Is Griffin A Good Enough Pocket Passer?

[rskin72]

I don't think Philly dialed it back as much as maybe their players were a little gassed.  I also think that RGIII began to hit a comfort zone in the second half....and hopefully that will carry over to Sunday and beyond.

 

As to the OP....I concur with others that RGIII is a very intelligent, accurate QB with a cannon for an arm.  But as with any other QB, if he is to sit in the pocket and pass, he needs protection that our Oline struggles to provide.  Sure that we will see a lot of up the middle blitzes from the Pack this weekend.  Heck, I remember the Bengals game last season where RGIII got lit up in the pocket.  Much was Oline, and some was RGIII just not getting rid of the ball on a play that was not working. 

 

But....to limit RGIII to the pocket is to reduce some of his playmaking ability....some of what makes him special.  Last night I did not see a lot of roll outs.....and RGIII did not look like his old nimble self in the pocket, one that can spin and make defenders miss him like last season. 

[Taylor703]

With two healthy legs their isn't anyone in my opinion who throws a more accurate pass. The kid has the goods and as the season progresses and he gets his legs back under him he's going to eat defenses alive.

[darrelgreenie]

This is a great question going forward. Imho last year the drop back passing  aspect of the offense was under developed.

We threw a lot from play-action and movement, and there is nothing wrong with that, it lead to top 5 offense. However the offense wasn't good enough on 3rd downs, known passing sitiations where play-action and movement are effective. Better minds then mine (Greg Cosell, Trent Dilfer, Jaworski) noticed and commented on who 'simple' the design of the passing game was. For me this isn't a question of Griffin but a question on the passsing game as unit: the design, the protection, the QB and the receivers.

 

I think we're going to get our answer this weekend when we face the Packers. To my eye the Eagles played in a similar defensive posture as the Packers against the 49ers. They sold out hard against the running game to include the read option and challenged the passing game to beat them. The 49ers passing game answered the bell.

 

I think Griffin is good enough but he hasn't had much experience doing it in this scheme and he's a little rusty (though hopefully most of that rust will be gone). Can the pass protection hold up to throw downfield and give Robert time to go throw reads without duress? Or will the passing game be focused on quick decisions from 3-step timing and count on the receivers making YAC?

 

I'm looking forward to the next test and our answers.

[NoCalMike]

The entire "simple design" stuff is bunk. Well let me restate. It isn't entirely untrue, but it seems like commentators want to use it to knock RGIII, while the 49ers basically devised the same exact thing for Kap.

 

Go back and watch Kap, it is read option or zone fakes, then firing off to the primary receiver just about every time. 

 

That is pretty much what the 49ers do to.  The difference though is the 49ers have a stout O-line so Kap has time to sit back and wait for more options just in case.

 

In the case of Washington, RGIII pretty much needs every play to be treated like a hot route because of the lack of protection he gets,.

 

Are you telling me with THIS o-line, he is going to be able to sit back in the pocket and make 3-4 reads? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

[Puma Kane]

The entire "simple design" stuff is bunk. Well let me restate. It isn't entirely untrue, but it seems like commentators want to use it to knock RGIII, while the 49ers basically devised the same exact thing for Kap.

 

Go back and watch Kap, it is read option or zone fakes, then firing off to the primary receiver just about every time. 

 

That is pretty much what the 49ers do to.  The difference though is the 49ers have a stout O-line so Kap has time to sit back and wait for more options just in case.

 

In the case of Washington, RGIII pretty much needs every play to be treated like a hot route because of the lack of protection he gets,.

 

Are you telling me with THIS o-line, he is going to be able to sit back in the pocket and make 3-4 reads? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

No he will not be able to sit back in the pocket and go through progression. Teams understand that the line is smallish. Either guys are being bull rushed or knocked over leaving RG3 exposed.

I could imagine RG3 doing well behind the line of Tom Brady on passing plays.

Its sad the we can't put any money into the offense because of Mara.

[RandyHolt]

Every play is like a hot route. So true.

 

Get used to it. Its a no brainer to come hard after RGIII. 

 

Flyweight OL just begging to be bull rushed, and they know we want to run Morris before throwing... why would defenses do anything else until we have our run game established?

 

Our OL is going no where. Together last year a vet unit now, this is who they are. So D's are going to crush the A gap and crush the step up to throw. 

 

I know we were a top offense last year but feel that Kyle must make adjustments. It's so simple. Roll the kid out.  Suck them in and screen. Spread out 4 wide. I question anyone that says we cannot do those things a few times a game to keep Ds honest, and still win. 

[dcdiscokid]

Griff is fine in the pocket. That is, provided the pocket is there. This OL is built to move & roll the QB out, not stand there & hold a pocket for 5-7 step drop backs.

My thoughts exactly, our offence isn't built to be a pocket passing team.

[BraunMan92]

No he will not be able to sit back in the pocket and go through progression. Teams understand that the line is smallish. Either guys are being bull rushed or knocked over leaving RG3 exposed.

 

What's the deal with our strength and conditioning program?  With the Hogs, it was top tier.  We built big strong linemen with that program.

 

Now they get overpowered routinely.  

 

Our strength and conditioning program needs to be overhauled.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He showed me something last night.  I enjoyed the hell out of watching him back there in 5 wide (how about that Reed kid, btw?) and he made a lot of the right throws from where I was sitting.

 

He gets that timing and confidence down throughout the game.  But he showed me something last night.

 

A lot of us wanted to see him in 5 wide last year but we never needed it with Morris playing so well.  I say let the kid go.  He looked fantastic once in rhythm.

 

Nice OP.

 

I think it will take some time for us to get there, but it wouldn't shock me to see the 5-wide, quick-paced offense as a package we roll out every now and then. He can obviously do it and we are pretty close to having the personnel to give defenses headaches. With Garcon, Robinson, Moss, Morgan, Helu, Davis, and Reed...we have athletes. This helps the OL as well as we can pop quick passes.

What's the deal with our strength and conditioning program?  With the Hogs, it was top tier.  We built big strong linemen with that program.

 

Now they get overpowered routinely.  

 

Our strength and conditioning program needs to be overhauled.

 

They are built to be quick and agile, not the Hogs.

[RandyHolt]

The board needs a Jordan Reed thread.

 

Really, one of our only bright spots.

 

I was expecting at least 3 threads by now. 

 

Back OT, our OL is fast. Maybe we dont roll out the pocket etc because they are gassed from our run plays.  they looked gassed coming up field in the 2 minute drill

[DC9]

I think it will take some time for us to get there, but it wouldn't shock me to see the 5-wide, quick-paced offense as a package we roll out every now and then. He can obviously do it and we are pretty close to having the personnel to give defenses headaches. With Garcon, Robinson, Moss, Morgan, Helu, Davis, and Reed...we have athletes. This helps the OL as well as we can pop quick passes.

 

Yep.  It's all about rythm, and those guys will give defenses fits.  A good mix of speed, agility, size, and power.  Also, Helu needs more touches.  As I've said at naseum, lol.

 

And I really like what I saw out of Reed.  Good golly miss molly he looks so much bigger than he is listed at.

 

By the way, great write-up yesterday, brother.  I enjoyed it Kudos and hang in there, we'll be fine.

[The Trashman]

So, again, it seems our OL is built to be small, agile and to finesse the Read Option and roll-out passing game. I stress that you all pay attention to how Green Bay will mitigate (or at least try) the Read Option, as they did last week. We had better have a plan to stop the bull rush with our small OL or Robert will have a long day on Sunday.

 

I believe we can always switch to Helu to amplify the dual threat if either Robert or Albert are having tough days. Expect a whole lot of Helu this year as teams get caught up to the Read Option.  Maybe (2) 1000 yard backs?

[WakkaWakka]

The answer is yes. Skins' O-Line just needs to provide the pocket. Other than Trent, throw them all into the dumpster.

[DC9]

The board needs a Jordan Reed thread.

 

Really, one of our only bright spots.

 

I was honestly surprised he was active.  He looked right at home out there, big target too.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yep.  It's all about rythm, and those guys will give defenses fits.  A good mix of speed, agility, size, and power.  Also, Helu needs more touches.  As I've said at naseum, lol.

 

And I really like what I saw out of Reed.  Good golly miss molly he looks so much bigger than he is listed at.

 

By the way, great write-up yesterday, brother.  I enjoyed it Kudos and hang in there, we'll be fine.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it!

 

I like Reed too and hope he develops into a dangerous weapon this year. I believe we're getting close to the point in our organizational maturity where we can continue to swap out our supporting cast with younger, cheaper options. Griffin and a couple other weapons (currently Garcon and Morris) will be our constants but the rest can change.

 

I see Reed overtaking Davis at TE. Who knows what our WRs will look like in a year or two. I like to have that type of flexibility on offense.

[nuposse87]

In the 2nd half I saw him going through more reads then I can remember last year, so at least there is signs of progress. Physically he wasn't mechanically where he was last season but I suspect we should be able to see that by week 3. Also, I don't think any of our receivers are quite elite, so it is asking much of Griffin to make his WRs that much better this early in the season. 

[Ozymandias]

I actually loved the fact that he threw close to 50 times. The first half was atrocious but that could have been because of nerves and rust. Second half i really liked what i saw, and would take him throwing 50 times and running only when it is absolutely necessary, then having him call his own run plays. My heart drops into my stomach every time he tucks and runs.

[Darth Tater]

when the eagles dialed it back and looked to be in prevent mode ?  trash stats

The eagles did NOT dial it back until late in the fourth quarter.  So, no, they were not trash stats.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

This is a great question going forward. Imho last year the drop back passing  aspect of the offense was under developed.

We threw a lot from play-action and movement, and there is nothing wrong with that, it lead to top 5 offense. However the offense wasn't good enough on 3rd downs, known passing sitiations where play-action and movement are effective. Better minds then mine (Greg Cosell, Trent Dilfer, Jaworski) noticed and commented on who 'simple' the design of the passing game was. For me this isn't a question of Griffin but a question on the passsing game as unit: the design, the protection, the QB and the receivers.

 

I think we're going to get our answer this weekend when we face the Packers. To my eye the Eagles played in a similar defensive posture as the Packers against the 49ers. They sold out hard against the running game to include the read option and challenged the passing game to beat them. The 49ers passing game answered the bell.

 

I think Griffin is good enough but he hasn't had much experience doing it in this scheme and he's a little rusty (though hopefully most of that rust will be gone). Can the pass protection hold up to throw downfield and give Robert time to go throw reads without duress? Or will the passing game be focused on quick decisions from 3-step timing and count on the receivers making YAC?

 

I'm looking forward to the next test and our answers.

I think it'd have to be taken into consideration with the T.O.P. (time of possession) method.  If we're looking to keep Aaron Rogers' and company off the field, then send the WRs out on hitch routes with hopes of gaining Y.A.C. might be the best development. 

[NewCliche21]

There are no such things as garbage stats.

 

No team willingly gives up a single yard or lets another team get enough momentum to be *THIS* close to mounting a comeback.  None.

 

If stats in the third and fourth don't count for this game, then would any interceptions count?  Incompletions?  Do you just delete those from talking about the performance for the game?  I mean, that's what you're doing for touchdowns and yards, right?  If you're going to arbitrarily remove data from your set on one side, then you have to do it on the other.  You also then don't have a valid outcome.

 

The whole argument of "garbage stats" is preposterous.  

[MartinC]

Um lets see. How much time Kap had to make a throw? There was no one around him while making his throws. Then when he did throw it. His Wrs made plays for him. Boldin was a beast. Do have a WR that is going to play with that will and determination and focus?

 

The question should be do we have the O'Line to give him the same kind of time Kap had if Green Bay stack the LOS to take away the running game and make RGIII carry the load throwing it. The O'Line did pretty well against the Eagles in the second half when we had to pass with no real threat of a running game or play action - not GREAT but better than we saw in some similar situations last year.

 

It helped that we were throwing a lot of short passes and getting the ball out of RGIIIs hand - but then thats the MO of just about every current NFL offense. It will be interesting to see what the gameplan looks like.

 

Whatever the gameplan execution needs to be a LOT better.

[Cliffmark1]

These posters always seem to forget his TD to INT ratio.  Arguably the most important stat for a pocket passer and RG3 nails it.  Not yet this year, but maybe RG3 shouldn't be playing yet.

[skins4ever17]

Hey, at least we have KC1 right?

[MWAI]

Jaws says that RG3 is not throwing off his back foot. Well duh. It is his injured leg. Marshall Faulk say RG3 is not dynamic and cannot run right now. Well duh. RG3 is still injured and healing. He is not the same. It is what I have been saying. He has been lying about how he is 100 percent. Any goober can see he is not the same so why does Shanahan want to risk the franchise QB for some short term benefit. RG3 should have been coming back AFTER the first 4 games and the bye week....as I have said before.

 

Watch carefully. He will not be right or "clicking" until the Dallas game. At that point he will be closer to 10 months after the injury and not 8 months which is a minimal amount for an injury like that. Dr. Andrews did not do Robert a favor by calling him a Super Human because Shanahan and RG3 took that to mean he can play in 8 months, which as we have all seen, is a mistake because he is favoring his leg and actually appeared to be limping slightly at times.

 

How many times must Shanahan be allowed to risk the franchise?

[ZRagone]

If he was held out till the bye then he probably wouldn't be fully "clicking" till after a few games either, because he's still has to get used to being in a game again and fully trusting his body

It happened to Tom Brady. It happened to Peyton Manning. It happened to Adrian Peterson. It doesn't mean he's not healthy