The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[wrilbo67]

4 minutes ago, BurgundyMalaise said:

 

They should absolutely keep the feathers if they can. It's pretty ridiculous that people would have a problem with keeping some damn bird feathers if we can find a way to inegrate it into a new name. I'll be really disappointed if they don't have SOME kind of homage to the past, even if it's just the colors at this point.

My comment was sarcasm. I was making fun of how obsessed this thread has gotten with feathers and spears.

[mistertim]

I'm fine with just the colors. In general I can sympathize with people who want to keep more out of sentimentality (whether it's keeping a NA themed name or keeping NA imagery), but I don't really see it as a hill worth dying on. And if they DID do something like that they'd keep getting hounded, no matter the intentions, and it will eventually again come to the forefront. I feel like it's just better for all involved to make a clean break with regards to the name and theme and move forward. 

[Riggo#44]

8 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said:

 

 

I liked the part they talked about "stiffening the rather floppy nylon blade"

[RichmondRedskin88]

11 minutes ago, BurgundyMalaise said:

 

I understand that and yes, I've seen countless instances of Skins fans not being respectful and dressing like jackasses, etc. That should be their call and not soap box Tweeters. But yeah, since you brought up white corporations and others capable of helping these communities, who really has that has denounced our name and imagery? Maybe they have but has Nike donated some of its extraordinary wealth to found charities (not referencing Snyder's farce) or infuse resources for tribes in the Pacific NW?

 

Has FedEx? Has Pepsi? What has the NFL done to help these communities, the ones they now claim to have so much respect and compassion for? Also, not sure why you quoted, non-quoted the phrase honorable traits but I'd think there would be a consensus that community, tradition, loyalty, courage, fearlessness, etc. are all things non-cynics would associate with Native Americans. It doesn't matter though at this point so whatever. 

I think we can all agree Nike should be not giving anyone human rights lectures.  If I was them during this I would have kept out of it.  
 

The fact is if Snyder had put some effort into connecting with the tribes, other owners besides jerry Jones, and maybe created a organizations involving Native American team names he would look like someone proactive and would give him a lot of leverage into the franchise representing NA. As it stands he hasn’t cared about anyone but himself and so there’s no shield or protection coming.  

[dfitzo53]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I liked the part they talked about "stiffening the rather floppy nylon blade"

Related to that part, did you?

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, dfitzo53 said:

Related to that part, did you?

 

[slinky]

28 minutes ago, wrilbo67 said:

Most teams with Native American imagery are using the Redskins as a heat shield, basically saying, “why should we change? Redskins is the most offensive name there is and they’re not changing. We’re different because <insert rationale here>.”

 

I don’t see them joining an alliance with the Redskins anytime soon.

well, if we were to change to the Warriors or Braves and wish to retain NA imagery/branding, then that would change that.

[slinky]

 

they must have people calling them the Viagra Spears ? lol

[Xameil]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Maybe because for some, being the victims of a cultural and literal genocide that was still ongoing while our grandparents were alive (and is not being rectified in any way now) and then having to watch majority-white corporations make billions off the back of their "honorable traits" is truly beyond the pale. 

But....since a majority of the Native Americans support the name and the emblem...how is it honoring them by removing all of the imagery?

It being there causes discussions..sometimes intelligent sometimes not. 

My position on this whole thing is, this is an instance where a non- Native American is telling them how they should feel. Even the small group that says they are offended have also been shown to have alternative motives...

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

[Jumbo]

25 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

I think we can all agree Nike should be not giving anyone human rights lectures.  If I was them during this I would have kept out of it.  
 

The fact is if Snyder had put some effort into connecting with the tribes, other owners besides jerry Jones, and maybe created a organizations involving Native American team names he would look like someone proactive and would give him a lot of leverage into the franchise representing NA. As it stands he hasn’t cared about anyone but himself and so there’s no shield or protection coming.  

 

 

 

amigo, i am trying hard not to give you a week off from posting on the site at all for ignoring multiple mods' instructions multiple times

 

this is your last opportunity to take advantage of the patience being extended to you

 

do not post on this topic, even if we reboot the thread, for one week from today

 

as always, per rule, do not reply to this post in the thread

 

[@DCGoldPants]

1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

 

Didn't find it offensive. But I'm a white jewish kid from the burbs of DC. Like BLM, I could never imagine what some folks have gone through. I could never walk a mile in their shows. I never suffered.

 

On this topic, I've just looked at the world and decided that this isn't something I want to fight over anymore. Just like how I think UnWise Mike is an asshole for telling minorities what they should be offended over. I don't feel I should tell anybody what they shouldn't be offended over. I'll never throw away my Skins gear. But I do feel it's time to change.

[dfitzo53]

2 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

Fair question.

 

I took a Native American History class in college and wrote a paper about the controversy.  This was over a decade ago.  I wrote that I believed the name should probably be changed, but also that I was very emotionally tied to being a fan of the team and my heart wasn't in advocating for change.

 

About 5-6 years ago I intentionally bought a B&G hat that says "DC" instead of "Redskins" so I can specifically rock the colors and represent the city without having to wear a name that is hurtful to many.

 

I do still own my old jerseys, although I don't wear them except for Sean Taylor's Pro Bowl jersey.

 

I'm also not about to tell people what to do with their own clothes.

[mcsluggo]

Whatever the genesis of the name/logo/imagery, and how it got to today.......... its definitively time to ditch the Redskins name.....  

 

 

... But can we prioritize here?     Get rid of Snyder, and THEN get rid of the Redskins.

 

in THAT case there would be a half of a hair of a snowballs chance in hell of the organization getting the transition right.

 

 

(i know... its a fantasy.... but we all need our dreams in 2020)

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

spear spear spear spear spear spear spear spear

 

 

 

[BurgundyMalaise]

I'll continue to wear my Redskins hats from time to time because I love the colors and logo, more so than the name. I'm not someone who repped the Skins all the time anyways anymore. I try not to be associated with incompetence, if at all possible. 

[luckydevil]

31 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

I actually wrote a paper on this topic in high school in the early 2000's and argued the name should be changed. And yes, I have not bought any merchandise in over 20 years. To be fair, I bet I am a rare case.

[Stefanskins]

43 minutes ago, BurgundyMalaise said:

They should absolutely keep the feathers if they can. It's pretty ridiculous that people would have a problem with keeping some damn bird feathers if we can find a way to inegrate it into a new name. I'll be really disappointed if they don't have SOME kind of homage to the past, even if it's just the colors at this point.

Spears have been decorated with tassels and feathers since the Paleolithic times, many many tens of thousands of years before Native Americans crossed the Bering Straights...It's part of our collective human nature...

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

26 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

 

I don't find the name offensive, but I can see why others do and respect their opinions.  I'm for the name change not because of some moral high ground but because I think this whole franchise needs a refresh.  And while the best refresh would be for Snyder to sell the team, that doesn't appear to be on the horizon.  So a new name, new stadium, new coach....I'll take what I can get.

 

I've also stopped wearing a lot of team related gear in general.  That goes for my football team and baseball team.  Maybe it's just me but I think adults of a certain age look kinda silly wearing team gear and jerseys.  

[Playaction2Sanders]

32 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

Didn't find it offensive. But I'm a white jewish kid from the burbs of DC. Like BLM, I could never imagine what some folks have gone through. I could never walk a mile in their shows. I never suffered.

 

On this topic, I've just looked at the world and decided that this isn't something I want to fight over anymore. Just like how I think UnWise Mike is an asshole for telling minorities what they should be offended over. I don't feel I should tell anybody what they shouldn't be offended over. I'll never throw away my Skins gear. But I do feel it's time to change.

 

Yea but with this change I just feel like I'm being told my fandom for my team was wrong the entire time.. I have to throw away all those decades of fandom away in favor of a new direction.  There are cities that lost their teams and got expansion teams, and had to start fresh. I don't know.  We can't have throwback days anymore when the league cerebrates an anniversary and wants teams to bust out old colors.  Its gonna be awkward bringing back former players to talk about the team and how that conversation is going to go when you reference the team name.. How do we celebrate the team going forward with pregame ceremonies that have to do with the past?? All I think is, whatever it is it was wrong.. I was wrong. And I just don't feel emotionally invested in the team anymore because I feel its no longer mine.. It's theirs.

 

All the team name suggestions make my head spin, 4 suggestions for soccer team names including one womens soccer team name. Name me a fanbase who'd like to change their name to a womens soccer team name?? Boring names like Generals, Commanders, Federals and I never liked Senators..Retrievers?? You wanna name us after Comet from Full House?? Greyhounds after the Bus line??? Wolf Pack? There are no wolves in DC. Red Tails: while their contributions are noted in the war all I think about is the freedoms they fought for weren't given to them when they returned home.  Warriors?? Barely any creativity with the name change that attempts to shed the native american imagery that still maintains the football aspect of the team.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 hours ago, -JB- said:

I agree.  
 

Here’s what we are up against.. Another excerpt but this time from Erik Brady’s column in USA Today.

 

“But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the team jettisons all Native American imagery and still chooses Warriors. Sorry, that won’t work either: Some Washington fans would see it as an invitation to continue dressing up as play Indians — more white guys in war paint.”

 

Oh, you mean like Chief Zee? 🤔

 

How many black people do you think have worn mock Native American garb at Redskins games, by comparison to white people? How many white people do you see at Redskins games (back when the stadium actually had fans) by comparison to black people?

[Jumbo]

@Dan T.

 

i dodged so many "britney" options on my turn  

 

 

per (thread title) topic

 

 

i stated my personal take some pages back and am not into multi-repetition of the same views every time a new poster is in the thread and creates an op to do so

 

but i will add that now my concern is that in traditional snyder-redskins fashion, the handling of the change will go on to be more stumbling and inept than it will be smooth, smart, and orderly

 

want to be very wrong, of course

 

 

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

How many black people do you think have worn mock Native American garb at Redskins games, by comparison to white people? How many white people do you see at Redskins games (back when the stadium actually had fans) by comparison to black people?

You have been a E.S. member since 2006 and according to your profile a Redskins fan since 1995, Im not picking on you when i ask this is something that has been eating away at you all these years ? Thats terrible if the answer is yes. But to the other gentlemans point Chief Zee is the first person that comes to mind for any Redskins fan when you think about someone in full "Redskins get up" just sayin. When i think of White people dressed up at a skins game i dont think of any one culturally appropriating , I think of these guys, maybe you are too young or haven't been to enough games though 

 

 

 

 

[wrilbo67]

31 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I have a question for Those of you who support the name change and find it offensive. Before the past year or so errr before 2016  , before  Kap & NFL flag kneeling,  did ya'll  just suffer in silence all these years ? Because the truth of the matter is some of you who are most adamant on "doing whats right" never made so much as a peep in regards to your desire for the Redskins to rebrand as something else, something less offensive, Can all of you honestly sit here and tell me not a single one of you own Redskins merchandise with the native American logo?  Or did you just become enlightened in the wake of the recent social issues effecting the country ?

 

  Just a honest question expecting honest answers. 

FWIW, I distinctly remember sitting at the Orioles-Tigers ALDS game 3 in 2014 with a friend and the topic of the name of the team came up and we both agreed it’s time to go. (I only bring up the ALDS because I can pinpoint the exact day this conversation happened based on that.)
 

I still have Redskins merchandise but living out of market I never wear it anymore because I feel self-conscious about it. I think I have a fleece from 1997, a Darrell green jersey from 2000 and a mid-2000s hoodie.

If I do buy new merchandise I pretty much look for something with the script R on it. Even on game days I’ll opt for something burgundy and gold as opposed to actual team merchandise.

 

“Suffering in silence,” is a strong term but I’ve been in favor of changing the name for a while. The super-last straw for me (even after 2014) was the trademark lawsuit the team filed in 2015 where instead of claiming that “Redskins,” wasn’t offensive, they claimed it was ok because “Take yo panties off,” was a registered trademark for a clothing line. At that point the teams name was indefensible to me.  Honoring the bravery of native Americans while hiring lawyers to compare them to “Midget-Man Condoms,” just didn’t fly.

 

Again, I don’t live in DMV so it’s not a topic that comes up often. I did see how poorly my alma mater handled getting rid of Chief Illiniwek in 2007 so that definitely influenced my feeling that the team should get ahead of the issue even a decade ago. But the 2015 lawsuit was the real kicker for me.

 

article about the lawsuit: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2015/11/03/team-redskins-not-only-offensive-name-trademark-proection/75115730/

[Mr. Sinister]

Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

You have been a E.S. member since 2006 and according to your profile a Redskins fan since 1995, Im not picking on you when i ask this is something that has been eating away at you all these years ? Thats terrible if the answer is yes.

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what you're  trying to ask me here. Could you elaborate?

 

Quote

But to the other gentlemans point Chief Zee is the first person that comes to mind for any Redskins fan when you think about someone in full "Redskins get up" just sayin. 

 

Correct. One black man is the most prominent figure that pops into your head when you think of Skins fans in mock Native getups. One. Black. Man.

 

But when you see shots of the crowds (along with the racial disparity in ticket purchases to pro sporting events), and think of how far and wide the fanbase is (or used to be), it's predominantly white, yes?