Next Day Thread: Ramming Our Heads Against a Wall

[CobraCommander]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Specialists are an odd bunch.  One year they know what they're doing, the next they don't, then they do again, then they don't again.  And coaching actually seems to have little to do with it.

 

I think it was Suisham, who at times couldn't have kicked the ball into the Atlantic Ocean which standing in a rowboat 30 miles off the coast of Iceland while he was here, being coached by Danny Smith, went to Pittsburgh, coached by Danny Smith, and didn't miss for like 7 years.  It it wasn't Swishy, it was somebody.  

 

 

Reading his draft profile on NFL.com does not make me think this is new. For one thing he didn’t snap on punts for a while and it was determined he lacked consistent placement making the punter have to move around.

 

I don’t understand how that is someone you trade up for.

[profusion]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Right now if they try to put this all on him and say that the fact that we lost because he couldn't rise above all the losing this org has cast upon him, that's a lot. 

 

Absolutely. Howell is not the reason this team was a failure. For much of the season, he was just about the only good thing happened with it. For all his flaws, he got so little help.

 

I just hope, for his sake, that whatever's going on with him right now isn't permanent.

[Thinking Skins]

10 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Absolutely. Howell is not the reason this team was a failure. For much of the season, he was just about the only good thing happened with it. For all his flaws, he got so little help.

 

I just hope, for his sake, that whatever's going on with him right now isn't permanent.

I wish we had a running game yesterday with BRob. That would have been different. He had no help. It was all Sam until Jacoby came in. Then it was all Jacoby. We need a running game. 

[PolarExpress]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

We have so many holes. We knew that. But it’s hard to look at this roster and realize we can and need to upgrade basically everywhere aside from punter. 
 

I’m not being facetious. This roster is a mess.

I agree.  So much to fix, it’s overwhelming.  However, I am hoping that good coaching can help some of the players, along with better play calling. IMO, the players are playing with the exact energy/emotion that Ron is displaying.  I hope we get a good GM and Head Coach to bring some pride to this beaten down franchise.  Whoever the new decision makers are, I am fine with what they decide regarding the draft.  I posted right before the bye that Howell was visibly regressing.  I have no real feelings about whether Sam starts or not.  I just don’t know.  He has had a rough season and I thought he seemed extremely checked out during his post game interview.  It was like he couldn’t look into the camera and he mumbled most of his answers.  Can’t blame him.

 

I was disgusted watching the game.  I’m so sick of Ron acting like he forgot he was the head coach.  He should’ve taken responsibility for the loss.  Be a man Ron.  I don’t respect him one bit.  I just want him gone.

[UK_HOG]

Amid all the doom and gloom Ron threw a successful challenge flag. 

[“Misdirection”]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

Sam is Ramsey’d at this point. Holding the ball, happy feet, throwing off his back foot, missing open receivers, forcing passes. 
 

Brissett came in and looked like a veteran backup in garbage time. 
 

Im not sure why people are trying to make Brissett a thing but it’s painful.

 

Howell stunk and looks cooked. That doesn’t mean Brissett is much better because he had a 10 play drive with 8 of them from the 1.

To read that even kdawg appears to be jumping off the Howell train fills me with both sorrow and clarity lol

 

theres 3 games left to prove otherwise I suppose, but I’m finding peace with going QB in R1 the more Sam struggles down the stretch 

 

I mean we all thought the Texans had one of the worst rosters in the NFL coming into the season and all they do is draft a blue chip rookie QB and a blue chip DE and now they’re 8-6 and in the playoffs

[KDawg]

Just now, “Misdirection” said:

To read that even kdawg appears to be jumping off the Howell train fills me with both sorrow and clarity lol

 

theres 3 games left to prove otherwise I suppose, but I’m finding peace with going QB in R1 the more Sam struggles down the stretch 

 

I mean we all thought the Texans had one of the worst rosters in the NFL coming into the season and all they do is draft a blue chip rookie QB and a blue chip DE and now they’re 8-6 and in the playoffs

I’m not out on Howell… but given his regression and how skittish he looks it would be really difficult to pin the franchise on him next year if you’re a GM. 
 

 

[stoshuaj]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m not being facetious. This roster is a mess.

Don’t worry, just like every year come August around here people will tell you the roster is all better now (remember “who needs an O-line” guy?) and yell at you when you dare to project anything less than a .500 or better 

 

Im not being facetious either.

Edited December 18, 2023 by stoshuaj

[FuriousD]

Re: Cheeseman .. Washington continues to be a club where careers go to die. Been like that for decades now and darn near impossible to break the cycle. We can only hope Harris and his hires can figure it out.

 

Re: Howell .. Looking more and more likely the team will look to the draft for their QB of the future but if Howell’s career turns out to be above average backup, he’ll still be part of the long term solution and good value for a 5th rd pick

[skinsmania123]

9 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Re: Cheeseman .. Washington continues to be a club where careers go to die. 

And resurrected elsewhere.  How many kickers for example have we released only to see them be successful elsewhere?  I am sure some team will give the LS Cheeseman another shot somewhere. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I wish we had a running game yesterday with BRob. That would have been different. He had no help. It was all Sam until Jacoby came in. Then it was all Jacoby. We need a running game. 

You know what's somewhat fascinating though?  The last good game they had offensively was Seattle.  Howell was 29-44 for 312 yards, 3 sacks for 24 yards, 3 TDs and they were in the game to the end.  They ran the ball only 14 times for 68 yards.  They scored 26 points.  

 

I'll take that offensive output.

 

The second Giants game also had it's moments offensively, the issue was they turned the ball over 6 times.  Howell had 3 INTs, and there were 3 fumbles.  BUT, in the meantime, they put up 404 yards of offense.  Howell threw the ball 45 times.  They ran the ball 28 times.  

 

Then the last 3 games happened:

Dallas, they ran the ball. They actually came out trying to run the ball.  First 2 plays were runs. The second drive featured a number of runs.  They tried to be a much more balanced team.   They got wholloped.  

 

Miami, they tried to run the ball.  They actually ran it 28 times to passing it 24 times.  That didn't work out so well.

 

With the Rams, they tried to run but they really couldn't early.  It wasn't until the Rams basically sat back and said "do whatever gets you 5 yards" when they could do anything.

 

I think they've morphed back into the Turner offensive philosophy of run the ball and take shots rather than run an up-tempo quick game, get the ball out quickly.  I'm not sure why.  I wonder if it's because that's what Ron wants.  

 

I actually don't think a run game would have helped them yesterday.  I think what would have helped them is to get back to what was working, lots of quick passes on early downs, short and intermediate throws and move the pocket, and then run off of that.  When they've been at their best, that's what they've done.  

 

I think in trying to protect Howell, EB is actually doing him a disservice.  It feels like so many more of his passes are in known passing situations.  And with this OL, that's a loss almost 100% of the time. 

 

The other thing, they seem to have given up trying to get a first down on 1st and 2nd downs.  They're always trying to get to 3rd and short.  Instead of going for a first down earlier.  

 

And then when they get into 3rd and short, they take shots.  

 

I get that I've been a longer-term EB defender than some.  And I don't think he's an imbecile.  And WHY I think he's messing up is opposite of others.  I think they're running altogether too much to try and take pressure off of Howell when it's actually putting more pressure on him, because they're just not that good at running the ball. 

 

 

 

[method man]

1 hour ago, CobraCommander said:

Reading his draft profile on NFL.com does not make me think this is new. For one thing he didn’t snap on punts for a while and it was determined he lacked consistent placement making the punter have to move around.

 

I don’t understand how that is someone you trade up for.

Ron panicked after Thomas Fletcher was taken earlier in the round by the Panthers. Ironically, Fletcher never played for the Panthers and now plays for the Sea Dragons

[DWinzit]

45 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

And resurrected elsewhere.  How many kickers for example have we released only to see them be successful elsewhere?  I am sure some team will give the LS Cheeseman another shot somewhere. 

Watch him end out training with some high school coach and coming back to be a long term quality snapper. I just have such little faith in the coaching.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know what's somewhat fascinating though?  The last good game they had offensively was Seattle.  Howell was 29-44 for 312 yards, 3 sacks for 24 yards, 3 TDs and they were in the game to the end.  They ran the ball only 14 times for 68 yards.  They scored 26 points.  

 

I'll take that offensive output.

 

The second Giants game also had it's moments offensively, the issue was they turned the ball over 6 times.  Howell had 3 INTs, and there were 3 fumbles.  BUT, in the meantime, they put up 404 yards of offense.  Howell threw the ball 45 times.  They ran the ball 28 times.  

 

Then the last 3 games happened:

Dallas, they ran the ball. They actually came out trying to run the ball.  First 2 plays were runs. The second drive featured a number of runs.  They tried to be a much more balanced team.   They got wholloped.  

 

Miami, they tried to run the ball.  They actually ran it 28 times to passing it 24 times.  That didn't work out so well.

 

With the Rams, they tried to run but they really couldn't early.  It wasn't until the Rams basically sat back and said "do whatever gets you 5 yards" when they could do anything.

 

I think they've morphed back into the Turner offensive philosophy of run the ball and take shots rather than run an up-tempo quick game, get the ball out quickly.  I'm not sure why.  I wonder if it's because that's what Ron wants.  

 

I actually don't think a run game would have helped them yesterday.  I think what would have helped them is to get back to what was working, lots of quick passes on early downs, short and intermediate throws and move the pocket, and then run off of that.  When they've been at their best, that's what they've done.  

 

I think in trying to protect Howell, EB is actually doing him a disservice.  It feels like so many more of his passes are in known passing situations.  And with this OL, that's a loss almost 100% of the time. 

 

The other thing, they seem to have given up trying to get a first down on 1st and 2nd downs.  They're always trying to get to 3rd and short.  Instead of going for a first down earlier.  

 

And then when they get into 3rd and short, they take shots.  

 

I get that I've been a longer-term EB defender than some.  And I don't think he's an imbecile.  And WHY I think he's messing up is opposite of others.  I think they're running altogether too much to try and take pressure off of Howell when it's actually putting more pressure on him, because they're just not that good at running the ball. 

 

 

 

I think I agree with this. Sam is a rhythm player and he starts throwing with anticipation and making the tight window throws when he gets warmed up with quick completions

[RandyHolt]

The black cloud over dysfunctional Ron has ruined the ability of our future GM to grade Sam properly. I am no draftnik pro but I'd build a team by first getting LT and then QB, not 5DL and then a 5th round QB. Ron neglected the OL and Sam balled out like a boss as long as he could. At least now Sam is bailing the pocket (early and often) versus standing there like Ramsey in the headlights getting pummeled like a practice dummy.

 

I don't care what PFF says, the OL cannot handle blitzes, blitz looks, nor simple stunts so their middle of the road grade is laughable. Ron's OL is horrible and Sam holding the ball .15 second longer than a vet or functional orgs QB is simply life for a near rookie QB still finding his place in his 3rd offense in 3 years under a possibly extremely ? unqualified OC no other team wanted.

 

I'd be fine with the new GM not taking a QB at ~3OA and focus on the line. Later rounds toss the OC a bone his own project QB to keep him happy. You never strike gold unless you try,

Edited December 19, 2023 by RandyHolt

[ExoDus84]

2 hours ago, profusion said:

Whoever coaches Howell next (and wherever it is) will have to rebuild his confidence and fundamentals somewhat. He looked much sharper earlier in the season. Too many of his throws have been off, lately, and his decision-making seems to have suffered.

 

It's entirely possible he'd be better off with a change of scenery, leaving aside what's best for the Commanders.

 

Howell is on a 5th round rookie salary, and he's played well enough (very well in stretches) to warrant further development. There's zero reason for him to not be on the roster next year.

 

I've seen some hot takes that Sam shouldn't be around next year, and I just find that bewildering.

[Captain Wiggles]

41 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Watch him end out training with some high school coach and coming back to be a long term quality snapper. I just have such little faith in the coaching.

 

He gonna go to a team like the Ravens and become an All Pro long snapper for the next decade plus. We really are just a nfl farm team.  🤣

[gortiz]

how bad was the time management when we were on the goal line in the 4th? was it as bad as folks on twitter (e.g. warren sharp) are saying? 

 

[Thinking Skins]

57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know what's somewhat fascinating though?  The last good game they had offensively was Seattle.  Howell was 29-44 for 312 yards, 3 sacks for 24 yards, 3 TDs and they were in the game to the end.  They ran the ball only 14 times for 68 yards.  They scored 26 points.  

 

I'll take that offensive output.

 

The second Giants game also had it's moments offensively, the issue was they turned the ball over 6 times.  Howell had 3 INTs, and there were 3 fumbles.  BUT, in the meantime, they put up 404 yards of offense.  Howell threw the ball 45 times.  They ran the ball 28 times.  

 

Then the last 3 games happened:

Dallas, they ran the ball. They actually came out trying to run the ball.  First 2 plays were runs. The second drive featured a number of runs.  They tried to be a much more balanced team.   They got wholloped.  

 

Miami, they tried to run the ball.  They actually ran it 28 times to passing it 24 times.  That didn't work out so well.

 

With the Rams, they tried to run but they really couldn't early.  It wasn't until the Rams basically sat back and said "do whatever gets you 5 yards" when they could do anything.

 

I think they've morphed back into the Turner offensive philosophy of run the ball and take shots rather than run an up-tempo quick game, get the ball out quickly.  I'm not sure why.  I wonder if it's because that's what Ron wants.  

 

I actually don't think a run game would have helped them yesterday.  I think what would have helped them is to get back to what was working, lots of quick passes on early downs, short and intermediate throws and move the pocket, and then run off of that.  When they've been at their best, that's what they've done.  

 

I think in trying to protect Howell, EB is actually doing him a disservice.  It feels like so many more of his passes are in known passing situations.  And with this OL, that's a loss almost 100% of the time. 

 

The other thing, they seem to have given up trying to get a first down on 1st and 2nd downs.  They're always trying to get to 3rd and short.  Instead of going for a first down earlier.  

 

And then when they get into 3rd and short, they take shots.  

 

I get that I've been a longer-term EB defender than some.  And I don't think he's an imbecile.  And WHY I think he's messing up is opposite of others.  I think they're running altogether too much to try and take pressure off of Howell when it's actually putting more pressure on him, because they're just not that good at running the ball. 

 

 

 

I think the keys to the running game are BRob and the FB. When they're both playing I think it can do well. And provided a alternative in the passing game and protection for Sam. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, gortiz said:

how bad was the time management when we were on the goal line in the 4th? was it as bad as folks on twitter (e.g. warren sharp) are saying? 

 

To anyone not familiar with the boneheads that lead our team, it seemed as if they were actively tanking.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I almost forgot about the first time I’ve noticed Forbes in forever with his all time hold, where the Rams scored anyway.

 

🤣

 

[DWinzit]

18 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

He gonna go to a team like the Ravens and become an All Pro long snapper for the next decade plus. We really are just a nfl farm team.  🤣

I don't know, I see the Cheese more as a on the pro bowlers tour using the the two handed granny style tosses. He needs the children's bumpers in the gutters however...

[profusion]

44 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Howell is on a 5th round rookie salary, and he's played well enough (very well in stretches) to warrant further development. There's zero reason for him to not be on the roster next year.

 

I've seen some hot takes that Sam shouldn't be around next year, and I just find that bewildering.

 

If you're starting a rookie, you might not want last year's starter standing there on the sideline. It's enough pressure as-is.

 

Plus, Sam will have trade value, and this team needs all the picks it can get.

[NoVaSkins21]

Defense sucked badly which was not  surprising, but the Howell's performance and benching now leaves serious questions for the future.  If the new regime doesn't want him, this team is back to square one which sucks

Edited December 18, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[Thinking Skins]

My theory is that Sam is tired. Dude has the most reps in the league right now and his arm is probably just lagging. But he can't say that because this is his dream. He is going through his sophomore slump in his second 10 games. Dude will have like 2 seasons worth of starts. Not really but he's up there. I bet he's tired right now.