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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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BY ES STAFF: NEW OP FOR THE THREAD (with apologies to the original op, alaskins, for the intrusion---keeping his original below in the quote box)


per this reboot--the cat herding here was very problematic and rather than banning numerous members for the lack of staying on topic, we're going to do this to make it easier on moderating, even if at the cost of keeping the topic more focused (sorry to those actually able to regulate themselves)


so talk about spears and logos or anything connected to "the change" in this reboot (including maybe taking in account how little real info on process/details we actually have as you pontificate on them)




mods might ban or restrict any poster as they see fit without any further warnings or explanations or guidance


it's going to be all on the poster :) 




The attack on the Redskins’ name continues in Washington.

According to Politico.com, three former FCC Commissioners (along with others) have sent a letter to Redskins owner Daniel Snyder explaining that a case could be made that the team’s name is indecent.

“It is impermissible under law that the FCC would condone, or that broadcasters would use, obscene pornographic language on live television,” states the letter signed in part by former FCC Chairman Reed Hunt and former Commissioners Jonathan Adelstein and Nicholas Johnson. “This medium uses government-owned airwaves in exchange for an understanding that it will promote the public interest. Similarly, it is inappropriate for broadcasters to use racial epithets as part of normal, everyday reporting.”

More at: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/05/three-former-fcc-commissioners-claim-redskins-is-indecent/

I just saw an article on the front page of CNN as well bashing the name. This cant be a coincidence. 


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Where's the proof? Still have yet to see primary sources showing Redskins was or still is used as a racial slur.

Still have yet to see any action taken on the Buffalo Bills, the Cleveland Indians and their mascot, the Buccaneers, Raiders, and Pirates who honor rapists/murderers/thieves, or any requirement for the entire state of Oklahoma to change it's name since it means "red man."

Plus, the letter quotes UnWise Mike in all his ignorant glory, and again sites no actual primary sources as evidence, so still no actual evidence other than "red" and "skin" must be racist, but let's ignore that Native Americans created the name as an identifier for themselves.

Here's what I think about the FCC:


Edited by elkabong82
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We need an "official" Redskin name foo foo thread for these. :ols:

I agree about the thread. The media and the political correctness avengers will just not let this go. I hope Snyder does not give in. Plus, shouldn't the fact that the Redskins are the name of a private organization, not public have something to do with Snyder being able to keep the name basically whatever he wants? Imho, if Redskins is a negative and racist word, then so is the name of the Chiefs. I have never heard Redskin used as a racist term, but I have heard Chief used as one. It all depends on usage and intent. You can throw " sugar time fun clouds" into a phrase and attempt a racist insult.:2cents:

---------- Post added April-5th-2013 at 04:59 PM ----------

Everything offends someone. It's just a name. Things offend me, but I don't go crying and asking the government to step in so they can taken continue to restrict more of our freedoms.

Thumbs up.

Edited by Braxford
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Here we go again. We should all agree to make a rule on this sight to NEVER discuss this topic again. Good Lord. It's not going to go away and there will always be someone complaining about it. We are the Washington Redskins - period, end of story. I get a headache every time I log on and see a new thread on this beaten to death topic. Can someone make it go away? lol.

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“XXXskin is the most derogatory name a Native American can be called. It is an unequivocal racial slur,” the letter states. “As the Washington Post’s UnWise Mike pointed out, ‘America wouldn’t stand for a team called the Blackskins — or the Mandingos, the Brothers, the Yellowskins, insert your ethnic minority here.’”

Anytime anyone gives this argument, you automatically know they haven't thought their stance through very well. It's one of the more asinine and ignorant arguments you can make, and three former FCC Commissioners thought it was valid and intelligent lol....

There are actually 5 arguments opponents to the Redskins name make that should immediately identify them as people who know very little facts and base their viewpoints off of what "sounds good":

1) The "How would you feel if they were called the Blackskins?" argument (the one above). Redskin does not equate to Brownskin, Yellowskin, Blackskin, or any other moronic example along those lines. It's actually rather insulting to apply a "one size fits all" approach towards the very real histories of different racial groups and the terms/names that have been applied to them in efforts to control and subjugate. It's like those who insist(ed) in calling Bush and Obama "Hitler" and likening America to Nazi Germany.

2) The "Redskin comes from native Americans being scalped" myth. Nobody who repeats this nonsense has ever actually done research on the name...they just repeat talking points.

3) "Redskin is an unequivocal racial slur" stance. The reality is more along the lines of "If you really squint enough and let your mind bend in certain directions, you can probably imagine a scenario in which someone would call a native American a 'Redskin' in an attempt to insult them."

4) "The majority of Native Americans find the name offensive" stance. Taking this stance ignores the numerous native American schools who use the name 'Redskins' for their team/mascot, the very real history of how the Skins got their helmet logo, the actual origin of the term, the actual reasons for naming the team "Redskins", and a whole host of other aspects, facts and issues concerning the name...and instead have decided that a poll taken last Tuesday automatically trumps every argument and stance.

5) "Times have changed, people are offended by the name now" argument. This one pretty much says the only thing that matters is how we feel today. Only, that's NOT the only thing that matters.

Anyone uses any of those arguments above, I automatically know they're clueless on the subject.

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I can't understand those (primarily Causcasian0 who claim the name "redskin" isn't offensive. Yet they take offense to those who suggest renaming the team. Change the name and let's move on. Call em what you want-they'll also be the Skins to me.

Only ironically, we can't "call em what we want" if we follow your advice lol...

---------- Post added April-5th-2013 at 03:29 PM ----------

And, yes, the Wizards should have stayed the Bullets! :mad: :mad:

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It's only a matter of time before the name is changed. The groundswell of voices grows every year, and eventually they will effect the change. Might be 5 years, might be 10, but it will happen.

I don't find the name offensive at all, but I would yield to a majority of Native Americans coming forward and saying it's offensive to and hurts them. But we haven't seen that at all. Let that happen, and I would be more inclined to accept a name change.

That said, I don't think there's anyone here who would say, "Hey, look at that Redskin over there" if they saw an American Indian. If nothing else, it's a very outdated term and it does not at all feel "right" to use in modern parlance.

But man, I still love it when it comes to this football team, and as someone who became a Redskin fan BECAUSE OF my love of Native American culture when I was a boy, I don't feel guilty about that fact.

As I say, the UnWise Mikes of the world can rant all they want. I want to hear the voice of the people the name supposedly offends so much and hear it loudly. Then I'll look at the issue more intently from their perspective.

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I want to hear the voice of the people the name supposedly offends so much and hear it loudly. Then I'll look at the issue more intently from their perspective.

Only problem is, that's not always gonna yeild useful and valid information, either lol...

For 'zample, written by a Native American:

Dear Editor; It was brought to my attention that some were asking if the term "redskin" was really offensive to Indians and that they would like to hear from us on this subject. Well, here you are...I am Blackfoot, Cherokee and Choctaw...and yes, the term is extremely offensive to me. Let me explain why. Back not so long ago, when there was a bounty on the heads of the Indian people...the trappers would bring in Indian scalps along with the other skins that they had managed to trap or shoot. These scalps brought varying prices as did the skins of the animals. The trappers would tell the trading post owner or whoever it was that he was dealing with, that he had 2 bearskins, a couple of beaver skins...and a few scalps. Well, the term "scalp" offended the good Christian women of the community and they asked that another term be found to describe these things. So, the trappers and hunters began using the term "redskin"...they would tell the owner that they had bearskin, deer skins....and "redskins." The term came from the bloody mess that one saw when looking at the scalp...thus the term "red"...skin because it was the "skin" of an "animal" just like the others that they had...so, it became "redskins". So, you see when we see or hear that term...we don't see a football team...we don't see a game being played...we don't see any "honor"...we see the bloody pieces of scalps that were hacked off of our men, women and even our children...we hear the screams as our people were killed...and "skinned" just like animals. So, yes, Mr./Ms. Editor...you can safely say that the term is considered extremely offensive.

The fact that her belief in the origin of "Redskin" is 99% hooey should render her viewpoint mostly irrelevant, regardless of whether or not she's " Blackfoot, Cherokee and Choctaw". But it won't. Her voice and viewpoint--regardless of how misguided it may be and how flawed a foundation it is based upon--will be given all the credence in the world.

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Michigan state Spartans is offensive to me! They should change it as they have no association towards the Hellenic people

Not to mention the ancient Greeks (of all stripes) were pederasts. So anybody that's not a member of NAMBLA should be offended by any team naming themselves after any group of ancient Hellenic peoples.

And the Trojans? Really, you're going to name your team after a condom? Please, I demand it be changed. And who cares if it meant something different back when they were founded, I think it means something different NOW, so I demand it be changed because shut up, that's why.

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5) "Times have changed, people are offended by the name now" argument. This one pretty much says the only thing that matters is how we feel today. Only, that's NOT the only thing that matters.

Anyone uses any of those arguments above, I automatically know they're clueless on the subject.

Number five in your list is ridiculous. The present outweighs the past whe it comes to language. If times change and the word means something else the history becomes an interesting bit of trivia. I agree that it's not the ONLY thing that matters but current meaning outweighs everything significantly. I'm not sure there is even room for a debate there. I can't think if anyone using an accepted but of hate speech and justifying it by rattling off some history and be taken seriously by anyone.

The question with the redskins name is, is it hate speech? I don't think that's been proven.

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