Kilmer17's roadmap to fix the GOP

[Jumbo]

1- People in real life are stupid. This is not exclusive to Republicans.

How disappointingly Jumbo-like of you. :pfft:

[SkinsHokieFan]

“The Republican coalition is the same coalition as it’s been for years: culturally conservative, small government, lower taxes, pro-family, pro-life and strong national defense,” said Gary Bauer, president of American Values, an evangelical group. “I don’t know of anything in that agenda that we would want to drop.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/republicans-face-murky-political-future-in-increasingly-diverse-us/2012/11/07/3b71e4f2-28e7-11e2-96b6-8e6a7524553f_story.html

[AsburySkinsFan]

The sad part, is that the GOP is likely to revert back to the days of nominating a true conservative. Especially since some see Romney and McCain as moderates.

Really? Moderates?

Here's the truth. Neither of them are moderates. And they had to become even more conservative because of the powers that be. And that's suppose to appeal to the middle, how, exactly?

When the GOP realizes that the base will always vote for the base, and that the middle is truly where the elections are won and lost, then perhaps they will nominate a candidate that actually appeals to the middle. Until then, I don't see much hopey change for them.

I think the leadership gets that, heck even Dick Morris said as much, but the leadership can't get those canidates past their primary voters. I can't imagine their frustration.

[Corcaigh]

The sad part, is that the GOP is likely to revert back to the days of nominating a true conservative. Especially since some see Romney and McCain as moderates.

Really? Moderates?

Here's the truth. Neither of them are moderates. And they had to become even more conservative because of the powers that be. And that's suppose to appeal to the middle, how, exactly?

When the GOP realizes that the base will always vote for the base, and that the middle is truly where the elections are won and lost, then perhaps they will nominate a candidate that actually appeals to the middle. Until then, I don't see much hopey change for them.

Charles Krauthammer called Romney a North Eastern liberal last night. If you define your campaign strategy around a 'middle' that far to the right, a significant portion of the actual middle won't be interested in you.

[The Evil Genius]

I think the leadership gets that, heck even Dick Morris said as much, but the leadership can't get those canidates past their primary voters. I can't imagine their frustration.

Perhaps.

But for a party whose famous for getting their members to lockstep on every single position, how they cannot do what's best for them at the state primaries (supposing they actually do know what it is), is baffling.

Until the Huntsmans and Christies of the world are allowed to win (and not have to radically change or move to the far right after winning the nomination), the GOP will continue to epically fail at the national level, imho.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 09:36 AM ----------

Charles Krauthammer called Romney a North Eastern liberal last night. If you define your campaign strategy around a 'middle' that far to the right, a significant portion of the actual middle won't be interested in you.

...and that's why I think the GOP powers that be just don't get it.

[Predicto]

I would agree with Kilmer's points in general.

I also agree that taking a more libertarian stance would serve the Republicans well. But that has to be moderate libertarianism. If they go Ron Paul nutso, they will get crushed even worse than ever before.

[Larry]

Can I propose an addition to Kilmer's four points?

5) Stop running on a platform of "The most important thing America needs, is another tax cut".

Heck, nominate somebody who says "I think taxes are OK, right now. I'd leave them alone".

What could be more conservative than "leave it alone"?

[Predicto]

My problem is that the GOP doesn't have a "fiscal conservative agenda".

There wasn't a single GOP candidate for President who wasn't promising another huge tax cut on the rich.

What the GOP has is a "pass big tax cuts, increase military spending, act surprised when the deficit goes up, and demand that somebody else get rid of SS and Medicare, because of this deficit that somehow got here" agenda.

This always bothers me. For 40 years the GOP has definitively proven that they are not "fiscal conservatives." They are tax cutters, but not government shrinkers, and certainly not budget balancers. They are the opposite of fiscally sound.

How they continue to wear that label election after election is beyond my capacity to understand.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I remember when he GOP used to call the Dems "tax and spend" at least that was fiscally responsible, but the GOP has become "spend and don't pay" and thn they have the nerve to scream that they should be trusted to cut the deficit. :doh:

[alexey]

My problem is that the GOP doesn't have a "fiscal conservative agenda".

There wasn't a single GOP candidate for President who wasn't promising another huge tax cut on the rich.

What the GOP has is a "pass big tax cuts, increase military spending, act surprised when the deficit goes up, and demand that somebody else get rid of SS and Medicare, because of this deficit that somehow got here" agenda.

I second this.

[zoony]

Although always an independent, I have also always leaned right. And I can tell you from my standpoint, I will vote D until the libertarians crawl back under the rocks they came from.

The answer for republicans is not to move farther from the center but closer. By all means, bring some of those libertarian values but use them in a more rational, moderate way. Cut back on government waste and spending where it makes sense, not by gutting everything in sight. Killing Big Bird isn't going to do the slightest thing to reduce the debt. It's just going to hurt a non commercialized news and edutainment source that has constantly returned more than the governments investment. And unless you truly want to divide this country into the haves and have nots and see it ended in civil war, you embrace those Christian values so many republicans claim and accept that it is in everyones best interest to help the poor rather than demonize them as freeloaders.

But while I'm criticizing the R's let me lay one on the D's..... It's time to start making some deeper spending cuts. Not tea party sized cuts but cuts just the same. The divided nature of this election should send a signal to both parties. If you really want to impress this independent, stop fighting for votes and arguing and start fighting for the nation by cooperating. [/RANT]

Nice post Mike

[Duckus]

Get rid of Grover. Refusing 10-1 cuts/revenue makes you look insane. This guy is causing it.

[88Comrade2000]

Good suggestions but it makes me think of this song: Sometimes A Fantasy

The GOP currently cares about getting reelected. The majority of the GOP members of the House and Senate will worry about facing a primary challenge in the next election; so they will continue to cow tow to the tea party, religious, neocon, etc.. extremists.

The only way the GOP will truely learn and win the war against the extremists is for the extremists to have their candidate win the nomination in 2016 and then have them defeated. Only then will they be able to purge them. Frankly, the GOP should be quaking in their boots; Obama has given the DEMS a winable majority at least at the Presidential level for a long time if the GOP doesn't change.

[deejaydana]

There are a number of ways that the GOP can address their shortcomings (which are a few). They already have a deeper bench, forgive the sports reference, of solid minority up and comers that can be used to genuinely reach out to the minority vote (Rubio and Jindal come to mind but there are others). They need to at the very least addres the identity politics that Obama and his group just cashed in on this last election. They need to do more than talk about being fiscally responsible, they actually need to show they can really follow thru with it. With all that said, I'm getting tired of every current fault within our Republic being laid at their feet. It's an argument that only holds water if you're the most hopeless partisan out there, and we might have a couple here at ES (don't see how it's productive at this point). If we go launching over the fiscal cliff I don't think you'll find many people pointing fingers and trying to assign blame to one party over the other. We will all be in a terrible world of hurt and both parties will have played a major hand in making it happen.

[88Comrade2000]

Disagree. As soon as people hear that he was Scott Walker tough on gov't unions, the liberal lovefest with Christie over the last week would have been over

That and he is fat. We don't elect fat President's.

I think Taft would disagree with you; but that was before TV.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Good suggestions but it makes me think of this song: Sometimes A Fantasy

The GOP currently cares about getting reelected. The majority of the GOP members of the House and Senate will worry about facing a primary challenge in the next election; so they will continue to cow tow to the tea party, religious, neocon, etc.. extremists.

The only way the GOP will truely learn and win the war against the extremists is for the extremists to have their candidate win the nomination in 2016 and then have them defeated. Only then will they be able to purge them. Frankly, the GOP should be quaking in their boots; Obama has given the DEMS a winable majority at least at the Presidential level for a long time if the GOP doesn't change.

The embarrasing campaign of Sarah Palin didn't convince them? If not, they'll never learn. And some of them never will. Time to give a real moderate a chance, and let him push his moderate agenda instead of pandering to the extreme.

[88Comrade2000]

I think Christie would be an interesting choice. But, I do agree Burgold on the Gulliani effect. I think the GOP will win in 2016 because I don't think the Dems will have a great candidate then. Could be wrong, but the GOP seems to have Christie and Rubio waiting in the wings.

Christie wouldn't survive the nomination process. Already, the right wing is angry at him for praising Obama last week. As long as the right wing controls the primaries; Christie wouldn't survive. Rubio also will not make it thru the process because there are certain elements of the GOP that will not vote for a hispanic. Rubio best chance will be in 2020 or 2024; depends on how Hillary's first term goes.

Obama has given Hillary a winning coalition in 2008 and Hillary would add to that buy getting even some of the married women. The only way the Dems don't win in 2016 is if the country is in complete collasp then. If things are the same or better; I will take the Democrats over the Republicans in 2016.

[thebluefood]

Although always an independent, I have also always leaned right. And I can tell you from my standpoint, I will vote D until the libertarians crawl back under the rocks they came from.

The answer for republicans is not to move farther from the center but closer. By all means, bring some of those libertarian values but use them in a more rational, moderate way. Cut back on government waste and spending where it makes sense, not by gutting everything in sight. Killing Big Bird isn't going to do the slightest thing to reduce the debt. It's just going to hurt a non commercialized news and edutainment source that has constantly returned more than the governments investment. And unless you truly want to divide this country into the haves and have nots and see it ended in civil war, you embrace those Christian values so many republicans claim and accept that it is in everyones best interest to help the poor rather than demonize them as freeloaders.

But while I'm criticizing the R's let me lay one on the D's..... It's time to start making some deeper spending cuts. Not tea party sized cuts but cuts just the same. The divided nature of this election should send a signal to both parties. If you really want to impress this independent, stop fighting for votes and arguing and start fighting for the nation by cooperating. [/RANT]

Nice post Mike

Just thought I should chime in and remind everyone that Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, broke the 1,000,000 vote mark this year, the first Libertarian presidential candidate to do so.

It may not be in the GOP, but libertarianism isn't going away.

(I will say, though, that I agree with Mike that the GOP needs to return to the middle)

[88Comrade2000]

Honestly though, is the GOP worth saving? The best thing would be for it to go the way of the WHIGS.

Take Kilmers and SHF's ideas and start a new fresh party.

[SteveFromYellowstone]

This always bothers me. For 40 years the GOP has definitively proven that they are not "fiscal conservatives." They are tax cutters, but not government shrinkers, and certainly not budget balancers. They are the opposite of fiscally sound.

How they continue to wear that label election after election is beyond my capacity to understand.

I try to point out to people that the past couple decades that Democratic presidents actually spend less and are more fiscally responsible (usually bring in higher revenue) but most Republicans I know don't care, they simply dig in harder and stick their fingers in their ears.

[HeluCopter29]

Disassociate themselves from the Tea Party.

The Tea Party is scary as hell to me.

[Popeman38]

1) Embrace PR as a state

2) Draft comprehensive immigration reform that is different than what the Dems have proposed, that is more inclusive

3) Get rid of the social neanderthals

4) Remove abortion from the party platform (you may consider it bad law, but it is decided law - the SC ain't touching it)

5) Technology, technology, technology

6) Tackle the budget without going nuclear - if the Dems will bend some on spending, Reps have to bend on taxes

Honestly, this can go on for pages. The Reps need to reclaim the party of fiscal conservatives without the draconian social policies.

[Duckus]

There are a number of ways that the GOP can address their shortcomings (which are a few). They already have a deeper bench, forgive the sports reference, of solid minority up and comers that can be used to genuinely reach out to the minority vote (Rubio and Jindal come to mind but there are others). They need to at the very least addres the identity politics that Obama and his group just cashed in on this last election. They need to do more than talk about being fiscally responsible, they actually need to show they can really follow thru with it. With all that said, I'm getting tired of every current fault within our Republic being laid at their feet. It's an argument that only holds water if you're the most hopeless partisan out there, and we might have a couple here at ES (don't see how it's productive at this point). If we go launching over the fiscal cliff I don't think you'll find many people pointing fingers and trying to assign blame to one party over the other. We will all be in a terrible world of hurt and both parties will have played a major hand in making it happen.

The GOP running minority candidates on a national level is putting a band-aid on a gun shot wound and hoping that it stops the bleeding.

The problems with the GOP has with minority and women voters goes much deeper than the lack of diversity on the ballot. Those are the issues the party must fix first.

[Larry]

There are a number of ways that the GOP can address their shortcomings (which are a few). They already have a deeper bench, forgive the sports reference, of solid minority up and comers that can be used to genuinely reach out to the minority vote (Rubio and Jindal come to mind but there are others). They need to at the very least addres the identity politics that Obama and his group just cashed in on this last election.

Admiring the irony of someone suggesting that the GOP needs to field a token who's a member of the target race, so they can address the evils of identity politics that The Other Guys use.

I will also observe that the last time the GOP said "get me a member of (demographic group we want to vote for us), they picked Sarah Palin.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 04:50 PM ----------

Christie wouldn't survive the nomination process. Already, the right wing is angry at him for praising Obama last week. As long as the right wing controls the primaries; Christie wouldn't survive. Rubio also will not make it thru the process because there are certain elements of the GOP that will not vote for a hispanic. Rubio best chance will be in 2020 or 2024; depends on how Hillary's first term goes.

Obama has given Hillary a winning coalition in 2008 and Hillary would add to that buy getting even some of the married women. The only way the Dems don't win in 2016 is if the country is in complete collasp then. If things are the same or better; I will take the Democrats over the Republicans in 2016.

I wouldn't be so sure about ruling out Rubio or Christie in the GOP primaries.

I will observe that Romney has shown that it is possible for the GOP voters to put "electable" on their list of qualifications.

(And it helps if he's got more money than all the other candidates combined, too.)

[@DCGoldPants]

Admiring the irony of someone suggesting that the GOP needs to field a token who's a member of the target race, so they can address the evils of identity politics that The Other Guys use.

I will also observe that the last time the GOP said "get me a member of (demographic group we want to vote for us), they picked Sarah Palin.

Michael Steele was on today basically saying when he was running the RNC, they tried to recruit actual minorities that were of the same beliefs....and it was hard. That some after him tried less and didn't get anywhere....but he finished by saying you can't just put somebody up and say "Hey, we've got a minority over here!"