Going Commando Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Could be different cultures at different field offices. If a clown like Rudy has pull with the New York office, that doesn't speak well for them. I also heard a former director from the New York office give an interview on NPR several days ago and he was a Trump supporter who came off as impossibly naive about him. Dovetailing off zoony's point, cops are just people too. They have political bias and there is no way it doesn't effect their work on a highly political case. What we do know is that Comey has utterly failed to keep to the FBI's mandate of not directly influencing elections. Maybe he's doing the best he can in a difficult situation, but he failed nonetheless. And if there is such serious infighting going on between the various field offices, then that speaks to there being a leadership vacuum in the FBI IMO. The agency is going to have to be watched by Congress a lot more closely now. ****ing incompetent Congress too. Folks this is reason #58,742 why it's important to have a competent Congress. The FBI is going to come out of this with damaged credibility. And it will hurt them in future investigations. There is absolutely no incentive for any political figure to ever cooperate with one of their investigations again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I'd say that signs point to a (small?) group of FBI employees engaging in the political process. That doesn't really mean they (and the Bureau) aren't diligent and thorough workers, right? I also think that election, for various reasons, has brought to the surface a passion and divisiveness that we haven't seen in recent history. Not a shock to me that this would affect (certain?) FBI agents too. It is dangerous though and seriously unfortunate - possibly/probably for the nation and the Bureau. Ironic that one of the major issues Trump supporters have is corruption and mistrust regarding the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I have a hard time believing this case has gotten to where it is because of a small number of agents or a culture problem in a field office. This is among the bigger cases the FBI has worked with. The director himself is involved. He's testifying to congress, he's putting out statements on the case directly to congress. If the media and politicians are right, then this is a culture problem throughout the FBI and it flies in the face of what the FBI is supposed to stand for (and what everyone I know who's worked with them has ever said about them. For me it's putting what the media and politicians are saying up against people I know with actual experience working with the FBI. I'm not in any way trying to convince anyone to think anything on this. I'm just saying that I'm having a really, really hard time figuring out what to think when I try to put all of this together and reconcile it into an opinion on the situation. What's worrying me is how few people (not here - i'm talking about what you see in public and in the news) seem to even been talking about what a big issue this is. They seem to just be on one side or the other. Like I said - to me, this is the biggest issue going on right now. If the FBI is really in the business of manipulating elections then we have a real problem. If the politicians and media are really willing to throw the integrity of the FBI under the bus for the purposes of partisan bull**** then we also have a real problem. I cannot figure out which one is worse, or which one accurate describes reality at this point. (though I'm inclined to lean towards the issue being with the politicians and media, because I think there's ample proof to support that and very little to support the problem is with the FBI. the media just makes **** up and lies to us all the time. we know this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, zoony said: You could literally be talking about my dad, though without knowing everything about your friend id say my dad is slightly higher in military qualifications.. he will not be voting clinton. military people are just people You're right, they're just people. But people with a totally different level of training and experience as well as an inside view on things that give a vastly different perspective from my experience. As such, I pay more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I'll point out earlier things that could maybe point to an earlier erosion of the FBIs image of invincibility, too. Things that might indicate that this wasn't entirely a sudden event Wasnt it the FBI's anti-terrorism unit who correctly predicted an Obama victory leading to a threat increase from right wing causes? (Followed immediately by the Republicans successfully shutting down the entire unit?) I also wonder if the handling of the bird sanctuary might be another signpost in the road that got us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: So I googled "Melania is so stupid" and got 3 results Then I googled "Hope Hillary gets raped" and got 30 results Then I googled "Michelle Obama is a gorilla" and got 18,000 results Then I googled "Obama is a "n-word"" and got 30 something thousand results. Woke up to some thought provoking responses to my comment on Facebook including. 1. The reason I can find only 3 "Melania is stupid" vs over 30,000 Obama is an N word" is because thevObamas have been around for 9 years. 2. I have no problem with Obama being black. What bothers me is him being Muslim and lying about it. 3. Michelle is more like a tranny than a gorilla. Im not making this **** up and this was not me being trolled. People actually think these are well-reasoned responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Some of ya'll need to start cleaning out your facebook "friends" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Im not making this **** up and this was not me being trolled. People actually think these are well-reasoned responses. Well, all the folks they chat with, online, think that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I saw 538 has started to shift Florida towards Clinton, as well as NC though less so, after they had been trending to Trump. If the black vote gets going, she wins both states relatively comfortable based on the Hispanic turnout. I do also wonder if the Arab-American vote is up this election or Asian-Americans. If Trump loses due to the Hispanic vote, does the GOP finally pass immigration reform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, Hersh said: If Trump loses due to the Hispanic vote, does the GOP finally pass immigration reform? More voter suppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: You're right, they're just people. But people with a totally different level of training and experience as well as an inside view on things that give a vastly different perspective from my experience. As such, I pay more attention. Trust me you'd not like talking to my dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 The FBI has a clear history of political bias and involvement. J Edgar Hoover used his friends in Congress to shield himself for decades and the FBI spent the first couple of decades of the Cold War harassing and witch hunting communists. An interesting homework assignment would be to see if there is historical precedent for the agency influencing elections. I'm not aware of one, so this could be another new and dangerous violation of our democratic norms. Wonder if we can all look forward to a Trump presidency that uses the FBI to go after its critics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 That Eichenwald article is pretty interesting. Nothing particularly new in regards to Trump's ties, but the Russian hacking stuff is really concerning. Also scary to see how worried intelligence officials around the world are about Trump being president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: I saw 538 has started to shift Florida towards Clinton, as well as NC though less so, after they had been trending to Trump. If the black vote gets going, she wins both states relatively comfortable based on the Hispanic turnout. I do also wonder if the Arab-American vote is up this election or Asian-Americans. If Trump loses due to the Hispanic vote, does the GOP finally pass immigration reform? They can't until they get their base on board. Four years and counting. Plus Trump has used/stoked anti-immigrant sentiment making it a tougher lift. It would be beautiful symmetry if Trump's campaign begins with anti-immigrant statements and ends with historic immigrant turnout doing him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, zoony said: Trust me you'd not like talking to my dad. I guess it would depend on whether he's basing his opinion off a politicized worldview or if he's speaking from his training and experience. If he's just spouting worldview then yeah, we'd probably not get along, but if he's speaking from a military background then I'd be interested. I cannot imagine many military brass who appreciate being thrown under the bus like Trump has repeatedly done, nor can I imagine that they appreciate the disrespect from Trump toward soldiers, POWs, and those suffering with PTSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Some of ya'll need to start cleaning out your facebook "friends" list. I ran the youth football program in my area for a decade. Some of these people are parents of kids that I coached or that came through the league. Not my actual friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Random thoughts/observations: I have friends on both sides. I try to stay in the middle. I see most of the Trump supporters that I know as being angry white, tired of PC, tired of black lives matter types of people. I see most of the Clinton supporters as teachers/educators (meaning that Clinton will do more for educators than Trump will). The Trump supporters are all focusing on how corrupt Clinton is. The Clinton supporters are all focusing on how racist Trump is. From my point of view, Clinton supports my profession more. I can relate to Trumps "tired of PC" mentality. I personally don't think the president has a much of an impact on my daily life compared to congress. I think the Clinton email stuff is a joke. Not important to me personally. I don't care that Trump said some of the things he said. Ultimately, I think this will be an interesting election. Overall, I don't like where our country is headed as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 It would not surprise me if there was some significant disconnect between the FBI's higher ups and some field office agents. It doesn't take a huge number of people in an organization like the FBI to kind of take the place off the rails. If, say, 10% of their agents have strong feelings about keeping Hillary out, and are willing to rationalize actions, that 10% could cause a lot of turmoil while the agency at large remains mostly like it always has. It would be a sort of extreme version of fairly well known disconnect between agents and prosecutors. Prosecutors are fairly "conservative" in their actions and views on chances of success, or so I've read. By comparison, agents are more aggressive. The story that agents wanted to go after Hillary based on the fairly dubious "Clinton Cash" book, while higher ups and prosecutors told them no, could be a good demonstration of the wider issue. It is possible that some in the FBI, which in modern times has mostly managed to often suppress politicization, has, as the country has become more divided, succumbed to hyper-partisanship. It wouldn't take that many to create the kind of dissonance we see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, codeorama said: The Trump supporters are all focusing on how corrupt Clinton is. The Clinton supporters are all focusing on how racist Trump is. As a Clinton supporter, I'm far more focused on policy and competency. And I think you can find a multitude of examples in this thread of Clinton supporters trying desperately to steer the conversation to those matters. The Trump/racist thing keeps popping up because racism is a central pillar of his campaign and he enjoys tremendous support from white nationalist organizations as a result of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Looking through this, maybe Bernie should be in NH, and not Iowa and Nebraska, although I guess they want to get an electoral vote from Nebraska and Iowa is in the area. Still Iowa seems unlikely to go to Hillary at this point. Maybe the schedule was made less recently though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 25 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: I guess it would depend on whether he's basing his opinion off a politicized worldview or if he's speaking from his training and experience. If he's just spouting worldview then yeah, we'd probably not get along, but if he's speaking from a military background then I'd be interested. I cannot imagine many military brass who appreciate being thrown under the bus like Trump has repeatedly done, nor can I imagine that they appreciate the disrespect from Trump toward soldiers, POWs, and those suffering with PTSD. Like I said you wouldn't like it i also go to church with a retired 4 star Marine corps general. He was literally the highest ranking officer in the Marine Corps and top 4 nationally. You have contacts in the Methodist church I'm sure you can look him up and let me tell you, you REALLY would hate talking to him. Thats ehy why the framers were smart to put civilians in control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 41 minutes ago, Larry said: I'll point out earlier things that could maybe point to an earlier erosion of the FBIs image of invincibility, too. Things that might indicate that this wasn't entirely a sudden event Wasnt it the FBI's anti-terrorism unit who correctly predicted an Obama victory leading to a threat increase from right wing causes? (Followed immediately by the Republicans successfully shutting down the entire unit?) I also wonder if the handling of the bird sanctuary might be another signpost in the road that got us here. Are you talking about the Extremism and Radicalization Branch of DHS? Not the FBI at all, nor were many in the FBI fond of the groups focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Speaking of the Hillary / Bin Laden picture, the same lady that posted that on Facebook sent me a private message with a picture saying something to the effect of Democrats: Melania is so stupid. Republicans: Bill Clinton is a sexual predator Democrats: Bill Clinton isn't running for president So I googled "Melania is so stupid" and got 3 results Then I googled "Hope Hillary gets raped" and got 30 results Then I googled "Michelle Obama is a gorilla" and got 18,000 results Then I googled "Obama is a "n-word"" and got 30 something thousand results. Then you got added to an FBI watch list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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