prepared, well coached and more talented.

 

Don't take it and expect to blow out Philly. But when it comes to the Jags, that is what is expected, and that is what was delivered.

 

~Bang

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Posted this in the tweet thread:

Burgundy Blog @BurgundyBlog · 3h

Cousins may pan out but the optimism is mainly just…optimism. (c/o @HomerMcFanboy)

[Fat Stupid Loser]

To the "well this is only Jacksonville" mantra.

 

This is what you're supposed to do to bad teams when you're a good team.

You don't squeak by, you do't win in pedestrian fashion.

You don't play down to a bad team, you blow them out.

 

 

This game was never in question. 

There is no excuse or temper to be put on it by pointing out who the opponent is. If we won this game 17-14, then temper away.

 

But that result shows that the team was well prepared, well coached and more talented.

 

Don't take it and expect to blow out Philly. But when it comes to the Jags, that is what is expected, and that is what was delivered.

 

~Bang

Agreed. Philly has been a loss on my schedule since the schedule came out. Yesterday hasn't changed that.

[Partag]

Is it just me, or it feel that the entire offense just played better with Cousin than it ever did with RGIII? It feel like the guys have more confidence in KC or maybe he is indeed better suited for the kind of offense we are displaying this year.  I loved RG3, i still hope he will come back in full strengh, but i havent feel that good about our offense since...well a long, long time! Decisive passing, chains moving forward constently etc. Yet it was the Jag...but even so, when was the last time we split an opponent appart like that even thought they were suppose to be crap?

 

I'd say, let see. Let hope Griffin come back in is best shape while enjoying what KC can do. After that , if we have a QB controversy next off-season, let be confident in our coaching staff to handle it. Hail to the Redskins!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You look good when teams don't game plan for you.

 

Maybe I am in the minority but unless Kirk has dramatically improved from last season, I hope he will be better against teams who actually game plan for him.  

 

They have to run the ball a lot to help him win ball games.

 

I'm over reading these posts. The nice thing is that we don't need to speculate. Cousins didn't pinch hit for one game here. Griffin isn't going to be back for over a month or more so we'll have plenty of facts to help the coaches decide what to do when they have two healthy QBs to choose from. Often, these situations resolve themselves. 

[UK Skins]

Coming from a RG3 fan.  When he struggles - it was due to playing a tough defense.

When Cousins comes in and blows everyone away with a great performance - they were playing a lousy team.

 

 

^{I'm not picking on this post in particular but it saddens me that there are people out there that calls themselves "RG3 fans". I thought we were fans of the team? So if RG3 isn't playing are you going to go and cheer for someone else? (Again not bashing this post in particular, but it is the first time I have seen it actually written.)}

[Kindred]

We have 2 (and imo arguably 3) starting quality QBs.  Great teams dont have single point of failures - lose this person and the team fails.  Our QB situation is exactly where it should have been, and was.  I doubt we'll have the next Tom Brady, but I feel confident that KC can get the job done at a high level.   Injuries suck, but the one silver lining here is that we're stacked in the areas we've been getting these big injuries.

[MattFancy]

Thank you Chris Mottram: http://misterirrelevant.com/index.php/2014/09/15/redskins-jaguars-winners-losers-3/

 

Jay Gruden. He got his first win, his offense was obviously productive (although again, Jaguars), but UnWise Mike reported Monday that Gruden wanted Cousins to run his system all along. Which raises two concerns: 1) Why hire someone whose offense isn’t a fit for RGIII?; 2) Your offense needs some serious updating if you’d rather have Kirk Cousins run it than a healthy RGIII.

[Brokenstriker]

From UnWise Mike column this morning

 

"The dirty little secret in Ashburn is that Coach Jay Gruden actually thought Kirk Cousins was better suited to his offense, that Robert Griffin III wasn’t getting it and there was no way to delicately make a change at any point this season without causing major problems throughout the organization. "

 

This is the main problem with this Franchise. HC can't even put in the player he wants to. SMH.

that's not unique to this franchise ... top pick face of the franchise QBs (let alone the additional picks traded away) don't get benched ... they play until they are carted off.  You can't pin that on Snyder.  Like the price or not he went out and got the team a face of the franchise QB ... that's supposed to be a good thing (maybe not always worth the price ... that's a different debate) ... the baggage that comes with is when the franchise QB isn't playing at the level he ought to be ... the only way you can bench him ... really bench him ... as in for games vs. series ... usually requires your resignation letter (e.g., Shanahan & Griffin ... Griffin benched ... Shanahan dumped).

[Brokenstriker]

You look good when teams don't game plan for you.

 

Maybe I am in the minority but unless Kirk has dramatically improved from last season, I hope he will be better against teams who actually game plan for him.  

 

They have to run the ball a lot to help him win ball games.

considering and asserting that its a relative given that Griffin's runs would be few and far between (due to his desire to be a passer and not a runner, due to his difficulty avoiding big hits, due to the total absense of designed QB runs or read option in game 1) ... and considering that the line pass protection is limited which agruably reduces any sane reliance on a plethora of deep pass plays or slowly developing plays ... I'm not sure what the big difference would be from a DC perspective to prepare for Griffin vs. Cousins.   About the only thing I can think of is I wouldn't sell out to blitz packages because Cousins is more inclined to stay in whatever pocket remains and make a pass ... or to make a quick decision pass to a receiver to just 'away.'  Jax didn't sell out on the blitz so I don't think that mattered much in any case.  I didn't see a 'spy' on Griffin ...  Its not like Cousins can't run ... he did run the read option in the past and he did read QB run on occasion when he did ... its not like he's lame or something.  so basically I don't think the DC would have done much different.  What do you think they would do differently for Cousins than what he saw yesterday? 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I think most of us are a little high on Kirk Cousins coming off of his pinch-hit performance against Jacksonville. Maybe pump the brakes on that, though (via Bill Barnwell):

Of the 47 quarterbacks who threw 200 passes or more in the regular season and playoffs between 2012 and 2013, Cousins was 43rd in completion percentage and yards per attempt, 44th in passer rating, and 46th in interception rate. His rate numbers are an almost exact duplicate for Mark Sanchez’s final season as the starter in New York, when he completed 54.3 percent of his passes and averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. Cousins turns the ball over more frequently than Sanchez did that final year, and he didn’t even get attacked by any offensive linemen.

Mark Sanchez! That’s even worse than my go-to comp for Cousins, which is “poor man’s Andy Dalton.” It’s an even further cry from, say, young Matt Hasselbeck, which seems like the best-case scenario. I’m curious to get a gauge for what Redskins fans think, though …

http://misterirrelevant.com/index.php/2014/09/15/how-good-is-kirk-cousins/

[Brokenstriker]

Dear Curious ... Sample size matters.  You might have heard that before.  The info makes for a weak at best, inadvisable as more of a norm basis to make any conclusions about Cousins at this time.  Too few games, too few different defenses, too few days (good or bad), just plain too few.  Like other players just getting started its not wise to make conclusions based on a handful of situations.  Yes .. I saw the > 200 passes but that's not many games and the game situations are a signficant factor in what is happening.  So to get back to your question ... size matters.  If you think about that's why we talk about rookies in terms of their measurables ... and also why "good measurables" don't always equate to "good players."

Sure there's reasons to be caution and concerned.  If you looked at ~ 6 of Griffins game and not the others you could come to wildly different conclusions ... best ever or worst ever QB.  Better to look at the qualitative now and listen to what his coaches say, watch what they do ... they know more about him then anyone else.  He's on the roster ... he's generally acceptable,  He's the back-up ... he's probably capable ... the game plan doesn't go into DEFCON 4 mode ... he's probably not bad.  The coach and org aren't looking to trade for a veteran QB with the news that their starter is out for much/all of the season ... I'd say there's grounds for hope.

Sanchez had lots of opportunities, days, games, defenses, passes, etc.  The book on him is a much better indicator of what he can and can't do than the book on Cousins is at this point. Heck ... what would you have forcast for Aikman after his first season ... probably not multiple superbowls.

 

Quote

I think most of us are a little high on Kirk Cousins coming off of his pinch-hit performance against Jacksonville. Maybe pump the brakes on that, though (via Bill Barnwell):

Of the 47 quarterbacks who threw 200 passes or more in the regular season and playoffs between 2012 and 2013, Cousins was 43rd in completion percentage and yards per attempt, 44th in passer rating, and 46th in interception rate. His rate numbers are an almost exact duplicate for Mark Sanchez’s final season as the starter in New York, when he completed 54.3 percent of his passes and averaged 6.4 yards per attempt. Cousins turns the ball over more frequently than Sanchez did that final year, and he didn’t even get attacked by any offensive linemen.

Mark Sanchez! That’s even worse than my go-to comp for Cousins, which is “poor man’s Andy Dalton.” It’s an even further cry from, say, young Matt Hasselbeck, which seems like the best-case scenario. I’m curious to get a gauge for what Redskins fans think, though …

[abdcskins]

If Cousins plays well, I think we need to seriously think about trading RG3.  That's the first time I've ever said that.  But really if Cousins plays like he did yesterday against better teams, there is no reason we shouldn't commit to him.  Then trade RG3 while he has some semblance of value.  It already has plummeted a lot.

[Hail4Life]

I'm a Redskin fan above all my feelings for the Cousins RG3 issue.  I just want to win, although I'm a Griffin supporter, I will be happy with no matter who is leading the team as long as we continue to win games.  Either Cousins continues to succeed or his play declines and we go back to Robert when he is healthy.  If we are 7-1 and the half way point with Cousins and Griffin is ready to play then a difficult decision will have to be made but that will be a good problem to have imo.  I'm tired of being bummed out on Sunday's and yesterday being happy with the game was new and foreign to me.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

How well does Cousins throw the deep ball?...I've seen him connect on WRs who are wiiiide open downfield, but what if the WR onlly has a step or two on the CB? How well does Cousins connect on those throws? Anyone?

[UK Skins]

How well does Cousins throw the deep ball?...I've seen him connect on WRs who are wiiiide open downfield, but what if the WR onlly has a step or two on the CB? How well does Cousins connect on those throws? Anyone?

 

And your point is? You're bashing our new starting Quarter-back before he has even had a chance to start (this season anyway.) I take it you are another one of these "RG3 fans"?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

Dear Curious ... Sample size matters.  You might have heard that before.  The info makes for a weak at best, inadvisable as more of a norm basis to make any conclusions about Cousins at this time. 

 

I agree, which is why I'm not at all sure why anyone, anywhere, is reaching the conclusion that Cousins is better than RG3.

 

As for Aikman, his first 200+ throws all came during his rookie season. Contrary to conventional wisdom, if a QB's "200th"+ throw occurs during his 3rd year in the league it's most likely going to be far more successful than if it's during his 6th game of his rookie season. Cousins right now has the advantage of three offseasons under his belt that Aikman didn't have during his first 200+ throws. You can start to get a feel for the player after they've gone through 3 offseason programs and 3 offseasons worth of reps, practice, preseason games and film study. Right now, Cousins hasn't give any indication that he could turn into another Aikman, Brady, etc...I think, right now, giving him a ceiling of Dalton or Hasselbeck is pretty accurate.