2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[HardcoreZorn]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

if there was no context to it as if this was your first post directed my way in a discussion, it wouldn't strike any nerve.  But your point in your post is just a simplistic jab that has nothing to do with any macro point I was making and shows no regard for nuance.  And here on this post we got your explanation of how a roster works as if I am a 3rd grader being introduced to the sport.   So it comes off like you want to condescend as opposed to actually debate. 

 

I don't mind debating anyone on anything.  But if you are going to sum up MY macro point about building a roster, quote me or give it a real shot versus assign me a silly position to prop your position.  On another thread, you told me I have you labeled wrong and in response I actually went through the trouble of presenting what in my mind was your actual macro view and put real thought into it -- not my own version of it just to win an argument. 

 

I actually summed up my macro position on FA about 25 times or so on this very thread. And its nothing close to how you labeled it.

I'm sorry you took it as a jab but it was merely a way of expressing that I think your view on FA, if followed by the team, would cause them to run into trouble resigning our own who we value to second contracts. It's not like I attacked you or labeled you anything. 

 

Your Macro view on FA is what I said above. If you are going to sign someone, make it worth your while. 1 Calais Cambell>2 McC's. Is that not correct? Because yes, I do agree Campbell is a hit while the McC's weren't. But the McC's also have 50% of the cap hit that campbell carries. And we have already ridded ourselves of one. They don't affect our ability to resign a Preston Smith nearly as much as Campbell would have. And the McC's clearly were not long term solutions in the FO mind, as evidenced by the drafting of Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne in consecutive first rounds. They were bodies, stop gaps. McGee looks like he could be a decent rotational piece as well. 

 

In a vaccum, I agree with your premise. It's better to pay elite money to a really good player than it is to pay average money to below average players. I just think that fails to see the big picture. No doubt we would have been better with Campbell. But how much better? And are we better in 2019 going forward with a 33 year old Campbell and losing Smith to FA and trying to replace him through the draft? Or Smith on a second contract entering his prime and plugging the DL with high draft picks. Which we did. It's just an example, but I think it paints an accurate picture of how these decisions need to be viewed. Like I said, I think it's great to use FA as a tool. The Richardon's and Garcons, Cornelious Griffins, and Marcus Washingtons are my favorite types of FA signings. A bit riskier, but young guys that are actually capable of out performing their contracts if you hit on them. And I too would rather us totally avoid a McClain and get a young guy in there instead of wasting money on a JAG. But I think you need to be careful throwing large sums of money on veteran players just because they upgrade your team in the here and now. Aka Campbell, DRC.

[Est.1974]

Galette continues to attention seek by the looks of things. Sign somewhere or retire please.

[cakmoney61]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Galette continues to attention seek by the looks of things. Sign somewhere or retire please.

His right arm looks much bigger than his left arm.  It could be the camera angle.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I

Your Macro view on FA is what I said above. If you are going to sign someone, make it worth your while. 1 Calais Cambell>2 McC's. Is that not correct? Because yes, I do agree Campbell is a hit while the McC's weren't. But the McC's also have 50% of the cap hit that campbell carries. And we have already ridded ourselves of one. They don't affect our ability to resign a Preston Smith nearly as much as Campbell would have. And the McC's clearly were not long term solutions in the FO mind, as evidenced by the drafting of Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne in consecutive first rounds. They were bodies, stop gaps. McGee looks like he could be a decent rotational piece as well. 

 

In a vaccum, I agree with your premise. It's better to pay elite money to a really good player than it is to pay average money to below average players. I just think that fails to see the big picture. No doubt we would have been better with Campbell. But how much better? And are we better in 2019 going forward with a 33 year old Campbell and losing Smith to FA and trying to replace him through the draft? Or Smith on a second contract entering his prime and plugging the DL with high draft picks. Which we did. It's just an example, but I think it paints an accurate picture of how these decisions need to be viewed. Like I said, I think it's great to use FA as a tool. The Richardon's and Garcons, Cornelious Griffins, and Marcus Washingtons are my favorite types of FA signings. A bit riskier, but young guys that are actually capable of out performing their contracts if you hit on them. And I too would rather us totally avoid a McClain and get a young guy in there instead of wasting money on a JAG. But I think you need to be careful throwing large sums of money on veteran players just because they upgrade your team in the here and now. Aka Campbell, DRC.

 

OK, thanks for the explanation.  My macro view of FA which I've stated before is this:

 

A.  This FO whether it was Scot or Bruce are at times unfairly pegged as being unwilling to spend.  The thing is they almost always spend to the cap or close enough. They spend. 

 

B.  Their approach seems to be to mitigate risk by doing two things.  The guaranteed money is typically no more than two years (I usually like that approach) and they sign a quantity of players versus 1 or 2 marquee guys -- and hopefully some of them land (I don't love this approach).

 

I am not advocating that they spend more than they do but I'd rather a couple of marquee players over a series of them.  Their best FA class IMO was last year.  This FA season so far seems more low key than typical but I'll take Bruce at their word that they are waiting for interesting player releases.  And heck back to my Cromartie example -- for many players staying out there in the wilderness it decreases their leverage to get a big contract as opposed to increases it.  So I don't rule out that they don't ultimately get him.

 

As for your example of Calais Campbell like most contracts you can get out of it after 2 seasons.  So the 33 year old example doesn't fit.  He will be 32 in 2019 according to a site I just looked at.  

 

As for failing to see the big picture, I think your point to me misses the mark on that front.  IMO its not about some global philosophical broad brush but its a case by case basis.  Calais Campbell specifically was 30 last year and not only is he a monster player but he's a monster player that plays a monster position and he's a monster level leader.  Guys like that don't hit FA that often.

 

Keeping in mind the article that's been floating on twitter about the Redskins being the only team in the NFL without an All Pro player for eons.   As Chris Cooley likes to say (and he likes this FO) too many B level guys on this team -- solid-good players -- but are you going to contend for a Superbowl with a roster like that?   In his mind, no.  I agree.  His point is though A level players changes things for everyone.  You need 2 or 3 guys on Calais.  Imagine then how it is for Allen, Ionnaidis, etc.  If you have a guy who can take over a game that momentum filters to everyone. 

 

The Jaguars for example two years in a row took the best D lineman on the market.  This year they took the best O lineman on the market.  And they got deeper in the playoffs than our team has in decades.  I've watched the Vikings for two different off seasons take my favorite D lineman in FA with Joseph years back and Richardson now.   When I listened to Jay last year talk about how hard the Vikings are to run against because Joseph is a bear to run against -- it pained me to hear.    Heck Calais Campbell was one of my man crushes during the infamous 2008 draft.  I recall the narrative well -- we had his UM D line coach, there was optimism we might take him.  And heck the dude fell deepish into the 2nd round.  We skipped him. 

 

Edit:  As for Preston Smith, I've defended him in other threads.  I like the player.  The reason why I don't think he's back if I had to guess is about me guessing the FO's actions.   If Preston makes it to the season without an extension, I think it makes it doubtful.  They typically get it done in the previous off season with their bigger players (so between now and the summer).   And with Preston considering that he's likely going to get 10 million plus on the open market -- they have to give him that amount now.  I just wonder if they aren't tempted to save that money and see how things play out with Anderson and get a 3rd round-4th round comp pick.  That doesn't seem out of character to me as to the FO approach. 

 

Would I do that personally?  Nope.  For a guy that loves the draft as much as I do.  The draft thread is my favorite place to post.  Am as into the draft as I am into the season.  And having lots of comp picks is a blast from that stand point.  However, I don't like grooming young players to be successful, letting them leave at a young age and getting a pick that's 2-3 rounds lower than the place I took the player.  Veterans I like doing that with.  But I hate it with young emerging players.  Do i feel better for example that Spencer Long is a Jet because we get a 6th rounder for him next year.  Nope, I'd rather have Long. 

[Wyvern]

Lots of great posts recently.  The thing we fans need to look at, is whether the Skins FA is only about picking up other teams' players whose rookie contracts have expired, instead of Skins players whose rookie contracts have expired. It reflects badly on the Skins that other teams' FAs are more desirable than the home-grown players.

 

As the Skins coaches get better at training up their own, maybe they can hang onto their own, or use them as trade-bait.  IMHO, FA acquisitions need to be saved for the qualified "A-list" guys that the Skins couldn't draft and/or coach up themselves... especially at key positions the Skins need.

 

It's a salary-cap balancing act, but these opportunities do present themselves (D-Jax, Norman, etc.). The Skins can't always shrink away from big-ticket FAs for budget reasons and instead find 2-3 high priced JAGs as a consolation for not signing the top-tier player.  At one point, like the Vikings, they have to go for the brass ring.  (Not sure whether we're there yet, but the Skins QB already has a clock ticking on him.)

 

[Burgold]

This is a big season for Smith for a couple of reasons. First off, his contract is up. Second, he's been inconsistent sometimes being very good and sometimes being invisible, but the most important might just be number 3. If Allen, Payne, Settle, Ionadis, etc. form a good defensive line then the excuses disappear. If there is push in the middle then I want to see the linebackers getting home against the QBs and I want them containing and stopping the running backs. Both Smith and Kerrigan should flourish. There's every reason for Smith to have a great season. If he does, then you need to reward him because this DL is going to be around for a while. If, however, he has another up and down yo yo season, then you have to ask yourself if you can do better.

[Shar Pourdanesh]

I have to agree with Hardcore Zorn's take on the FO and their strategy at CB this offseason, and in general with roster construction over the past few seasons. Surprising for anyone who has followed this team for the last 25 years, but they do seem committed to building through the draft, responsible cap management, and focused use of free agency to build their roster. 

 

Hopefully guys like Moreau and Holsey can take a step forward this year and Scandrick isn't anything more than off-season topic. I'd assume that's what the team is planning on too.  We shall see ... 

 

 

[SkinsGuy]

Looks like Breeland is headed to Indianapolis, and the Colts.

 

https://riggosrag.com/2018/05/19/report-former-washington-redskins-cb-bashaud-breeland-likely-join-colts/

[SkinsGuy]

Junior Galette considering retirement?

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000933439/article/free-agent-junior-galette-considering-retirement

[markmills67]

Is Hankins still available?. He would put our DL in the top 5 in my opinion. 

 

HTTR 

[Burgold]

16 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Is Hankins still available?. He would put our DL in the top 5 in my opinion. 

 

HTTR 

At this point, I think we'd only be interested in him at vet min plus incentives. I'm not really kidding either. I mean we could cut the other Mc for some cap pain, but it would be a one year rental with almost no chance of re-signing him because of the salary cap next year and the fact that we need to have a place for all the pups (assuming Settle pans out and Lanier continues to progress).

 

[bird_1972]

35 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Is Hankins still available?. He would put our DL in the top 5 in my opinion. 

 

HTTR 

 

Way too many other areas of need (ie, LG). 

 

At this point, I would put the Hankins talk to bed given who we drafted.

[carex]

7 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

Junior Galette considering retirement?

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000933439/article/free-agent-junior-galette-considering-retirement

 

that's a shame.  But with his injury history, if he feels under valued I can see it

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Way too many other areas of need (ie, LG). 

 

At this point, I would put the Hankins talk to bed given who we drafted.

 

at this point we should only sign a LG, or someone we could convert to there

[Hail2theSkins24]

Find Incognito’s number and put Alex Smith, Bill Callahan, and Eric Schafer on speaker phone. Now. 

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Way too many other areas of need (ie, LG). 

 

At this point, I would put the Hankins talk to bed given who we drafted.

 

I agree 

 

I am suspicious of Hankins now. Here it is, we are heading into June, and Hankins still hasn't signed anywhere.

 

Is he asking for such a ridiculous amount that he is pricing himself out of the league? Or is it just a case of laziness taking over, and he just wants to skip all offseason activities? 

 

Either way, I'm losing interest in Hankins.

[markmills67]

Richie Incognito released by the Bills, wants to carry on playing, Allen sign the man.

 

HTTR 

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Richie Incognito released by the Bills, wants to carry on playing, Allen sign the man.

 

HTTR 

Lots of baggage. Why was he released?

[Master Blaster]

20 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Richie Incognito released by the Bills, wants to carry on playing, Allen sign the man.

 

HTTR 

 

 

He announced his retirement on Twitter a month ago.

 

 

Never mind looks like he's back.

[markmills67]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Lots of baggage. Why was he released?

He threatened to retire I believe, don't think Bills wanted to take a chance. He started all games last year and got to the pro-bowl. I would sign him to a 1 year deal.

 

HTTR 

2 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

He announced his retirement on Twitter a month ago.

Then he changed his mind but Bills had moved on.

 

HTTR 

[WelshSkinsFan]

The retirement announcement was a negotiating tactic it seems as he is looking to play this year and has now forced his way out of Buffalo.  Having said that I am really conflicted because for all of his ability he is a garbage human being and I don't think I want someone like that representing the Skins.

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

The retirement announcement was a negotiating tactic it seems as he is looking to play this year and has now forced his way out of Buffalo.  Having said that I am really conflicted because for all of his ability he is a garbage human being and I don't think I want someone like that representing the Skins.

 

Ill take the garbage as a one year stop gap until we draft our starter next off season. We need to plug that hole. And Incognito is a pro bowl player at a position of need.

[carex]

Incognito is the kind of signing we've done in the past decade, with Jackson and Norman so I can see it happening

[DWinzit]

My hopes are still high on resigning Smith.

I would be happy with Incognito on a one year deal. 

Galette whined his way out of Washington which is a shame. He has to be second guessing himself.

I had hopes of Hankins being a Redskin until the draft. I pass on him and his agents overvalued views of him. 

[TSO]

I’d still sign Hankins. Of course, don’t know how much he’s asking for and judging by the fact that he’s still out there it’s probably way overboard, but I hope the Skins are in on him until the very end. If no one is biting he’ll be forced to come down in asking price. And I doubt he’s just so horrifically out of shape no one wants him. 

 

There’s basically been two ways to win a Super Bowl the last decade plus. Elite QB + solid D or Elite Dline + solid O. And for the love of God please no one be annoying and post the exceptions to that. I know they’re there.  

 

If you’ve got a chance to ensure an elite Dline, you take it. It transforms your entire defense faster than anything else, which only aids the offense as a result. 

 

Very pleased with the emphasis on Dline the last two offseasons, but I wish they were just a tad bit more aggressive at the position.

 

Just imagine if we signed Campbell last year instead of McGee/McClain and got Hankins this offseason while having Allen fall to us last draft? With Payne and Settle taken this year (though you’d think they may have went another direction and taken Edmunds/James had the above happened, instead)? A Dline rotation of Campbell, Allen, Hankins, Ioannidis and Settle with Edmunds/James, Zach Brown, Swearinger, Nicholson roaming behind them?

 

Sick. 

 

Alas, beggars can’t be choosers. I’ll take the potential of an Allen, Payne, Ioannidis, Settle, Lanier and McGee rotation. Maybe even Taylor pans out and they’re confident enough in his health to carry him on the 53. They’ve got a chance to be elite as is, so hopefully it happens quicker than we think. 

 

But, yeah, I’d still add Hankins if/when his asking price eventually comes down. I don’t think you can over-emphasize Dline when building a team, or at least it’s extremely difficult to. 

[Conn]

Incognito is extreme trash but at a low visibility position like interior OL, surrounded by established vets who can lead rather than young impressionable guys...I'd look the other way on his issues and sign him for the sake of the offense.