The 2017 Training Camp Discussion Thread

[TheGreek1973]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I think Quick is long term injury insurance for our top 2. Primarily Pryor, but will split with Grant fill in duty for Doctson. Grant's the primary backup for Crowder, and is our #4  - out in 4 wide.

 

I had no idea Quick played special teams - which is mandatory for a #5 to stick yet only carry 5.

I still think Harris is extremely important to our season.  He made some clutch catches last year and he only looked better in that Tampa preseason game.  What I am saying is if we keep him in PS, I can see a few games in a WR hungry team making a play for him.

[RandyHolt]

8 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

I still think Harris is extremely important to our season.  He made some clutch catches last year and he only looked better in that Tampa preseason game.  What I am saying is if we keep him in PS, I can see a few games in a WR hungry team making a play for him.

I like Harris but don't see him as important perhaps as you do.

 

What he brought last year, we brought in this year in droves. Size, physicality. Maybe even run blocking. We went 10 years without a WR over 6'0... Harris was one of the few exceptions - so it was refreshing to see a big body with hands.

 

But adding Pryor and Quick, Doctson supposedly practicing - all tall boys and Grant always standing tall in the eye of coaches  Harris quickly become more of a JAG, and of course getting hurt in camp didn't help. I think he is going to be first off the PS if injury strikes.

[sjinhan]

5 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Then you arent thinking very hard. I can see making an argument that you want him to make more game changing plays, but to say you cant think of a single time is a little out there. Sack fumbles, multiple to seal the game, pick 6s, etc.

 

Ok I am remember them he first got here but since his extension in 2015....

 

his performance in 2015 and 2016 seasons were quite disappointing for a LB making top 10 money for ALL linebackers in the league....

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-linebacker-rankings

 

lool through the list.... I can easily name 20 LBs that I wished I can trade Kerrigan for ...

 

Kerrigan is a good player but should not be getting top 10 LB money for what he does...

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

 

Kerrigan is a good player but should not be getting top 10 LB money for what he does...

I can't help myself but to bring this up nearly every time the gang gets going about Kirk being undeserving of a top contract.  I don't recall hearing anything but congratulations for Ryan when he signed his deal, who even at the time he signed was not near the top at his position.  I guess at the time the argument could be made that he was coming off a 13.5 sack season and was expected to only go up from there.

[OVCChairman]

Pretty sure Kerrigan has been a bright spot on a polished turd for the last few years.  He's got a tendency to be too aggressive, but he's still a very good football player.  A terrible defensive line has not done him any favors.  He gets exposed because he's literally the only threat along the front line.  Hopefully thats not the case for a while. 

[PartyPosse]

I think Kerrigan's best attribute is he makes the other OLB look good by usually getting double teamed. He made Preston Smith ant Trent Murphy look better than they are by taking the pressure off of them.

[Burgold]

One thing I remember Gibbs or Pettibone or someone saying is that it's pretty easy to negate one guy. If Kerrigan is the only guy you have to worry about on defense then OC's can plan around him and for the most part neutralize him. That's why you need someone on the other end or even better someone up the middle.

 

Kerrigan's probably a player in the very good range. It's hard to get double digit sacks and he manages that routinely. I still also remember the tip it to himself interceptions off screens early in his career. I do think he's been a victim of trying to do too much over the past two years (whether that's to live up to the contract or because he knows he's the only one who can do it). On the other hand, we saw almost everyone on the defense had a down year last year. It wasn't just Kerrigan, but Breelaned, Compton, Foster, etc. If every player looks bad or plays below their norm then I figure that's not about the player but about the coaching and scheme. With that said, I'm hopeful that we'll see a better year from a lot of guys who let us down in 2016.

[NickyJ]

Are people really giving Kerrigan the Orakpo treatment again?

[sjinhan]

13 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Are people really giving Kerrigan the Orakpo treatment again?

 

It don't think it's that...  just making an observation... I do like having him on the team but he hasn't really made much progress on his game since signing the extension.... 

 

it might be just that Kerrigan doesn't have much support up front and he is trying to do too much...  its just my 2 cents on the matter 

[MisterPinstripe]

2 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

Ok I am remember them he first got here but since his extension in 2015....

 

his performance in 2015 and 2016 seasons were quite disappointing for a LB making top 10 money for ALL linebackers in the league....

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-linebacker-rankings

 

lool through the list.... I can easily name 20 LBs that I wished I can trade Kerrigan for ...

 

Kerrigan is a good player but should not be getting top 10 LB money for what he does...

 

 

Okay, what are the 20 OLBs that you would trade Kerrigan for?

[beachboy757]

3 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Are people really giving Kerrigan the Orakpo treatment again?

Letting Orakpo go was a mistake. I remember many on this board celebrating his departure and stating how easy it would be to find his replacement in the upcoming drafts. Here we are years later still looking.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Remember how much better Kerrigan was when he played next to Adam Carriker? Its not a stretch to expect Adam Carriker level production out of Jon Allen his rookie year, he's that good. 

 

You can't double J Allen and fully block Kerrigan (lets be honest you can't just chip Ryan with a TE) without exposing the right side of your line to Smith/Gallette/Anderson coming off the edge. 

 

We may not have a nose that will keep our mlb 100% clean against inside runs but on all out pass downs you better believe we are going to be better. 

 

I'm also sold on our secondary being much better, most importantly the safeties. 

[Warhead36]

Kerrigan is a good football player, but Cooley is right he's not a game in game out playmaker and he doesn't change games. He really doesn't get double teamed very much and is often seen overrunning plays and biting on fakes. He's a Robin and we need a Batman pass rusher(those are very hard to find, after QB probably the hardest position to find).

[NickyJ]

3 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Letting Orakpo go was a mistake. I remember many on this board celebrating his departure and stating how easy it would be to find his replacement in the upcoming drafts. Here we are years later still looking.

The criticisms for Kerrigan these days sound word-for-word from what people were saying back then. "He's not a game changer", "he's a one trick pony", "he's good but not good enough." Oddly enough, Orakpo put together the best season of his career last years 11 sacks and .5 less than his 2009 total. It's almost like being in a competent defensive unit makes player noticeably perform better.

 

But hey, even though Jim Haslett and Joe Barry were the definition of trash, we still need to see Kerrigan play like Von Miller. Anything less and we'll need to cut him next season so that we can start both Preston Smith AND Trent Murphy at the same time to show him how it's really done.

[MisterPinstripe]

4 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Letting Orakpo go was a mistake. I remember many on this board celebrating his departure and stating how easy it would be to find his replacement in the upcoming drafts. Here we are years later still looking.

We let him go because the last two years he was here he missed 13+ games a piece or so. Didn't get any sacks against the NFC East, weren't getting the sack production.

 

Orakpo the last 2 years at Tennessee has 17.5 sack's and 2 forced fumbles.

 

Kerrigan has 20.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles.

 

I'll take Kerrigan every day. He also gets sacks against the NFC East and is better against the run than Orakpo ever was.

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

Letting Orakpo go was a mistake. I remember many on this board celebrating his departure and stating how easy it would be to find his replacement in the upcoming drafts. Here we are years later still looking.

 

I can't think of one time in the last two years where I was like "Damn, I wish we had Orakpo still."  

 

Even in 2009, Orakpo had 4 of those 11 sacks in one game against a sorry ass Raiders team.  A 4 sack game is really impressive but it's not like he was a threat for that every weekend.  Not many are, but he wasn't much of a threat for a 2 sack game.  As mentioned before, he could never get home against NFC East teams, either.

 

Physical specimen, seemed like a good dude, vocal presence....but just not a game changer.  

[beachboy757]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I can't think of one time in the last two years where I was like "Damn, I wish we had Orakpo still."  

 

Even in 2009, Orakpo had 4 of those 11 sacks in one game against a sorry ass Raiders team.  A 4 sack game is really impressive but it's not like he was a threat for that every weekend.  Not many are, but he wasn't much of a threat for a 2 sack game.  As mentioned before, he could never get home against NFC East teams, either.

 

Physical specimen, seemed like a good dude, vocal presence....but just not a game changer.  '

I hear ya but the same things your saying about Orakpo like "a majority sacks came from this game", "not a playmaker", and "no NFCE presence"...I'm seeing those things still being said about Kerrigan, Preston Smith, and Trent Murphy.  We have not improved at that position since he left according to many fans. That's my reasoning why it was a mistake to let him go.

[bowhunter]

11 minutes ago, beachboy757 said:

..I'm seeing those things still being said about Kerrigan, Preston Smith, and Trent Murphy.  We have not improved at that position since he left according to many fans. That's my reasoning why it was a mistake to let him go.

I believe Orakpo received franchise tag salary his last year here (I could be wrong, my rememberer is sporadic) but Orakpo is earning more then the 3 of Smith, Murphy and Gallette combined! It would foolhardy for us to pay him 4-8 times what his replacements are earning.

[carex]

Kerrigan was in the top 100 list of NFL players just two years ago.  I feel like that should put him in the top ten for LBs.  A Vikings website that praises Everson Griffin for making the top 100 this year has this to say: All-World names like J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Ryan Kerrigan and Justin Houston are the only players to have brought down opposing quarterbacks more often than Griffen.

 

So non Skins affiliated places have no problem saying Kerrigan is "all world" and lumping him in with Watts, Miller and Houston

[beachboy757]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I believe Orakpo received franchise tag salary his last year here (I could be wrong, my rememberer is sporadic) but Orakpo is earning more then the 3 of Smith, Murphy and Gallette combined! It would foolhardy for us to pay him 4-8 times what his replacements are earning.

I actually don't have a problem with Smith, Murphy, or Gallette. The original comments were based on the harsh criticism Rak received here at the end of his tenure and now Kerrigan is seemingly getting the same treatment now(even from Chris Cooley). I do wish we could have kept Rak, but you are right that he was asking for too much money at the time and the team was too bad at that point to dish out huge cash like that.

[NoCalMike]

What our D-line is missing is a Justin Smith that allowed an Aldon Smith caliber player to look like an all-pro force of destruction.  

 

Having a one-trick pony on the line as a pass rusher isn't necessarily a bad thing if the trick they bring is elite and they play next to a beast.

 

The main issue with Kerrigan is that he peaked pretty early in his career and he has been about the same player the entire way through.  Part of it likely has to do with not playing among elite talent on the line, but since that hasn't changed, we can probably expect that again in 2017.  Also it seems like Kerrigan has that one monster game every season that elevates his season totals into the respectable category, where without that one game performance it would look average.

[MisterPinstripe]

8 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

The main issue with Kerrigan is that he peaked pretty early in his career and he has been about the same player the entire way through.  Part of it likely has to do with not playing among elite talent on the line, but since that hasn't changed, we can probably expect that again in 2017.  Also it seems like Kerrigan has that one monster game every season that elevates his season totals into the respectable category, where without that one game performance it would look average.

I agree, its hard for Kerrigan without someone else on the opposite side. He would benefit a lot from having another threat around.

 

I cant speak to the year before last, but last year he didn't have a sack the first 3 games and then the rest of the way the only game where he had more than 1 sack was the Eagles and he had 2.5. Dont think that's out of the realm of normal.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

The main issue with Kerrigan is that he peaked pretty early in his career and he has been about the same player the entire way through.  Part of it likely has to do with not playing among elite talent on the line, but since that hasn't changed, we can probably expect that again in 2017.  Also it seems like Kerrigan has that one monster game every season that elevates his season totals into the respectable category, where without that one game performance it would look average.

 

I like Kerrigan.  I don't think he's a great player but he's good to very good.  His durability I think is an underrated quality abut him. I think the one thing where he might actually be a tad worse versus early in his career is relating to being clutch.  I recall part of the narrative back then was Kerrigan showed up big in big games where Orkapo did not. I'd say in recent years, Kerrigan's reputation has dovetailed with Orkapo -- where you wonder sometimes where he is in big games.

[kost203]

15 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Kerrigan is a good football player, but Cooley is right he's not a game in game out playmaker and he doesn't change games. He really doesn't get double teamed very much and is often seen overrunning plays and biting on fakes. He's a Robin and we need a Batman pass rusher(those are very hard to find, after QB probably the hardest position to find).

hes going up against the rt, not lt as well.

[dyst]

Preston Smith needs to be a force this year. No more excuses.