Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[Thinking Skins]

Dude, those Stafford and Cutler comparisons are way off base.

Stafford isn't a mobile QB and didn't suffer lower body injuries.

Cutler has been the established starter in CHI for years and got them to an NFC title game. Of course he was gonna be back in as the starters

Dude, those Stafford and Cutler comparisons are way off base.

Stafford isn't a mobile QB and didn't suffer lower body injuries.

Cutler has been the established starter in CHI for years and got them to an NFC title game. Of course he was gonna be back in as the starters

Obviously no situation will be a perfect comparison because every situation is unique. But what do you perfer?

Pryor in Oakland last year?

Cutler in Chicago last year?

Rodgers in GB last year?

Bradford and whoever?

Vick and Foles last year?

Smith and Kaepernick in 2012?

Carson Palmer and Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2008?

Brady and Cassel in 2008?

McNabb and Kolb in 2009?

Kolb and Vick in 2010?

Grossman and Orton in 2005?

I can go on and on. These type of situations happen on and on in this league. And they're going to happen again. In each of these situations, both the backup (at the time) and the previous starter had shown potential and/or talent. That's the reason they had reached the position that they did. But There are only 3 possibilities in this:

- Both wind up being exceptional to great QBs (i.e. the Brees and Rivers type comparison)

- One winds up being starter quality and the other is a journeyman (obvious case is Brady and Cassel, but there are others like McNabb and Kolb or Palmer and Fitzpatrick)

- Both are journeymen (i.e. Grossman and Orton).

I'm not ready to give the keys to Cousins, but I'm not ready to write him off yet either. Like any player in this league he has tendencies and things that defenses will try to exploit, Hopefully he and Gruden can work on correcting those things and/or at least not making them too much of a problem with his growth.

And we'll see where we go from there.

[Gizmo 3squire]

Definitely anxious about Cousins and what he can do against tougher defenses. He played very well, however, it's the Jags. Not taking away what he did and how he managed the game. I'm not ready to give him that nod just yet. He needs to consistently get some W's under his belt first, which will apparently be the test this season because RG3 will likely be out this entire season, which may be better for him especially if we make the playoffs (which is still likely this season) I feel sick for RG3, such a freak injury.smh Hopefully him having some clipboard time will help somewhat. It sucks because it also somewhat stunts his development in the pocket even further w/ no gameplay.

[Mania]

I'm telling you, fans are going to rue the day if we let Griffin get out of DC. I have a feeling it's going to be reminiscent of Tampa giving up on Steve young. He's going to be great and I pray we don't give up on him and it happens here.

Wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

[Bat~man]

I'm a huge RG3 fan, I want nothing but the best for the kid. It was hard watching him get carted off, crying. I can't imagine how hard he has worked in his football career dating back to college. ACL torn twice and now this freak injury? It's just so "Redskin". We get a face of the franchise that everyone loves and roots for, who is also a class act, and he can't stay healthy? It's just so uuugggh. 

 

That said, Cousins looked good. Everyone loved him in the pre-season, which, I never once bought into due to ..well, it's the pre-season. He also looked terrible last year, and he played the Jags yesterday. The Jags stink...I want to see what this kid can do the next few weeks against real NFL teams. If he plays this way week in and week out, then it should be his job. 

[Mania]

I don't see how he can't be out for at least the year. I dislocated my ankle years ago and was on crutches for 6 months. A dislocated ankle is no joke, it sucks.

Time to see what Kirk can truly do this year, I believe

Most dislocations come with a fracture. If he doesn't have a fracture it would be a much shorter timeframe.

[Voice_of_Reason]

More Physical tools? Not sure about that.

 

Mental tools, no question. Brady isn't exactly jumping off the page with any of his physical tools, hence why he was drafted so late. He isn't known for having an elite arm, he is less mobile than Cousins, similar size and build...His physical tools aren't exactly what make him great. 

Brady's arm is highly under-rated. He can make all the throws.  He's also a little bigger than Cousins, I think.

 

You're right though, his physical tools are not what makes him great, but he's got a better arm than Cousins, I think, at the moment.  

 

The two guys with the best arm talent I've ever seen were Elway and Favre.  They could throw the ball through a brick wall.  

 

None of the top passers have those types of arms.  I think Rodgers would come closest.  

 

Cousins has enough arm to make most of the the throws.  

[Bang]

Go Kirk Cousins!

That's all I have to say.

To use an old phrase from a dead guy, "Just win, baby."

~Bang

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'll say this till I'm blue in the face, stats are misleading.  

You are correct in that it is apples and oranges, but, Griffin did not look good. I don't care what the stats were.  Vs. the Jags, the gameplan changed.  Griffin came out running. The pocket QB experiment looked to be over.  Then he got hurt which is why so many want him to be a pocket QB.  

The biggest difference between the Jags and the Texans is that the Jags do not employ JJ Watt.

 

On the 2nd and 3rd play of the game, Watt bulldozered both guards back 3-4 yards into the backfield within 1 second, blowing up the play.  One was a short pass, and Griffin got pressure in his face on a 3 step drop swing pass, and the other was a running play.  

 

That changed the gameplan from the very beginning.  The Texans were sitting back in a soft zone, and Griffin always had 22 eyes on him at all times.  There really wasn't a lot of room to run, and they just banked that their pass rush could get home, and if not, they'd come up and make the tackle.  And the 'Skins did exactly what they were supposed to do, until the point when they decided to load the gun, point it directly at their foot, fire, re-load, and then take off the other foot.  

 

I think that what will (maybe) become apparent to a lot of folks is that the Texans are probably a top 3 defense, and will probably go on to contend for the playoffs. They just dropped 30 on the Raiders.  The 2-14 last year was because they had awful QB play and, like the 'Skins, the wheels came off. 

[MartinC]

 The two guys with the best arm talent I've ever seen were Elway and Favre.  They could throw the ball through a brick wall.  

 

None of the top passers have those types of arms.  I think Rodgers would come closest.  

 

Matt Stafford - he has a cannon. Maybe not quite up with Elway but he can gun it with the best of them.

 

Of course having a really strong arm does not make you a great QB (Stafford for example is inconsistent with his mechanics and therefore his accuracy). Cousins can make all the throws he needs to in this offense provided he does over rate his arm and try to fit balls into small windows he really can't get it into. 

[martytheman]

Bledsoe was much further along in his career. And Brady has more physical tools than Cousins.

 

That said, if Cousins proves to be the second coming of Brady, I can live with that. 

 

But we have a ways to go before that is a thing. 

 

I was thinking about this yesterday, and while it would be nice, I don't think it's really likely. Brady didn't have more tools when he came in, he was a skinny guy from Michigan with an average arm. He's grown into a pro qb, but he wasn't anymore physically talented than KC is now. What he did have in spades was that entirely different mindset, that relentless drive to be the best ever.

I don't see KC having that killer "i'm the best" mentality that Brady or Warner had when they came along. Kirk is a nice guy and a good qb, but I don't think he will ever be one of those types of guys. It would be nice if he was though.

[skins island connection]

Obviously no situation will be a perfect comparison because every situation is unique. But what do you perfer?

Pryor in Oakland last year?

Cutler in Chicago last year?

Rodgers in GB last year?

Bradford and whoever?

Vick and Foles last year?

Smith and Kaepernick in 2012?

Carson Palmer and Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2008?

Brady and Cassel in 2008?

McNabb and Kolb in 2009?

Kolb and Vick in 2010?

Grossman and Orton in 2005?

I can go on and on. These type of situations happen on and on in this league. And they're going to happen again. In each of these situations, both the backup (at the time) and the previous starter had shown potential and/or talent. That's the reason they had reached the position that they did. But There are only 3 possibilities in this:

- Both wind up being exceptional to great QBs (i.e. the Brees and Rivers type comparison)

- One winds up being starter quality and the other is a journeyman (obvious case is Brady and Cassel, but there are others like McNabb and Kolb or Palmer and Fitzpatrick)

- Both are journeymen (i.e. Grossman and Orton).

I'm not ready to give the keys to Cousins, but I'm not ready to write him off yet either. Like any player in this league he has tendencies and things that defenses will try to exploit, Hopefully he and Gruden can work on correcting those things and/or at least not making them too much of a problem with his growth.

And we'll see where we go from there.

 

 Um, why would you even mention the idea of 'writing off Cousins' after a handful of games?

 

 You talk as if Cousins stunk up the joint and he made a bunch of mistakes.

 

 Right now, i'd give the keys to Cousins, and until he totals the car, he should be behind the steering wheel.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Your obvious sarcasm was obviously not obvious.  If you insist on doing it, simply tag it

 

/sarcasm

 

Sarcasm consistently fails the internet. Stick to straight talk. 

 

/no sarcasm

I dunno, there is some sarcasm that should be picked up.  When I commented that Mike Jones was reporting that (somebody, Hatcher maybe?) needed a full spine replacement, that's sarcasm that should be picked up.  And it STILL got somebody.

Matt Stafford - he has a cannon. Maybe not quite up with Elway but he can gun it with the best of them.

 

Of course having a really strong arm does not make you a great QB (Stafford for example is inconsistent with his mechanics and therefore his accuracy). Cousins can make all the throws he needs to in this offense provided he does over rate his arm and try to fit balls into small windows he really can't get it into. 

Stafford for sure.  I think when a healthy Cam Newton steps into a throw, it can leave a vapor trail. 

 

Rodgers also has a gun, though his gun will always be compared to Favre because they played for the same team, and he'll never win that comparison.  

[Bantu]

These next few weeks are going to be so eye-opening when it comes to this RGIII/KC8 situation. KC8 didn't impress late last season, but lets be real, that coaching staff & team was a sinking ship. This year will be a much better measure of Cousins' value.

[Voice_of_Reason]

 Um, why would you even mention the idea of 'writing off Cousins' after a handful of games?

 

 You talk as if Cousins stunk up the joint and he made a bunch of mistakes.

 

 Right now, i'd give the keys to Cousins, and until he totals the car, he should be behind the steering wheel.

I don't think anybody should be writing him off for anything, but he's got a lot of questions to answer.  The two best games he's played as a pro have been against a bad Cleveland Browns team in 2012 and a REALLY bad Jags team in 2014.

 

He could turn out to be Drew Brees.  Or he could turn out to be a flash in the pan.  Time will tell.  The story is nowhere near written.  

I was thinking about this yesterday, and while it would be nice, I don't think it's really likely. Brady didn't have more tools when he came in, he was a skinny guy from Michigan with an average arm. He's grown into a pro qb, but he wasn't anymore physically talented than KC is now. What he did have in spades was that entirely different mindset, that relentless drive to be the best ever.

I don't see KC having that killer "i'm the best" mentality that Brady or Warner had when they came along. Kirk is a nice guy and a good qb, but I don't think he will ever be one of those types of guys. It would be nice if he was though.

I dunno about that.  I think both of them came into the league with a chip on their shoulder.  Brady was a 6th round pick to a team with an established QB and Cousins was a 4th round pick to a team that had just traded a bunch of picks to get their #1 guy.

 

Everything I've heard from Kirk is that he's extremely driven, and wants to prove that he can play in the NFL.  

[Thinking Skins]

Um, why would you even mention the idea of 'writing off Cousins' after a handful of games?

 

 You talk as if Cousins stunk up the joint and he made a bunch of mistakes.

 

 Right now, i'd give the keys to Cousins, and until he totals the car, he should be behind the steering wheel.

its called analyzing the situation. I'm thinking about the state of my favorite franchise. If you don't like that I choose to look at both the positive and the negative possibilities, then you're under no obligations to read / respond to my posts.

[Alexa]

The most important thing is that we set ourselves to be in first place in the division after next week regardless of what Philly does tomorrow night. That is huge. 

 

There are things that RGIII is better at than Cousins. There are things that, at least right now, Cousins is better at than RGIII. Gruden has clearly shown in Cincinnati and now here that he can cater to different quarterbacks. Personally I think Cousins has at least as good a skill set as Dalton just a slightly weaker arm. I think catering to Cousins should actually be much more familiar to Jay Gruden and I would not be surprised to see this offense continue to roll. I think this year is going to be an exciting ride. Cousins' biggest problem is that he seems to throw a "wild pitch" every so often. I think he makes very good decisions and reads the defense/progresses through his reads very well. But sometimes he'll throw to the right receiver but just have a ball that is way off. He had a series like that today but fortunately the balls were nowhere near defenders. But he played extremely well today and hopefully he can keep that going. I'm pumped for next week.

I don't get the "weaker arm" comment. Kirk has a very strong arm. In fact, his ball speed was the 2nd hardest at the combine in 2012. He has a better arm than Dalton. Also every QB is going to have a bad series or two or three. Drew Brees yesterday had several. Brady threw for paltry yardage yesterday. It's part of being a NFL QB.

[gaskinsfan]

Other DC's will be able to game plan for him, so it will be a challenge. If he has learned to eliminate turnovers and make the plays that are there he will be fine. Gruden's offense is more geared toward a pocket QB, I hope with the work, coaching and game experience he will flourish. That combined with a solid running game and better defense/special teams will equal wins. Big game this Sunday, at Philly and then the Giants. We'll know much more about Cousins after these two starts.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

This is exactly what will happen, sort of....

 

 

Our schedule is as follows:

 

Eagles - W

Giants - W

Seahawks - L

Cardinals - L

Titans - W

Cowboys - W

Vikings - W

 

 

 

We'll go 5-2 over the next 7 games, ending up at 6-3 going into our bye week. I think we'll lose two during this stretch - the Cardinals L is because I couldn't decide where else to put it (my heart really has us going 6-1).

 

During this time, RGIII learn the ins and outs of the playbook. He'll be able to watch it in action for almost two months while recovering (it's going to be a 6-8 week deal). He'll come back after the bye week against Tampa and help to ignite the playoff push.

 

 

 

...oh yeah, we'll trade Cousins for a 1st and 3rd while eagerly awaiting the premier of "America's Game: 2014 Washington Redskins".

[Brokenstriker]

I think we'll be about as good as we could have been with Griffin over the next few games.  Beyond that?  I think I agree with something I heard Holden say on one of the post game shows.  Basically that the Skins have been put into a reset situation.  Best case for Cousins:  he shows that he's a quality starter but isn't going to morph into the type of QB you build your team around for the long haul.  Worst case for Cousins:  he shows everyone he's just a decent back-up without enough tools to be a starter.  Assuming Griffin returns (I assume he will) he's viewed as fragile.  None of these cases gives the organization or much of anyone else comfort and we see the Skins draft a top tier QB in next years draft.  Sucks on so many levels.  The heavy investment in a fragile QB lost, more seasons of "developing a QB," potential to see the org mortgage the future *again* for a QB, lost of draft options for other significant systemic roster weaknesses ... i.e. RT, RG, S, and potential to see the org bleed money on a backside of the hill FA RT.

[Gizmo 3squire]

If Cousins does develop and turns out to be on a Brady/Rodgers tip then I'm all in. I really like RG3 and think he's a great guy and a fantastic player. However, at the end of the day, I'm a Redskins fan, and whatever is best for the team then I'm all for it.

[dballer]

Brady's arm is highly under-rated. He can make all the throws.  He's also a little bigger than Cousins, I think.

 

You're right though, his physical tools are not what makes him great, but he's got a better arm than Cousins, I think, at the moment.  

 

The two guys with the best arm talent I've ever seen were Elway and Favre.  They could throw the ball through a brick wall.  

 

None of the top passers have those types of arms.  I think Rodgers would come closest.  

 

Cousins has enough arm to make most of the the throws.  

 

Yeh that is basically what I meant. As far as physical tools go, Brady isn't off the charts compared to Cousins. Not saying that Cousins is comparable to Brady as a QB, but physically he is.

 

And yeh, Cousins has an NFL arm.

 

I would definitely say Rodgers is up there with arm strength, not Elway or Favre, but they were on another level. Rodgers is exceptional in the fact that he doesnt seem to lose velocity when off balance or on the run.

[Soup's Uncle]

Cousins has weapons.  He has a running game and 2 great receivers (plus solid backup receivers).  If the defense/special teams holds up, then he should be at least solid.  He just needs to cut down on Sex Cannon-esque turnovers.  Protect that football.  Pound the rock with Morris, open up play action.  Play smart.  If he does that, we will win games.

[ldysknzfn1]

I enjoyed watching KC play that game yesterday...I also think RG would've had a great day as well had he not gotten hurt(ouch w/that ankle..I winced every time they showed that). Whether it was b/c the Jags are woesome or not..KC came in and did his job..did it very well and I hope he can continue to be just what the doctor ordered until such a time as RG can return to work. I support my TEAM not just 1 or 2 players...I hope all the players on the field do well every week. I also spread sunshine and joy where ever I may go..  

[SkinInsite]

I hope Cousins throws 5 TD against Philly just so we don't have to deal with all the Eagle trolls coming out of the wood works.

[Taco Bell]

The one thing that you notice with Cousins in, which is indirectly a good thing in the short term, is the rest of the team obviously gets more amped up when they know they are playing for "now" and not the "future."

 

Fans going through a development period is one thing, but I'm sure that when you are a member of a team and there is an "organizational plan" for developing a QB, you probably get 1-2% more frustrated having to play and put your health/body/etc. on the line, for a team you know in a "pure potential" perspective is holding itself back in the immediate week per week basis.

 

With cousins in, there is much less "what if" about winning and losing games in the present.  

 

So, all I'm saying is, at the expense of RG3's development, which is undoubtedly the most important position on a team, the rest of the team will probably be playing better now that they have their more "ready" qb playing.

 

Also, this isn't the case for all backups, this is our specific situation.  2 equally as young QBs where one has the "potential" and the other is more "game ready," but in reality, not just theory.  Also, the way the rest of the offense is built, having a QB that can do the basics with more consistency picks up those guys too since I'm sure they think the way fans think too... "we have so much talent we just need the ball in our hands" type of thing.

 

This is all just about the immediate play of teammates when that circumstance arises, of course.