Kilmer17's roadmap to fix the GOP

[Stadium-Armory]

I think many in the middle are looking for someone who is fiscally conservative, but lacks the 'crazy' or religious fundamentalism. Christie seems to fit that bill. I don't care if he's fat.

Add: I wouldn't have voted for him, but I think he would appeal to more in the middle that Mittens.

[Burgold]

I think many in the middle are looking for someone who is fiscally conservative, but lacks the 'crazy' or religious fundamentalism. Christie seems to fit that bill. I don't care if he's fat.

Add: I wouldn't have voted for him, but I think he would appeal to more in the middle that Mittens.

The question with Christie right now is how much of the positive glow is about Sandy and bipartisanship. It could be a bit of the Guiliani effect. That, and I think people are honestly sick of the partisanship. They want better.

Mind you, I heard whispers that people wanted Christie to run for President this year, but didn't think he could make it... so, I'm not sure what I'm saying is right.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Not backing Bowles-Simpson was a huge strategic error by the Republicans. When a bi-partisan, independent committee says you're 90% right, you have to take it and run. Instead they push the Ryan budget plan, which was easily dismissed by Democrats as a ideological document. Democrats would have been neutered had they pushed Bowles-Simpson.

[MattFancy]

I think Christie would be an interesting choice. But, I do agree Burgold on the Gulliani effect. I think the GOP will win in 2016 because I don't think the Dems will have a great candidate then. Could be wrong, but the GOP seems to have Christie and Rubio waiting in the wings.

[Stadium-Armory]

Not backing Bowles-Simpson was a huge strategic error by the Republicans. When a bi-partisan, independent committee says you're 90% right, you have to take it and run. Instead they push the Ryan budget plan, which was easily dismissed by Democrats as a ideological document. Democrats would have been neutered had they pushed Bowles-Simpson.

Agreed. This made it seem like they were more interested in tanking the economy to (try and) make the Democrats and the President look bad. It might be good for them to shed that aura, and grow up. Worry less about doing whatever you can to oppose the Democrats and be an adult and you'll probably get more respect from the middle.

[Prosperity]

It's not that this isn't a good direction, but there is a reason why the GOP uses abortion, gay marriage, and immigration as scare tactics. I'd be amazed if the GOP can all of a sudden have candidates that can win primaries on a platform of immigration reform. The "Base" doesn't want that. Just ask Rick Perry. In the short run, libertarian light candidates won't get out of the primary (at least not in the near term) and in the long run if they do then that will open the door for Dem in-roads in the South through economic populism.

[nonniey]

I think Christie would be an interesting choice. But, I do agree Burgold on the Gulliani effect. I think the GOP will win in 2016 because I don't think the Dems will have a great candidate then. Could be wrong, but the GOP seems to have Christie and Rubio waiting in the wings.

Depends on how bad things get over the next four years. But if Republican couldn't defeat a President in the position Obama was in, I just don't see them winning unless the country is is in catastrophically bad way. The Demographic worm has turned and until the Republicans can adjust for that, they won't win national elections.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Christie is radioactive with the wingnuts right now, and probably will be in 2016. Right now, the "base" thinks Christie cost Mitt the election (obviously not true but they think that). Rubio? Are they ready to elect a "brown" person?

I could really see Santorum or Bachmann or someone crazy like that winning the 2016 GOP primary.

[Duckus]

Also, another thing to add. Stop mocking science. That is not working.

[SkinInsite]

1- Stop being the party of stupid. You dont get to nominate Senatorial candidates like Christine Odonnel, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller (The GOP got LUCKY that Alaska has smart people voting in the general), Mourdock, Akin etc etc etc and expect to win. Crazy people scare sane people. Even if they agree with the overwhelming majority of their views, if a candidate scares voters, they wont win. It's time that GOP candidates in primaries start calling out the stupid scary ones.

2- Abortion. It's over. You lost this battle years ago. And the party already knows this. You know how I know this? Because if they really wanted to, they would have legislated it away when they had the chances. (MULTIPLE). It's a stupid, insignificant issue. But one that about 25 percent of the women vote feels is the MOST important. It's time to adopt the Clinton mantra- It should be safe, legal and rare. ANd for the love of all that is holy, no male GOP candidate shou;d ever use the word "rape" in a sentence again.

3- Immigration- If Romney matches McCains numbers with Hispanics, he wins. If he matched Bush's numbers, he wins a landslide. Reagan understood this. Why is it that the party that idolizes Reagan refuses to follow him? It's time to accept the consequences. The GOP should come out tomorrow with a proposal of immediate amnesty, and make their own dream act even farther to "the left".

4- Continue to fight like hell on spending and taxes. It's the one area that they consistantly win across the board. But dont be stupid (again). If you can win small battles, win them. The GOP should take Simpson Bowles in it's entirety to the POTUS and beat him over the head with it. Warts and all. It's not perfect, but it's a start. And if they FULLY stand behind it, there is no way the President and Dems could win a fight against it.

The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important.

Will someone who espouses those ideals can even get out of the primaries?

[No Excuses]

I could really see Santorum or Bachmann or someone crazy like that winning the 2016 GOP primary.

Absolutely. The GOP primary process will not allow any substantial ideological reform.

[Jumbo]

I agree with your outline, and it's a great OP, K17. Between you and SHF's second post, it's hard to see a R missing if those changes were to come to pass. In fact, as we often say in here, if you and SHF were running I'd have wanted to vote for you two.

[zoony]

I pretty much agree with the OP

[Jumbo]

Also, another thing to add. Stop mocking at science. That is not working.

Good addition. Cease being the party of the troglodyte.

[DjTj]

1- Stop being the party of stupid. You dont get to nominate Senatorial candidates like Christine Odonnel, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller (The GOP got LUCKY that Alaska has smart people voting in the general), Mourdock, Akin etc etc etc and expect to win. Crazy people scare sane people. Even if they agree with the overwhelming majority of their views, if a candidate scares voters, they wont win. It's time that GOP candidates in primaries start calling out the stupid scary ones.

2- Abortion. It's over. You lost this battle years ago. And the party already knows this. You know how I know this? Because if they really wanted to, they would have legislated it away when they had the chances. (MULTIPLE). It's a stupid, insignificant issue. But one that about 25 percent of the women vote feels is the MOST important. It's time to adopt the Clinton mantra- It should be safe, legal and rare. ANd for the love of all that is holy, no male GOP candidate shou;d ever use the word "rape" in a sentence again.

3- Immigration- If Romney matches McCains numbers with Hispanics, he wins. If he matched Bush's numbers, he wins a landslide. Reagan understood this. Why is it that the party that idolizes Reagan refuses to follow him? It's time to accept the consequences. The GOP should come out tomorrow with a proposal of immediate amnesty, and make their own dream act even farther to "the left".

4- Continue to fight like hell on spending and taxes. It's the one area that they consistantly win across the board. But dont be stupid (again). If you can win small battles, win them. The GOP should take Simpson Bowles in it's entirety to the POTUS and beat him over the head with it. Warts and all. It's not perfect, but it's a start. And if they FULLY stand behind it, there is no way the President and Dems could win a fight against it.

The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important.

This is great as an internet Republican platform. But in my experience, internet Republicans are very different from real-life Republicans.

1- People in real life are stupid. This is not exclusive to Republicans.

2- 72% of Republicans are Pro-Life. And an increasing number of Americans are Pro-Life. This issue is not going away, and if anything, the Republican Party is going to continue becoming even more aggressive on this issue (by trying to take away exceptions in the case of rape, etc.). Real-life Republican voters want no abortions with no exceptions. I do not see this changing.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/154838/pro-choice-americans-record-low.aspx

3- I think there is some opportunity for immigration reform in the next four years, and the Republican Congress just needs to cooperate. But it will only happen through a compromise where Obama can claim some credit, and I am not sure that Boehner will go along with that. The Republicans had their chance to claim this issue during the Bush administration, and they failed. All they can do now is take it off the table by making it a bipartisan issue.

4- Grover Norquist is preventing the Republican Party from agreeing to any sane budget measures.

What you say sounds great, but I don't see the Republican Party getting there anytime soon. I personally find it more comfortable being in the Democratic Party (giving me #2 and #3) while trying to push for more fiscal sanity (#4). There is no way to escape #1.

[Corcaigh]

William Jefferson Clinton would like a word with you.

There's a big difference between Clinton, who ranged from being overweight to low levels of obesity when he was POTUS, and Christie is deep, deep into obesity.

Elections are won on small differences. His weight is a punchline for many people.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

1- Stop being the party of stupid. You dont get to nominate Senatorial candidates like Christine Odonnel, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller (The GOP got LUCKY that Alaska has smart people voting in the general), Mourdock, Akin etc etc etc and expect to win. Crazy people scare sane people. Even if they agree with the overwhelming majority of their views, if a candidate scares voters, they wont win. It's time that GOP candidates in primaries start calling out the stupid scary ones.

2- Abortion. It's over. You lost this battle years ago. And the party already knows this. You know how I know this? Because if they really wanted to, they would have legislated it away when they had the chances. (MULTIPLE). It's a stupid, insignificant issue. But one that about 25 percent of the women vote feels is the MOST important. It's time to adopt the Clinton mantra- It should be safe, legal and rare. ANd for the love of all that is holy, no male GOP candidate shou;d ever use the word "rape" in a sentence again.

3- Immigration- If Romney matches McCains numbers with Hispanics, he wins. If he matched Bush's numbers, he wins a landslide. Reagan understood this. Why is it that the party that idolizes Reagan refuses to follow him? It's time to accept the consequences. The GOP should come out tomorrow with a proposal of immediate amnesty, and make their own dream act even farther to "the left".

4- Continue to fight like hell on spending and taxes. It's the one area that they consistantly win across the board. But dont be stupid (again). If you can win small battles, win them. The GOP should take Simpson Bowles in it's entirety to the POTUS and beat him over the head with it. Warts and all. It's not perfect, but it's a start. And if they FULLY stand behind it, there is no way the President and Dems could win a fight against it.

The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important.

I don't understand why you'd stick with number 4 so harshly.

Yes, it makes sense to WANT to lower taxes. But do it in a responsible way. I guess what I'm saying is stop the Grover Norquist BS that all taxes are absurd and a violation of your rights as an American. Get real. Advocate for smaller taxes when it makes sense.

The GOP did not win the taxing and spending issue during this election. Most Americans think the top wealth bracket does not pay enough and they have unfair tax advantages. And as part of that top bracket, I agree with most Americans. Get real and we can get on board.

[Larry]

1- Stop being the party of stupid. You dont get to nominate Senatorial candidates like Christine Odonnel, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller (The GOP got LUCKY that Alaska has smart people voting in the general), Mourdock, Akin etc etc etc and expect to win. Crazy people scare sane people. Even if they agree with the overwhelming majority of their views, if a candidate scares voters, they wont win. It's time that GOP candidates in primaries start calling out the stupid scary ones.

2- Abortion. It's over. You lost this battle years ago. And the party already knows this. You know how I know this? Because if they really wanted to, they would have legislated it away when they had the chances. (MULTIPLE). It's a stupid, insignificant issue. But one that about 25 percent of the women vote feels is the MOST important. It's time to adopt the Clinton mantra- It should be safe, legal and rare. ANd for the love of all that is holy, no male GOP candidate shou;d ever use the word "rape" in a sentence again.

3- Immigration- If Romney matches McCains numbers with Hispanics, he wins. If he matched Bush's numbers, he wins a landslide. Reagan understood this. Why is it that the party that idolizes Reagan refuses to follow him? It's time to accept the consequences. The GOP should come out tomorrow with a proposal of immediate amnesty, and make their own dream act even farther to "the left".

4- Continue to fight like hell on spending and taxes. It's the one area that they consistantly win across the board. But dont be stupid (again). If you can win small battles, win them. The GOP should take Simpson Bowles in it's entirety to the POTUS and beat him over the head with it. Warts and all. It's not perfect, but it's a start. And if they FULLY stand behind it, there is no way the President and Dems could win a fight against it.

The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important.

I'd say your #4 needs to be #1.

If Obama, or a Republican, comes out with a deficit reduction plan that involves some compromise (I will observe that he actually has: A deficit reduction plan that is 10:1 in spending cuts to tax increases is one HECK of a compromise. IMO, a 50-50 proposal is a compromise) instantly becomes The Most Interesting Person in Washington.

And, it's a pretty safe bet (if we can avoid intentionally dynamiting the country) that the deficit WILL go down. Face it, the primary reason it's so big, is because the economy sucks. IMO, as the body of the economy naturally heals itself, the deficit will go down on it's own.

If, prior to that, somebody has proposed a bipartisan deficit reduction plan, then he (and his Party) will get credit for the reduction, and for the economy getting better.

IMO, the #1 issue in the election is the deficit/spending/taxation thing. And I think it's a safe bet that it will be, for the next four years.

[Wrong Direction]

I probably have a ton to say on this topic, but I have to run out and haven't had a chance to read the answers here. However, there are three examples of what I think the R's need to do which are readily apparent.

1. Take a pro-American immigration reform stance. Rubio's trying to think this through. It's much easier than people are giving it credit for. Support immigration in places that definitely need the workers (e.g., migrant farm workers, scientists). Try to limit big time in places where we have unemployed workers who are competing for the same jobs. This biases in favor of poor whites/blacks/others who need a real pathway out of poverty that doesn't start and finish with a broken education system.

2. Make your case to everyone. It's rumored that Paul Ryan wanted to go into black neighborhoods and make the conservative case, but Romney's folks said no. I'll never run for office, but if I did this would be one of major campaign themes. It's absolutely stupid that we don't appear desperate for Black votes. That doesn't mean you cave. It means that you show people that you're genuinely trying. Give them a reason to listen. When they tell you to f-off, come back again, and again, and again. You will earn respect if you work for it and you're genuine. People here don't necessarily like Paul Ryan, but I do and I believe he's a really genuine guy.

3. Chris Christie's theme at the Republican convention: Respect. Tell people the truth. It won't get everyone to agree with you, but stop taking poll-driven positions. Tax reform, health care reform, immigration reform, education reform, tort reform (not just medical), importance of the family to society. There are so many ways that you can treat people with respect and thus earn theirs.

My last thought before I go...I think the under 30 voters are the beginning of the end of our religious society. Well, the baby boomers were the beginning, but they're being channeled in earnest now. They're not bad people (under 30's), but they will recoil against people who make young girls out to be killers or gay people out to be society ruiners. Society ruiners are deadbeat dads. Killers do so out hatred. You can be anti-abortion and pro-family without being anti good people. Reconcile that. Speak about it, with respect, and you can change the dynamics.

[Larry]

Not minorities. Hispanics. I dont think the GOP has any chance of ever getting more than 10-12 percent of the black vote. No matter what they say or do.

Well, after what the Rs have stood for, the last 40 years, it's sure going to take a lot of time.

Never is a long time.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 11:39 AM ----------

I HIGHLY doubt we see such drastic changes so quickly. Maybe the GOP 12-16 years from now.

Based on what I'm hearing/reading on social media networks, other websites and news channels, the right is already blaming Romney and saying he wasn't conservative enough. What's stopping them from briefly transitioning into a period of more far right ideology?

Oh, I think you're right.

I think that in the alternate reality that the R's live in, what this election said was that the "liberal in everything but name" guy from Ted Kennedy Land whose biggest accomplishment was passing Obamacare didn't win, but that all of the "we can win by holding the country hostage and disenfranchising people" people got reelected.

(I wish I could be 100% certain that they're wrong. My big fear is that they almost won with that strategy.)

[The Evil Genius]

The sad part, is that the GOP is likely to revert back to the days of nominating a true conservative. Especially since some see Romney and McCain as moderates.

Really? Moderates?

Here's the truth. Neither of them are moderates. And they had to become even more conservative because of the powers that be. And that's suppose to appeal to the middle, how, exactly?

When the GOP realizes that the base will always vote for the base, and that the middle is truly where the elections are won and lost, then perhaps they will nominate a candidate that actually appeals to the middle. Until then, I don't see much hopey change for them.

[Mad Mike]

Although always an independent, I have also always leaned right. And I can tell you from my standpoint, I will vote D until the libertarians crawl back under the rocks they came from.

The answer for republicans is not to move farther from the center but closer. By all means, bring some of those libertarian values but use them in a more rational, moderate way. Cut back on government waste and spending where it makes sense, not by gutting everything in sight. Killing Big Bird isn't going to do the slightest thing to reduce the debt. It's just going to hurt a non commercialized news and edutainment source that has constantly returned more than the governments investment. And unless you truly want to divide this country into the haves and have nots and see it ended in civil war, you embrace those Christian values so many republicans claim and accept that it is in everyones best interest to help the poor rather than demonize them as freeloaders.

But while I'm criticizing the R's let me lay one on the D's..... It's time to start making some deeper spending cuts. Not tea party sized cuts but cuts just the same. The divided nature of this election should send a signal to both parties. If you really want to impress this independent, stop fighting for votes and arguing and start fighting for the nation by cooperating. [/RANT]

[Larry]

I think it's simple. Move to be more socially liberal while maintaining their fiscal conservative agenda.

Continuing down the socially conservative path is what is destroying them.

My problem is that the GOP doesn't have a "fiscal conservative agenda".

There wasn't a single GOP candidate for President who wasn't promising another huge tax cut on the rich.

What the GOP has is a "pass big tax cuts, increase military spending, act surprised when the deficit goes up, and demand that somebody else get rid of SS and Medicare, because of this deficit that somehow got here" agenda.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 11:47 AM ----------

Absolutely. The GOP primary process will not allow any substantial ideological reform.

And I suspect that, after the Paulites tried to hijack the Party, the GOP is going to change the rules to make the primaries even more into wingnut-land.

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

Fixing the GOP? . . . I don't think anyone mentioned the "tea party", in your OP you said crazy people scare sane people. The tea party scares me.

[@DCGoldPants]

after last night I thought of starting a "Relaunch The Bull Moose Party" thread. Why? Because even though Brit Hume says this country is center-right. I think when he says "country", I think he meant his viewers....because what I see is a country that is socially liberal and fiscally moderate. Maybe I should still start the thread.

anyway..... Kilmer, after 2008 the Tea Party appeared (maybe they were rumbling before), and a lot of Taxcut and Spend elected officials became born-again fiscal conservatives. In 2010 during an off year they swept and won a bunch of elections. My question to you is......will they try the same thing again? Will they shift more away from the center even if you take 100% of their supporters, its still not a majority in this country anymore. I see your roadmap. But what do you feel they will do?