Is Griffin A Good Enough Pocket Passer?

[DogofWar1]

He's in the process of shaking off the rust, both physically and mentally.  If he's healed then keeping him out probably doesn't do much good, it'll simply keep him from shaking off the mental rust sooner.

 

He looks poor early, and great late.  Hopefully Shanahan can work with him and the offense and get his late game going earlier.

 

His post-game Q&A was good, I thought.  He seems to understand that he hasn't been playing to level he needs to.  I'm hoping that bodes well.

[RiverboatGambler]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing.  Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths. 

 

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

 

1. He hasn't played football  since the Seahawk game last January.  No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

 

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

 

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win. 

 

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses. 

 

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about  NFL football.

 OMG REESONINGZ.

 

Thank you . I agree completely.

 

I have to add that if the O-line does not improve in pass protection, robert's progress will be slowed greatly. Trying to develop him not as a passer in terms of mechanics but mentally while trying to bring him back up to speed and protect the knee is a tough operation but it NEEDs to happen. He only threw 2 or 3 truly bad passes. The rest were drops or throw aways.

[Taylor703]

He did not play well today. But I'm not writing him off

He did not play well today. But I'm not writing him off

He sure as hell didn't play bad. He can't sit in the pocket because there isn't one and he damn sure cant catch the ball too. Davis, Paulson, Morgan all were dropping passes. The reality is this offense can't make one mistake because we can't count on the defense to stop anything. We had this same problem last year when we had to score over 30 points to win a game because the defense was so bad.

[longball]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing.  Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths. 

 

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

 

1. He hasn't played football  since the Seahawk game last January.  No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

 

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

 

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win. 

 

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses. 

 

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about  NFL football.

So our success last year in a stupid pistol offense was so ineffective it could never take us to a Super Bowl? So it didn't take us on great run?When he ran the ball it opened up everything and he was much more passionate when he played this way. Pistol offense is based of a version of the wing t. But we ran more of a read option, and that why other teams followed because it was so effective. And those teams continue to do so.

I know plenty about football, and we will fail if we try to run a pocket passing offense for him to develop. Most of NFL is running misdirection offense as modern day football.

[Year_of_The_Monk]

I would blame the play calling like so many others are doing except for one sound bite ~ Coaches coach and players make plays. No matter what the coaches call, its our job to go out there and make the play work - ( paraphrased RG3)

 

On another note, me and my boys have a saying " You are only as good as your last game!" So until I see otherwise, we look bad. wow, Do not look like a Super Bowl team but hopefully we can go from toilet bowl to Super Bowl. I am not ready for any more losing years with my Skins!
 

[longball]

The 49ers were 4 points away from doing that with Kaepernick last season. I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

The 49ers were 4 points away from doing that with Kaepernick last season. I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

You hit the nail on the head. Running QB's open up everything and spread the D

[TD Riggo]

I'm certainly not saying Griff should be benched, but essentially saying 'the coaches say everything's fine, argument over' is really silly  right now.

 

 

Griff will not sit on the bench until he (God forbid) has a significant injury! He will continue to be the starter to give him more and more confidence and start gelling with the offense. I still think '3 and the offense will be fine within a few weeks. It is the defense (namely, secondary) that will continue to suck. And thus, this season is shaping up to be almost a repeat of last season. Our wins will come in the latter part of the season. Again.

[wit33]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing.  Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths. 

 

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

 

1. He hasn't played football  since the Seahawk game last January.  No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

 

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

 

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win. 

 

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses. 

 

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about  NFL football.

Seahawks and Niners will have great opportunities to win the BOWL with the read option. I do agree he's behind in his development as a pocket passer. The offense is in an incredibly difficult situation, they are trying to develop a scheme on the fly that compensates Griffin's deficiencies (health) and attempts to not put him in harms way as much as they did last year. THey have failed miserably so far. 

[Puma Kane]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing.  Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths. 

 

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

 

1. He hasn't played football  since the Seahawk game last January.  No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

 

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

 

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win. 

 

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses. 

 

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about  NFL football.

I wouldn't say all that. I watched several teams run the Pistol today and it worked.

EVERY play and scheme works and at all levels.

It all comes down to management and proper execution.

At one time people said the forward pass wouldn't work.

At one time people said nothing outside of the wing set wouldn't work at the NFL.

At one time people said the Wild cat wouldn't work.

At one time........~

[lovemaskins]

The 49ers were 4 points away from doing that with Kaepernick last season. I don't think it's too much of a stretch.

Wow that's a crazy statement.  The 49ers didn't run the read option exclusively like we did last year. 

 

It wasn't until other teams saw us using it successfully, that they started using it.  Not to mention the 49ers had arguably the best defense and o-line in football.  AND THEY STILL LOST. 

 

They were also getting blown out running that offense in the Superbowl until the lights went out.  How quickly people omit the truth when they're trying to prove a lost argument.

[redskins59]

Jason Campbell looked terrible even in Garbage time.

[TD Riggo]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing.  Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths. 

 

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

 

1. He hasn't played football  since the Seahawk game last January.  No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

 

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

 

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win. 

 

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses. 

 

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about  NFL football.

 

 

I agree with some of what you posted, but I disagree with "the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option." As a previous poster stated, the 49ers did pretty much almost do that with the read option. The Seahags did pretty well with it too. The E-gals just gave us fits with it last week. And speaking of the 'Hags, we were eating their lunch with it last January until Robert went down. I don't disagree with the concept of trying to evolve Robert's game, but his greatest success over the next couple of years will include heavy usage of his legs. The problem is, his legs (and his confidence in them) just isn't there yet. But we will fail to reach the playoffs this year if we try to turn him into a pocket passer during the season!

[Puma Kane]

Wow that's a crazy statement.  The 49ers didn't run the read option exclusively like we did last year. 

 

It wasn't until other teams saw us using it successfully, that they started using it.  Not to mention the 49ers had arguably the best defense and o-line in football.  AND THEY STILL LOST. 

 

They were also getting blown out running that offense in the Superbowl until the lights went out.  How quickly people omit the truth when they're trying to prove a lost argument.

Yes they did. Teams saw the success we had with it and it went from 'gimmick' to 'sht just serious' offense.

In fact Seattle went more toward it after 49ers start having success. Wilson numbers grew because of it.

[Wyvern]

I think Griffin will look better after the bye. Hopefully the Skins will one or two of the next two games before the bye.

But for these last couple of games, Griffin did not look very good, regardless of his final stats. While he showed accuracy and strength in college and in some of his Pro games, he's got a long way to go to be a top-tier pocket passer QB. As he hones those talents, his mobility can bail him out. (I think he's learning to rebuild trust in that mobility again.)

Unfortunately, these 4 games are his preseason, during which he's going to have to relearn his accuracy throwing on a repaired leg. That takes time.

[lovemaskins]

I wish some of you talking about other teams running the read option like we do would actually watch those "other" teams.  The more traditional read option is a lot different from the pistol formation we run.  And those "other" teams use it selectively as a wrinkle in there offense, ala San Fran, Seahawks, Panthers etc...  Their offenses are built primarily on traditional pro style offense, and they also have incredibly talented defenses, except for Carolina, but it is a lot better than ours.

 

Really, there is nothing worse than people arguing about something they don't know that they don't know.  Do some research before you talk.  Watch a game instead of saying, "The 49ers run the same offense."  It's just not true.  Kaepernick didn't throw for 400 yards last week running the pistol. 

[gmac79d]

Some of what I'm reading is embarrassing. Some of you should really try to learn aa little about football instead of just opening your mouths.

Robert looks like he does for two reasons.

1. He hasn't played football since the Seahawk game last January. No OTA's, minicamps, 7 on 7s, scrimmages, preseason, practice, etc...

2. He ran the stupid pistol offense all last year, which stunted his growth as an NFL quarterback, and hid his deficiencies as a pocket passer.

What's even dumber is people are actually mad because our FRANCHISE QB is now taking the "lumps" he should have taken last year, in order to actually develop into a pocket passer or whatever hybrid type qb he needs to be to win.

Fact is, the Redskins are not winning a Superbowl with Robert running the read option, and he's not going to improve on 3rd down as a passer until he develops the ability to read defenses.

I am happy he and the staff have decided what's best for him and the team by letting him develop correctly despite the idiocy of some of our fan base who seem to know little about NFL football.

Agreed. It will take some time to get his legs back. He's only in his second year, give him some time. He looks more than capable of being effective passing from the pocket.

But to be clear, they didn't and don't run the "stupid pistol offense". They incorporate a pistol formation into both Kyle's and Mike offensive concepts and have included some read option and read option play action pass plays in their attack. These are not mutually exclusive with developing as a "pocket passer". He needs to do both, and more, to maximize his potential as a dominant offensive weapon. Voluntarily eliminating plays that take advantage of his abilities as a runner would be asinine.

Wow that's a crazy statement.  The 49ers didn't run the read option exclusively like we did last year. 

We ran the read option exclusively last year? That's news to me.

[Gymratfwp]

Post game quote "I am not going to run to show people that I can run, thats stupid". The read option is based on a Qb's ability to run, that is what made our O prolific last year---rushing lanes, open receivers, zone blocking all because the D is keying on him. Now our opponents are saying please run, and he does not so they can put more in the box. And we are seeing limited play calls from last year. As a result a zone blocking built line is trying to protect a pocket and they are out matched and not build for that protection it is a zone blocking o line. Our QB is not a pocket passer, and never will be in this league. Not sure if I can blame Roberts arrogance or coaches for playing him when he is nt the same player. We basically have Rex in the pocket. HTTR

Seriously? We are 2 games into the season and we are already comparing RG to Rex? This is beyond ridiculous.

Our franchise QB is coming off of a major injury and is still knocking the rust off....when he will be back to his usual self we won't know...but can we get a larger sample size then 2 games to start comparing RG to Rex?

Geez...we are all frustrated here about how our team has performed so far but the Hyberbole is getting a bit overblown.

[PlayAction]

I wish some of you talking about other teams running the read option like we do would actually watch those "other" teams.  The more traditional read option is a lot different from the pistol formation we run.  And those "other" teams use it selectively as a wrinkle in there offense, ala San Fran, Seahawks, Panthers etc... 

 

Skins did not run the read option exclusively last year.  The Skins used the pistol formation effectively but it was not always read-option out of that formation.  Kyle Shanahan liked the pistol because he could run both the read-option and the traditional Shanahan offense out of that formation.

[NikoBellic]

The silver lining in this injury and the lack of rg3 running is that he is being forced to develop into a true pocket passer. There will be a difficult learning curve with lots of interceptions and bad throws (like Luck) but he will benefit from it in the long run and when we finally do have rg3 run again, the offense will be better than ever.

[redskins4ever28]

Jason Campbell looked terrible even in Garbage time.

 

This.

Rex, Jason, Brunell, Mcnabb, they all looked terrible even when we were getting blown out.  Robert is fine, defense is bad, and we will get better when Kyle realizes Griffin is great when hes got 5 wr and spreading the o out

[Momma There Goes That Man]

RG3 could be a good pocket passer. He hasn't been terrible by any means IMO. The problem is we don't really have the OL to let him. I will say though he looks damn better these first two games than at any point last season too so I have no problem in his ability outside of normal young QB growth.

Comparisons to Kaep are ridiculous. Give Kaep this defense, OL and a knee surety recovery and see how he looks.

We would be much better to get Robert moving on some bootlegs or rollouts much the same way the Seahawks use Wilson. They have to move the pocket and get him outside because he is so ineffective straight from the pocket. I have no idea why the coaches won't do that.

Griffin is the real deal. Can't believe after last season you people are so quick to turn on our franchise QB after two and completely write him off in addition to throwing the bulk of the blame his way for his arrogance, unwillingness to run etc, (neither of the latter two has been proven to be anything more than angry rambles)

It's pretty pathetic and disappointing if you ask me.

[lovemaskins]

Skins did not run the read option exclusively last year.  The Skins used the pistol formation effectively but it was not always read-option out of that formation.  Kyle Shanahan liked the pistol because he could run both the read-option and the traditional Shanahan offense out of that formation.

While I understand your comment and yes of course I exaggerated by saying exclusively, our offense last year was based in the pistol and read option concept.  Everything else was linked to it in some fashion.  The concept keeps a defense guessing about run or pass due to the alignment of the offense, etc.. I think we all get this concept, although some of you I'm not sure. 

 

The problem with this set is that while it keeps a defense off balance in either or situations, i.e. run or pass, on pure passing situations, e.g. 3rd and long (>6) the defense knows your throwing, hell the whole world knows your throwing, and that's is when a qb makes his money, legacy, career, etc...  Robert has not shown the ability to pass in these situations.  Yes he has gotten a first down on third and long for you purists out there, but consistently, his numbers show his struggle, on pure passing downs, as we were bottom of the league on third downs last year.

 

Now, teams have film on us and the "read option" PISTOL FORMATION and have a better grasp at how to stop it.  Also, they now know RG3s weakness.  MIDDLE PRESSURE!!!  He is struggling to make a quick good read on passing downs with pressure in his face, as do most qbs, and he's not going to improve without reps. 

 

And if he continues to run the pistol 75% of the time, he will develop more slowly, and keep getting hit in the pocket or scrambling to avoid pressure, due to slow release and keep getting hit like he did by Haloti Naghta (however you spell it). 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

If you compared this game to last week, he was a better passer. The lone INT was not his fault. I expect his play to get better BUT the defense is not where they need to be at this point in time. Really disappointing.

Really?  He ****ing sucks right now.  We need him to play 4 quarters, not be a **** and decide to play in the second half after the game is almost lost.  He is clearly playing scared.  He will not run, he will not scramble, he will not plant on throws.  He is ****ing horrible right now and the main reason we are 0-2.  

 

I will give the entire offense our week one loss, Morris was horrible, RG3 was horrible and there were a lot of dropped passes.  But this week, its all on RG3 imo.  We were so lucky we were not down 31-0 after 2 quarters of play.  He had two passes blocked, and looked flat out horrible.  The only good run he had, well, that was called back because of a penalty.  Other than that, completely useless most of 3 quarters. 

 

Looks like he is protecting his career instead of playing ball, cause he hesitates so much now in the pocket.  He refuses to scramble like last year and if they are running the read option, hes refusing to keep the ball.  He's playing like he is scared to get hit and injured resulting in permanently being out of the league.  I expect this from a guy year 10 in the league, not the previous offensive rookie of the year in year two. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

DTMBro - Do you think that could have anything to do with the fact that he is coming back from knee surgery and isn't over the mental hurdles yet regarding his confidence and trust in his body and game?

Let's be serious guys. If he wasn't hurt last year and had a full healthy productive offseason and played like this, we might have a point.

[RandyHolt]

Its time for Kyle to shine.  A young up and coming OC, prove me wrong when I predict next weeks game plan will be predictable.

 

Kyle's Game Plan: 

Run Morris.

Hope that RGIII runs the read option but doesnt get injured. 

Throw some short passes to Garcon when forced to - from the pocket and pocket alone. 

And then later, crush them with play action. 

 

That is our offense. 

 

We call plays like our huge deficit is insignificant. There is no vertical game even attempted. We never even got into anything resembling hurry up despite losing big, and then making a semi comeback attempt.