Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[End2round2sanders]

 

Cousins played well.  My issue with Cousins has been his inconsistency and INTS.   I grant its a small sample size and he deserves a longer look for a better evaluation.   The dude was a 4th rounder for a reason, even the people hyped on him thought at best he was a late 2nd rounder -- QB's with elite skills sets generally aren't pegged as 2nd-3rd rounders.

 

And Tom Brady was a 7th rounder for a reason and Romo was and undrafted QB for a reason too (save the Romo Jokes you get my point)

[UK Skins]

My point is obvious, I would think.

 

Hitting DeSean Jackson 50+ yards dowfield ain't happening unless the QB can hit him when he has a few steps on the defender, because he's not going to be running wide open very often. Can Cousins do it? Or do you think asking that question of our starting QB is only deserving of an eyeroll?

My point is obvious and your constant harping about Cousins IS deserving of an eye-roll. He is the starting QB for a few months now (at least) and you whinging that he isn't Peyton Manning, or whichever perfect QB you think he should be, is completely pointless.

 

Redskin fans will get behind Cousins and hope he improves for Gruden's offence. RG3 fans will continue ****ing and moaning that Cousins isn't as good as him.

[Skins3000]

The Skins lost to the Rams on a boneheaded play by Morgan and to add to that a down right dismal defense that began to play better as the season went along. The Lions last year finished 7-9 but early in the season had a chance to run away with the division but faltered. Sometimes as fans we give this team way too much credit for being good. 

I don't like the poor opponent argument. How often have we played a poor opponent and played down to their level? The Rams game of 2012 comes to mind, or the Lions ending their winless streak against us, or the Lions finally winning in DC/Landover. Even last week agasinst Houston (who suddenly looks a little better putting up 30 today), we shot ourself in the foot with all the fumbles and the blocked punt and blocked XP. Today we didn't have those mistakes (still a few drops, a bad call on hte DJax noncatch, and way too many penalties). So I was impressed with Gruden's coaching today. If this is the type of coach he can be - getting guys to correct their mistakes - then I think he can be a really good coach.

Kirk is also a part of this. He didn't do what he was known for last year which was being a gunslinger. Today he was more patient and found the open guy. I like this Kirk. If this is Gruden's doing, then I'm all the more happier.

Here's hoping that Kirk can have a year similar to what Foles did last year when he replaced Vick.

RG3 does not fit this offense. He is not a pocket passer, might not ever be one. Cousin's is a pocket passer and therefore gives this team a better chance to win week in and week out in this system with this coach. 

 

    RG3 has more upside and seems to be more athletic, but they took that away putting him in this system. he obviously is not comfortable. With RG3 in, it will be a looonngg season.

So why did the Redskins hire Gruden if RG3 does not fit his system? I am starting to wonder again about our front office but I will give it a chance. 

[Alexa]

Getting a little tired of everyone saying Kirk stunk last year. He did a lot of food thing vs. Alt. and almost had 400 yards. Am I missing something here? Dallas was an average start. In both those games he gave us a chance to win but the defense was awful. I'm not going to put a ton of stock in that rainstorm against the Giants.

[mtruslow]

Everyone wants to say "Well, it's Jacksonville".  Here's the thing, the Jaguars are professionals, they get paychecks too.  They gave the Eagles a run for their money being ahead at halftime 17-0.  I wouldn't just discount Kirk's performance.  I think the Skins will play very well vs. the Eagles.  I see the Redskins winning vs. the Eagles and Giants.  The Cardinals might be another matter.  

[The Dude]

Cousins is better than Nick Foles, that's for sure.  We'll see the proof Sunday.

[Alexa]

Everyone wants to say "Well, it's Jacksonville".  Here's the thing, the Jaguars are professionals, they get paychecks too.  They gave the Eagles a run for their money being ahead at halftime 17-0.  I wouldn't just discount Kirk's performance.  I think the Skins will play very well vs. the Eagles.  I see the Redskins winning vs. the Eagles and Giants.  The Cardinals might be another matter.

Exactly, everyone is getting a check that puts on a uniform.

[ghosti]

Kirk Cousins has played VERY good as a starter against two VERY bad teams.  Other than that, he has been average against another bad Falcons team, and mediocre in his other starts.  The fact that he played great against bad teams isn't a knock on him, as that is what good QBs do to lesser teams, but it's not something to hang your hat on either.

 

Cousins just hasn't played at a CONSISTANT level where he can be completely trusted week in and week out.  That DOESN'T mean he can't become a reliable starter who can win games, but it does mean there will be ups and downs.  He still has room to grow.  I DO believe he can a will.  How high is his ceiling?  Who knows.  But this season will certainly tell us a lot.  He will have plenty of reps in practice with the first team and in games to learn and grow.

 

I look forward to have a lot of answers questioned about Cousins ability this season.

Well since most people thought we were going 5-11 to as high as 8-8 in win/loss, I’m looking forward to it as well.  I’m hoping Cousins can win us a few more games and possibly inch us towards the playoffs in a relatively weak division still.  Just keep in mind, Cousins by game count is still a rookie so inconsistency is guaranteed.  What we are looking for is improvement over time, which is what Griffin has not done with his pocket passing and what many people complain about game after game.  

[dballer]

My point is obvious, I would think.

 

Hitting DeSean Jackson 50+ yards dowfield ain't happening unless the QB can hit him when he has a few steps on the defender, because he's not going to be running wide open very often. Can Cousins do it? Or do you think asking that question of our starting QB is only deserving of an eyeroll?

 

the last two weren't deep balls, though. That's really the only thing I was wondering about. When I think of Cousins connecting on deep throws the WR is usually pretty wide open...mayyybe that pass to Hankerson against the Browns wasn't as wide open as the others, but does Cousins drop the pass "down the stovepipe" on WRs with a few steps on the nearest CB?

 

 

Man, I can't exactly remember the distance, I want to say it was 40 yards, may have been less, but he absolutely stove piped one to Garcon, with two defenders on him, that he didn't come down with. Third quarter I believe. I would have to see it again but I remember thinking, "wow that was an absolute dime, I didn't know he had that in him". He also had a nice deep ball to Aldrick vs ATL, though he had a few steps on his man. 

 

Regardless, dropping bombs 50 yards in the air is not necessary to be a good QB. Most of the good QBs in the league make their livings in the intermediate game. I would rather a guy who can anticipate who will be open and hit them when they are. Hit a guy in stride on a slant that can take it to the house is just as effective, and higher rate of probability, then airing it out. 

 

Not saying it isn't good to have a guy who can do that, and that is definitely one of the strengths with RG3, but it is not necessary. You don't see Peyton dropping 50 yarders, nor Brees really. Grudens old QB Dalton throws wild balls down the field, he just happens to have AJ Green on the other end. And really, we have seen Griffin throw some really inaccurate deep balls as well, sometimes the receiver can make a play on it, sometimes the defender, sometimes no one. Just the nature of throwing deep, and that is why it is a luxury, not a necessity.   

[JoeWolf990]

I hope he does well but I have a feeling he will struggle. He just isnt that good no matter what a portion of this fanbase thinks.

[Brokenstriker]

all these references to Cousins hasn't seen a game plan [tailored to his weaknesses] yet ... he saw a game plan tailored to RGIII's weaknesses last Sunday ... 

 

Can somebody knowledgable/experienced in game planning at a high level explain what major challenges a game plan tailored to KCI present that are different than one tailored for RGIII circa Sept 2014?  Seriously ... I don't understand what the big difference would be at this point.  RGIII 'can' presumably run the hell out of the ball but he hasn't been and there has been no reason to expect him to.  RGIII circa Sept 2014 is a passer primarily from the pocket, occasionally moving the pocket or bootlegging it with run as a survival option primarily and occasionally to keep them honest I assume we finally saw the read option.  All of these things are also characteristic of KCI.  I suppose he might see craftier defensive coverage schemes and more deception (but honestly if you got that in your bag of tricks wouldn't you use it against RGIII even if he's less experienced with the entire pocket passer thing?)

 

Honest serious request ... maybe even a good thread for someone to start

[ghosti]

I hope he does well but I have a feeling he will struggle. He just isnt that good no matter what a portion of this fanbase think

 

 

He may not be all star quality but he’s got a heart of one and is always prepared for a game.  He took over this week and rocked and led us to 41 points.  The whole team came up to a new level I haven’t seen in a while, Jax or not.  Usually we play down to bad opponents. 

[Brokenstriker]

Man, I can't exactly remember the distance, I want to say it was 40 yards, may have been less, but he absolutely stove piped one to Garcon, with two defenders on him, that he didn't come down with. Third quarter I believe. I would have to see it again but I remember thinking, "wow that was an absolute dime, I didn't know he had that in him". 

I'd expect a passer like KCI would be able to get these passes in better than RGIII if not as far in the air as RGIII based on his experience and also a better ability to throw to where the receiver ought to be open instead of throwing to the receiver once they show as 'open.'  Requires less time in the pocket so its more likely.  I get that RGIII has a cannon and KCI isn't gunning it at that level but he's no slouch.  Even if this is a limiting factor ... its kind of like the illusion of the driver in golf ... you use it less than you think and your putter is significantly more important to master.  At most its 3 - 5 plays a game needing to be ~ 10 yards max shorter routes.  Trade huge sack losses due to waiting for receivers to be open for that any day.

[DarkLink]

I hope he does well but I have a feeling he will struggle. He just isnt that good no matter what a portion of this fanbase thinks.

 

How do you know he is not good? Are you judging that from his 3 games last season when everyone already gave up? The season is still fresh and we have more play makers this year. I personally think he will better than what people think.

[dballer]

I'd expect a passer like KCI would be able to get these passes in better than RGIII if not as far in the air as RGIII based on his experience and also a better ability to throw to where the receiver ought to be open instead of throwing to the receiver once they show as 'open.'  Requires less time in the pocket so its more likely.  I get that RGIII has a cannon and KCI isn't gunning it at that level but he's no slouch.  Even if this is a limiting factor ... its kind of like the illusion of the driver in golf ... you use it less than you think and your putter is significantly more important to master.  At most its 3 - 5 plays a game needing to be ~ 10 yards max shorter routes.  Trade huge sack losses due to waiting for receivers to be open for that any day.

 

lol I was in the middle of editing mine when you posted, but exactly, it just isn't something that determines whether a QB is good or not. 

[igglesfan]

Cousins is better than Nick Foles, that's for sure.  We'll see the proof Sunday.

If you confine the analysis to this season only, that's a fair statement (certainly not so if you go by total historical performance), and yes - Sunday will tell the tale for right now.

[JoeWolf990]

He may not be all star quality but he’s got a heart of one and is always prepared for a game.  He took over this week and rocked and led us to 41 points.  The whole team came up to a new level I haven’t seen in a while, Jax or not.  Usually we play down to bad opponents.

I guess, but we had backups all over the field and carved them up. THat says something about Jacksonville.

Also, RG3 looked well on his way to doing the same.

This game against Philly is an important barometer I hope he passes, but I have a feeling his limitations will show like it has often.

Like I said, this fanbase wants Cousins to be great and I have no idea why.

[LD0506]

There's an aspect of Cousins' game that makes a big difference, he's a pocket QB in the mold of others that the O linemen are familiar with. They know where he's gonna be, they don't have to wonder or look over their shoulders to see what adjustments they need to make because Robert is running around. This lets them focus on their assignments better. IMO that's why Kirk comes in and the line looks better, it isn't a Robert-vs-Kirk quality of QB issue, it's a "playing in your comfort zone" kinda thing.

 

I believe this applies to the coaching staff as well, Robert is a phenomenal talent but so far outside their experience in some ways they don't know how to use him best, their reflex is to bend him back into their frame of reference.

 

Robert OTOH has been doing it his own way since forever, his physical skills have allowed him to skip all the intervening steps of learning a pro-style pocket QB game, and he came into the league expecting to do the same thing here. A lot of huge millionaires have been teaching him why you need to do all that work in your game, which by all accounts he has been diligently working to master. I have faith that he'll get there.

 

For now we have a more-than-capable backup that gets his chance, I'll be rooting for him and the rest of the team to do well, but to say this somehow makes Robert expendable is just dumb, and not because of what we "paid" for him.

[JoeWolf990]

How do you know he is not good? Are you judging that from his 3 games last season when everyone already gave up? The season is still fresh and we have more play makers this year. I personally think he will better than what people think.

im confused because the Giants and Falcons had also given up at the end of last season. DOes that not matter?

THe man has a weak arm and is turnover prone. He just isnt that good. I know a lot of you have wanted to believe otherwise for years but the numbers show a limited QB.

[skins island connection]

How do you know he is not good? Are you judging that from his 3 games last season when everyone already gave up? The season is still fresh and we have more play makers this year. I personally think he will better than what people think.

 

 Some people cannot grasp the concept that the entire team blew chunks, they knew they blew, and was morally beaten down before KC even took his first snap last year, but you'll never convince those who say otherwise.

 

 Funny, but when Griffin went down, he didn't go out late in the game, it was early in the game.  Cousins came in, and the entire team rallied around him; they didn't shrug their shoulders, dragging their feet off the field with their heads hung low. No, they ALL played a big part in winning, including that p.o.s. back-up Qb as some believe he is.

 

If you think its bad now, wait for 5-6 more weeks; if we're sitting at 6-3 or 7-2, I can guarantee Cousins ain't sitting down for Griffin if he's playing good. Thats normally a coach-killing move, and being Snyder and Griffin are tight, the only thing tighter is Snyder's wallet, and he's not gonna turn away money and a team on the verge of playoffs for putting Griffin back in and having the fanbase and media slam him to no end, which they will do; and i'll be on the front row.

im confused because the Giants and Falcons had also given up at the end of last season. DOes that not matter?

THe man has a weak arm and is turnover prone. He just isnt that good. I know a lot of you have wanted to believe otherwise for years but the numbers show a limited QB.

 

 This has to be a troll, or you have short term memory loss. Either way you have no clue what you're saying much less the circumstances involved with those games.

[JoeWolf990]

This has to be a troll, or you have short term memory loss. Either way you have no clue what you're saying much less the circumstances involved with those games.

of course its short term memory loss, it goes against the silly narrative you and others have attempted to trumpet.

Shoot, we didnt roll over for Dallas either and he played poorly there. But I guess we quit that day too.

Like I said, I hope he does well and wish him the best. But I have a feeling this wont end well.

[Skinsinparadise]

And Tom Brady was a 7th rounder for a reason and romoSUCKS was and undrafted QB for a reason too (save the romoSUCKS Jokes you get my point)

 

 My post I thought was pretty balanced where I praised Kirk in detail, you seemed to hang on to what you took as a negative.  Yep even in that actual excerpt you quoted, if you grabbed my next sentence, I said there are exceptions and the next paragraph was about all I liked in his game. 

 

For me at this moment, its Cousins starting.  There is no QB controversy considering RG3 for the moment isn't capable of starting. So I just want to see what Cousins will do.    My issue in the past in terms of the Cousins debate is the certainty some have that he is a very good QB or better than RG3 based on the sample sample we've seen.  By any statistical measure, Cousins has been mediocre in his small stint.   I don't get why he deserves to be graded on a curve.   Depending on some of the arguments I've heard -- some say well you don't look at all his games, you cherry pick the ones they deem are more important like the Cleveland one, don't look at his relief job against Atlanta in 2012 look at Baltimore, etc.   Or in the games he didn't play well the team just wasn't trying hard.    Or it was raining.   Or his QB stats or wins and losses don't matter when it comes to Cousins, instead its all about the eye test.    It just seems a bit too much for me -- it seems forced.  For me at least I need to see more.

 

Now I am not in the mood to argue my point above because to me that's about the past.  I do agree with the people who have been clamoring for Cousins that his sample size so far is too small to judge, that he needs the reps, and needs the games to prove himself.   To me, no doubt that's true.  So lets see what he can do.   I am genuinely very curious to see how it plays out.   I definitely am not ruling out him playing well and proving to be the real goods. 

 

As I said in my own post, you can hit lightening in a bottle, it happens sometimes.  All you did is give a couple of examples of lightening in a bottle so it just furthered my point.    And I flat out said Cousins could be one of those exceptions.  And I'd love to see it happen.    I don't think there are or hope there aren't people on this board who are more into a player than the team.  If Cousins is another Tony Romo or Tom Brady, I got my doubts but it would be beyond cool to see it happen.  I'd be ecstatic. 

[StephenDavis]

I think people are setting themselves up for a let down. Cousins has played in 9 NFL games. RG3 has 30 under his belt and two seasons where he got every snap in practice. Yet we seem to be expecting a great deal more, immediately, out of Cousins going into division games which are always tough.

Folks, manage your expectations. The redskins are a 3 win football team and Cousins has 1 week of prep to face the Eagles in Philly.

Last year was BS. Shanahan ran this team into the ground. Talking about what Cousins did last year is about as useful as talking about what he did in the pre-season. Of course Cousins will have some ups and downs, but the kid can play as we saw last week.

[JoeWolf990]

For me at this moment, its Cousins starting. There is no QB controversy considering RG3 for the moment isn't capable of starting. So I just want to see what Cousins will do. My issue in the past in terms of the Cousins debate is the certainty some have that he is a very good QB or better than RG3 based on the sample sample we've seen. By any statistical measure, Cousins has been mediocre in his small stint. I don't get why he deserves to be graded on a curve. Depending on some of the arguments I've heard -- some say well you don't look at all his games, you cherry pick the ones they deem are more important like the Cleveland one, don't look at his relief job against Atlanta in 2012 look at Baltimore, etc. Or in the games he didn't play well the team just wasn't trying hard. Or it was raining. Or his QB stats or wins and losses don't matter when it comes to Cousins, instead its all about the eye test. It just seems a bit too much for me -- it seems forced. For me at least I need to see more

exactly.

[steve09ru]

Like I said, this fanbase wants Cousins to be great and I have no idea why.

 

Maybe because we want to have a successful team?  We want RG3 to be great too, along with everyone else.  I wonder why some people within this fan base don't want Cousins to be great?