2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[skinny21]

@goskins10

 

Here’s where I think the disconnect is between us.  You are saying that since the team didn’t approach him pre FA, after FA, or with a tender, the team made it clear they didn’t want him at any price.  

 

My take is, while you’re probably right... what if the team just overlooked the potential to tender him?  It’s kind of a new, fairly obscure rule, right?  What if they forgot about it, didn’t really know about it, had some miscommunication about it, or what if no one brought it up because they assumed someone else must have (or did)?  Now, I doubt I’m right (and even if I were, I doubt we find out), but that would negate the idea they didn’t want him back at any price.  

 

And that’s why I brought up the idea of the FO not making mistakes - if we say there is no way the FO didn’t realize they could tender him (or miscommicated, etc.)... we’re making an assumption, right?

 

The fact that we’re talking about a pretty talented, youngish player, at a very reasonable cost, and at a position where we have some concerns/questions... makes me question the decision even more.  

 

 

@bird_1972Not a rookie only practice - there’s an eligibility issue that allowed guys like Smithson (maybe Holsey/Moreau?), etc. to practice too.  With that said, I have no idea if Moreau was there or not.  

[MisterPinstripe]

It's a lot more likely that we didn't want him back then no one knew or forgot we could tender him. Plus, as I understand, tendering him would make it so basically he was stuck with us since he couldn't pass a physical. You want a guy that doesn't want to be here and feels imprisoned?

[bird_1972]

4 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

It's a lot more likely that we didn't want him back then no one knew or forgot we could tender him. Plus, as I understand, tendering him would make it so basically he was stuck with us since he couldn't pass a physical. You want a guy that doesn't want to be here and feels imprisoned?

 

Furthermore, do we know if he even wanted to be here? I know in a lot of cases, that doesn't matter but I would rather us have some guys in the clubhouse who want to be here rather than malcontents.

 

@skinny21 Thanks for the clarification

[skinny21]

8 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

It's a lot more likely that we didn't want him back then no one knew or forgot we could tender him.

Agreed, which is why I said as much.  

8 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Plus, as I understand, tendering him would make it so basically he was stuck with us since he couldn't pass a physical. You want a guy that doesn't want to be here and feels imprisoned?

Now this is a great point.  If he signed the tender, but couldn’t pass a physical with another team... well, you likely wouldn’t want a guy that felt that way.  Personally, I would think a team would look at his foot and say, eh, it’s healing nicely, just needs a week or three more, no big deal.  It’s quite a risk though (for the Skins and Breeland) if that didn’t work out though.  

 

Out of curiosity, how would it work if he (had) opted not to sign the tender?  Would he have to sit out the year?

 

 

[MisterPinstripe]

20 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Agreed, which is why I said as much.  

Now this is a great point.  If he signed the tender, but couldn’t pass a physical with another team... well, you likely wouldn’t want a guy that felt that way.  Personally, I would think a team would look at his foot and say, eh, it’s healing nicely, just needs a week or three more, no big deal.  It’s quite a risk though (for the Skins and Breeland) if that didn’t work out though.  

 

Out of curiosity, how would it work if he (had) opted not to sign the tender?  Would he have to sit out the year?

 

 

I'm not an expert on it, but I believe that yes, he would have had to sit out the year.

[goskins10]

31 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Agreed, which is why I said as much.  

Now this is a great point.  If he signed the tender, but couldn’t pass a physical with another team... well, you likely wouldn’t want a guy that felt that way.  Personally, I would think a team would look at his foot and say, eh, it’s healing nicely, just needs a week or three more, no big deal.  It’s quite a risk though (for the Skins and Breeland) if that didn’t work out though.  

 

Out of curiosity, how would it work if he (had) opted not to sign the tender?  Would he have to sit out the year?

 

 

 

Yes, if he does not sign with another team, he either signs the tender or sits out. The Redskins retain all rights. 

 

I see what you were driving at in terms of them not being aware - and BTW thanks for clarifying - Yikes, you have an extremely low opinion of them. I thought mine was pretty bad.

 

If it's found out that just no one thought of it then just fire the entire lot. I am 100% confident that did not happen. I know the FO does no make decisions that make sense sometimes. But that does not mean they are complete buffoons with no idea how the league works. There is at least one person show job it is to make everyone aware of the options that has forgotten way more than any of us on the board. Additionally, when you consider it was just used by NE last year, the chances of them just not being aware is literally 100% in my mind. 

 

This is not directed at you - I realize your concern is tender him and have him play - not tender him to get a better draft pick - 

This injury was part of my reasoning why there is pretty much no way anyone signs him for >$6M. After he failed a physical with someone else - especially this late in FA anyone paying that kind of money is really not too bright. So there is no benefit to giving him the tender as it would not give us an additional draft pick and is very very unlikely it improves the draft picks we are scheduled to receive. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

So for me, it boils down to two explanations - 1) they just really didn’t want him at the team (and cost wasn’t the motive), or 2) they dropped the ball.   To essentially refuse a player of his caliber at an incredibly reasonable price (at a position with some questions and Scandrick on the roster), is odd to me since we didn’t hear any real issues with him.  Yes, he complained about Norman’s signing and doesn’t do himself any favors on social media, and yes, he struggled at times, but he played quite well when our dline was healthy, and was at least decent when they weren’t.  The cherry on top is that he can play inside and out, and probably kicks Scandrick off the team.  

 

The irony to me is if they wanted to move on from Breeland's emotional style which doesn't always manifests in the right way -- he's essentially replaced with a guy even more known for his emotional moments in that same vein and is older and simply not as good. 

[Est.1974]

We clearly moved on from Breeland some time ago. He did come across as a bit of a dick, mixed quality of play, runs his mouth off on social media (usually not  good here although DJ gets away with it....) and he was lining up 8mil per year in FA. Not worth that.

 

Failed medical at another team doesn't erase any previous doubts here. Isn't that a sign of 'good' management...

[redskinss]

Did Johnathan hankins get hit by a bus? 

 

 How does somebody of his talent go so long unsigned? 

He must want to sit out training camp or something or he's asking for a fortune. 

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Did Johnathan hankins get hit by a bus? 

 

 How does somebody of his talent go so long unsigned? 

He must want to sit out training camp or something or he's asking for a fortune. 

 

Greed. Either him, his agent, of both.

 

I'd still love him here. We would be stacked on DL for years. 

[carex]

34 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Did Johnathan hankins get hit by a bus? 

 

 How does somebody of his talent go so long unsigned? 

He must want to sit out training camp or something or he's asking for a fortune. 

 

he's gonna be the first player signed to the Alliance of American Football

[Master Blaster]

Gold tender Green tender who gives a ****?

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Did Johnathan hankins get hit by a bus? 

 

 How does somebody of his talent go so long unsigned? 

He must want to sit out training camp or something or he's asking for a fortune. 

 

Just a hunch... based on 35 years of watching NFL football. He’s likely out of shape (overweight by 35+ pounds).... and no one wants to commit to anything significant to him long-term... but they worry about his weight issues. Everyone wants to sign him to 1-year prove it deal that keeps him motivated.

 

Again, just a hunch. But the signs are there.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Greed. Either him, his agent, of both.

 

I'd still love him here. We would be stacked on DL for years. 

For 1 year ... maybe.  Because he’s only going to get a 1 year deal.  

[sjinhan]

8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Greed. Either him, his agent, of both.

 

I'd still love him here. We would be stacked on DL for years. 

 

 

At at this point with our cap space, I think it’s better suited to do early extensions on players 1-2 years early that we KNOW we want to keep long term ala Smith, Crowder, Innondais(sp?).... this has to be strategy that we need to follow like Eagles have done successfully in the past.

 

if these players don’t sign then either trade them or let them hit FA so we can recoup comp picks.   

 

IMHO this is only way to keep cap balanced sustainablely long terms 

[OVCChairman]

5 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

 

At at this point with our cap space, I think it’s better suited to do early extensions on players 1-2 years early that we KNOW we want to keep long term ala Smith, Crowder, Innondais(sp?).... this has to be strategy that we need to follow like Eagles have done successfully in the past.

 

if these players don’t sign then either trade them or let them hit FA so we can recoup comp picks.   

 

IMHO this is only way to keep cap balanced sustainablely long terms 

 

 

Well Crowder AND Smith are going into the final year of their deal.  Granted this team has gone from one end of the spectrum with leaks, to the other where very little info in negotiations is actually out there.... We saw that with Brown and A. Smith.  

 

 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Well Crowder AND Smith are going into the final year of their deal.  Granted this team has gone from one end of the spectrum with leaks, to the other where very little info in negotiations is actually out there.... We saw that with Brown and A. Smith.  

 

 

 

We need to lock Smith up. Crowder, well the mighty Quinn could have a say in that  

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

We need to lock Smith up. Crowder, well the mighty Quinn could have a say in that  

 

I agree with that.  If we lock up Smith for at least 3 years, we're talkin about one NASTY front 7 on that side of the ball for long enough that we could see us become contenders in the NFC.  I honestly believe that.  Obviously there are still a couple unknowns, so I'm not saying it's a lock or anything crazy.... but we've got some young, seemingly very good talent in the box with a legit leader in the middle to show them the way.  

 

 

And.... more and more I'm getting intrigued with Quinn.  I really hope he can get latched on.  I'd almost consider cross-training Crowder into a role that he runs a lot of the same looks and positions as Thompson.  Obviously I don't want to hand Crowder the ball out of the backfield, but if we can use Crowder in place of CT in some of those slot and split wide situations... it could make up for some mismatches.  

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

We clearly moved on from Breeland some time ago. He did come across as a bit of a dick, mixed quality of play, runs his mouth off on social media (usually not  good here although DJ gets away with it....) and he was lining up 8mil per year in FA. Not worth that.

 

Failed medical at another team doesn't erase any previous doubts here. Isn't that a sign of 'good' management...

 

They basically replaced Breeland with an older vastly inferior version who arguably brings even more drama.  Scandrick like Breeland I don't think is a bad guy -- but he's an outburst=drama guy who finds his way into the news actually even more so than Breeland.  So sound management?  IMO not even close.  If they signed Cromartie, I'd say nice job.  But if Breeland signs elsewhere ultimately on the cheap and Scandrick plays like he has recently -- good management isn't what would come to mind for me. 

 

 

 

No Scandrick with his 41 rating from PFF on this list.  We got their #113 rated CB. 

 

 

RotoUnderworld‏ @rotounderworld May 9

More

Fewest Cornerback Yards Allowed Per Game in 2017: 1. Aaron Colvin: 22.3 2. Kendall Fuller: 22.6 3. Chris Harris: 27.4 4. Bashaud Breeland: 27.8 5. Artie Burns: 29.1 6. E.J. Gaines: 30.1 7. Tramon Williams: 30.6 8. Desmond King: 31.9 9. Jourdan Lewis: 31.9 10. Aqib Talib: 32.3

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They basically replaced Breeland with an older vastly inferior version who arguably brings even more drama.  Scandrick like Breeland I don't think is a bad guy -- but he's an outburst=drama guy who finds his way into the news actually even more so than Breeland.  So sound management?  IMO not even close.  If they signed Cromartie, I'd say nice job.  But if Breeland signs elsewhere ultimately on the cheap and Scandrick plays like he has recently -- good management isn't what would come to mind for me. 

 

 

 

No Scandrick with his 41 rating from PFF on this list.  We got their #113 rated CB. 

 

 

RotoUnderworld‏ @rotounderworld May 9

More

Fewest Cornerback Yards Allowed Per Game in 2017: 1. Aaron Colvin: 22.3 2. Kendall Fuller: 22.6 3. Chris Harris: 27.4 4. Bashaud Breeland: 27.8 5. Artie Burns: 29.1 6. E.J. Gaines: 30.1 7. Tramon Williams: 30.6 8. Desmond King: 31.9 9. Jourdan Lewis: 31.9 10. Aqib Talib: 32.3

 

 

I don't think Scandrick was signed to play outside.  He's veteran depth, primarily in the slot.  I believe the outside will be a competition between Dunbar and Moreau.  

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I don't think Scandrick was signed to play outside.  He's veteran depth, primarily in the slot.  I believe the outside will be a competition between Dunbar and Moreau.  

 

I know Scandrick is set to play inside in the slot.  I'd still take Breeland or Cromartie by a mile over Scandrick.   Both can play slot.  Breeland had to play some slot.  If I recall 2 seasons ago he had PFF's best score when he played in the slot or it was top 5.  I recall him joking with fans on twitter about it in the 2017 off season saying hey you want me to play slot now, that's cool.  

 

We can get killed in the slot especially in this division with every division opponent having a stud at slot WR.   Maybe it will change this year but the Giants are just about always playing in 11 so your slot guy is always on the field.

 

We still have time to sign a player or two in Fa and I've been singing that song for awhile.  But if they don't, I'd judge this FA season as another in a series of "meh" to bad FA runs.  As much as I like how they've approached the draft for years now -- IMO their FA approach at best I'd say is "meh".  Their best run of it IMO was 2017.  But again we still have time.   

 

The Scandrick signing to me is another one of these hallmark we got a bargain deals that likely ends with the players departure the following year and we go fishing again -- the 19% batting average that this FO has had during the Bruce era (posted in an article here) that signing fits it to a tee.

 

Yeah maybe you save 3-4 million by signing Scandrick over Cromartie or Breeland but those guys can actually play.  I don't even like using FA to sign guys that are likely just guys at best.   Maybe Scandrick will surprise you never know -- but he fits the profile of our many bust FA signings.

 

If Chris Russell is right and Jay and Bruce have had more rows about FA this off season than in the past.  More tension on that front.  That doesn't surprise me especially if this is a make or break season for both as some contend.  There is still time though, hopefully we get lucky with a useful release from another team. 

[carex]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I

 

The Scandrick signing to me is another one of these hallmark we got a bargain deals that likely ends with the players departure the following year and we go fishing again -- the 19% batting average that this FO has had during the Bruce era (posted in an article here) that signing fits it to a tee.

 

 

I feel like that is the intent, a rental until someone else can develop with someone else brought in to provide insurance.  Scandrick is this year's Justin Rogers or Greg Toler

[OVCChairman]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know Scandrick is set to play inside in the slot.  I'd still take Breeland or Cromartie by a mile over Scandrick.   Both can play slot.  Breeland had to play some slot.  If I recall 2 seasons ago he had PFF's best score when he played in the slot or it was top 5.  I recall him joking with fans on twitter about it in the 2017 off season saying hey you want me to play slot now, that's cool.  

 

 

 

 

Ok and that's going on the assumption that Bree was willing to sign here.  Bree has had a public history with contention with this coaching staff.  Add to that a $8 mil price tag in what has appeared to be a dicey cap situation... not just this year but next as well.  Especially with Smith and Scherff set to become free agents after this coming season.   

I would take Bree over Scandrick too, but I'm not sold that the Redskins were the only deciding factor that Bree isn't here now.  

 

Edit:  We picked up Scherff's 5th year option so he's not going into his final year yet.  

[carex]

8 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Ok and that's going on the assumption that Bree was willing to sign here.  Bree has had a public history with contention with this coaching staff.  Add to that a $8 mil price tag in what has appeared to be a dicey cap situation... not just this year but next as well.  Especially with Smith and Scherff set to become free agents after this coming season.   

I would take Bree over Scandrick too, but I'm not sold that the Redskins were the only deciding factor that Bree isn't here now.  

 

Smith and Crowder are set to be FA, Scherff had his fifth year option exercised

[OVCChairman]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Smith and Crowder are set to be FA, Scherff had his fifth year option exercised

 

Yes, that's right... so he's still under contract through next season (2019).  

 

That $12.5 mil he's getting next season is going to give his agent a nice little platform to try to get a big payday too...