Next Day Thread: Ramming Our Heads Against a Wall

[mojo]

Poor time management and timeout usage has been a trademark of the Rivera era.  It's been awful since he got here.  It's so frustrating to watch.

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

This was infuriating and painful to watch:

I'm not a huge fan of Sharpe in general, I think he completely jumped the shark.  He also has the worst production value on his iPhone video streams.  

 

But he's not wrong.

 

It's also a "yeah duh" thing also.  It was clear to anybody watching the game they were screwing it up while they were screwing it up.  

 

I think I posted some version of "TEMPO!!!!" after every play in the gameday thread.  

 

So it doesn't take a self prescribed analytic genius with a bad moustache to point out how bad it was.

 

The guy who I'm sure was absolutely banging his head on a suite wall bloody and trying to get down to the field to take over was Eugene Shen.  It must have driven him completely insane.

 

Also what might have driven him insane: when they scored to pull within what should have been 7 minus Cheeseman, the analytics say you go for 2.  He was probably hollering at something to go for two.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

There was talk of how the run game would have been better with BRob, so I'm rewatching the highlights of the game because I'm a masochist, and I'm not sure that's the case. Limited plays to go through, but the coaching seems to be expecting our small in stature WR's to drive defenders that are much bigger than they are down the LoS. Curtis Samuel and Dotson can't do that. The defenders they were tasked with blocking at the LoS obviously weren't bothered, which meant the pulling OL had to pick up those blocks at the LoS with nobody doing anything to slow down the LB's and Safeties from crashing playside. Like...why? Samuel can't drive someone laterally down the LoS if he's 60 lbs lighter and 5 inches shorter. Of course Wylie whose pulling will have to pick that guy up. Maybe if Samuel was down blocking, but still not a good situation as Dotson would need help too.

 

On run plays where we had TE's blocking the bigger defenders instead of WR's, the run game looked fine.

 

I think Chris Paul got benched early, Forbes played a snap or two on random drives.

 

OL wasn't much better when Brissett came in, but he was making reads and throwing before pressure could get to him. Howell looks like he trusts nothing, and his accuracy looks worse. I'm ready to move on from Howell unless we seriously revamp the OL. WR talent could definitely be upgraded, but it doesn't matter if Howell is not going to read the defense and make throws when he's supposed to. For Howell to succeed, we'd need a dominant OL, which is a poor use of resources just to make 1 player not suck.

 

Maybe he'll turn things around in the next few weeks, but I don't think coaching is going to help him any.

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

How the hell Mike Shanahan ended up with a .375 after 4 years is crazy.  You can forgive the first 6-10 coming off the Zorn years a little bit.  But 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13.  Wowza.  To have a .375 winning percentage WHEN 

 

You know, I had forgotten, Kevin Sheehan had (maybe still does) have Shanahan on his podcast a bunch.  Maybe it's Kevin just likes to have old Redskin failed coaches on and then trusts what they have to say.  He's been leading the Jay Gruden Image Rehabilitation Tour.  He did it with Mike too.  Maybe he'll do it with Ron in 2-3 years.  It would be on-brand.  And Ron's going to leave with a better record than Mike, and just slightly worse than Jay.  Though I * Jay that he did most of his winning with Cousins and McVay helping him. I'm not sure what he really had to do except hire bad defensive coordinators in 2015/2016.  Without Cousins and McVay, Jay would have been slightly better than Zorn.  

 

Also, if we lose out (fingers crossed) that .414 will drop to .3880.

 

SLIGHTLY ahead of Mike and Jim.  

[Xameil]

21 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

And resurrected elsewhere.  How many kickers for example have we released only to see them be successful elsewhere?  I am sure some team will give the LS Cheeseman another shot somewhere. 

Thats because as an organization and most of the fans here, people call for peoples heads if they have a bad pass, or kick, or their shoe is untied.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

How the hell Mike Shanahan ended up with a .375 after 4 years is crazy.  You can forgive the first 6-10 coming off the Zorn years a little bit.  But 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13.  Wowza.  To have a .375 winning percentage WHEN 

 

You know, I had forgotten, Kevin Sheehan had (maybe still does) have Shanahan on his podcast a bunch.  Maybe it's Kevin just likes to have old Redskin failed coaches on and then trusts what they have to say.  He's been leading the Jay Gruden Image Rehabilitation Tour.  He did it with Mike too.  Maybe he'll do it with Ron in 2-3 years.  It would be on-brand.  And Ron's going to leave with a better record than Mike, and just slightly worse than Jay.  Though I * Jay that he did most of his winning with Cousins and McVay helping him. I'm not sure what he really had to do except hire bad defensive coordinators in 2015/2016.  Without Cousins and McVay, Jay would have been slightly better than Zorn.  

 

Also, if we lose out (fingers crossed) that .414 will drop to .3880.

 

SLIGHTLY ahead of Mike and Jim.  

 

It's the perils of having no QB's.

 

2010 - Shanahan tried to trade up for Sam Bradford in a 1 QB draft. Rams of course said no. A few weeks before the draft they traded for a washed up McNabb (was this Snyder's demand?)

2011 - Panthers were always taking Cam Newton at #1.  A bunch of other QB's were taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds, but this wound up being just a 1 QB draft. So I guess that was good talent eval from Shanahan.

2012 - RG3 trade

2013 - RG3's still too hurt to play like he used to, and can't be a normal QB.

 

Sometimes you just don't have anybody at QB, and there are no real options.

 

The next Front Office and Head Coach are going to want to draft a QB unless Howell is on fire to end the season.

[mojo]

Shanny also had to deal with that Cap penalty as well.  Do you remember some of those teams? Washed Larry Johnson at RB, Washed McNabb behind center, Washed Joey Galloway and undrafted Anthony Armstrong as our starting WR's. It was pretty bad.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Sad that on one of those six snaps was the most obvious and egregious hold I’ve seen in some time.  Reminded me of playing football against 9 year olds at a family reunion and they basically just tackle to try and stop me.  🤣

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sad that on one of those six snaps was the most obvious and egregious hold I’ve seen in some time.  Reminded me of playing football against 9 year olds at a family reunion and they basically just tackle to try and stop me.  🤣

    Forbes has to easily be the worst corner in the mix of the first and 2nd rounders this year.

 

I’ll give him more time but if it keeps going in this direction, Ron’s drafts are aging just as bad as Vinny and Bruce 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

    Forbes has to easily be the worst corner in the mix of the first and 2nd rounders this year.

 

I’ll give him more time but if it keeps going in this direction, Ron’s drafts are aging just as bad as Vinny and Bruce 

It’s picks like these that make it harder to complete a quick rebuild. 😕

[Jumbo]

VoR...it's understandable that Jay's current media presence has rekindled your Mt. Vesuvius level of gruden hate/obsession. 😄

 

I remember actually moderating the endless proliferation of it in every thread for many months years ago. I mention it now because in recent months you're relapsing. 😛

 

Consider letting it go, or at least to a lesser level of frequency.🙂

 

We get it. Next to Charles Manson, he's the worst. 😉

 

 

[method man]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This makes sense. Quan has been more of a nickel corner vs a safety and he played a 100% of the snaps Sunday. So if nickel is out, you are sitting one of BSJ or Kendall. At this point, Kendall has done what he needs to do to get a nice FA deal for himself next season. I’d just ask him if he is willing to go on IR w some phantom injury

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, mojo said:

Shanny also had to deal with that Cap penalty as well.  Do you remember some of those teams? Washed Larry Johnson at RB, Washed McNabb behind center, Washed Joey Galloway and undrafted Anthony Armstrong as our starting WR's. It was pretty bad.

All those players you listed were before the cap penalty. But you are right. WR2 in 2011 was Jabar Gaffney, who actually was pretty okay, but it was a sign of the times. But Jammal Brown was also an albatross Shanny weighed himself down with while Polumbus started most of the games.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s picks like these that make it harder to complete a quick rebuild. 😕

Agree.

 

The reason why I am optimistic about let’s say a 2 year rebuild is good franchises can do it like that.  
 

We are so accustomed for it to take forever because we draft poorly.

 

If u draft well and use FA well it should not take forever to do this. But will see 

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Dan T. said:

This was infuriating and painful to watch:

 

 

I know this isn’t what happened and that what makes it hilarious is that Rivera is actually trying his hardest to win in this example above…but this is the first time I’ve ever thought to myself, hmm, maybe Rivera does know that Harris wants us to lose out. Again, not what’s happening, no incentive, blah blah. But this is so asinine that it actually made the thought cross my mind, which has never happened before. 

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

There was talk of how the run game would have been better with BRob, so I'm rewatching the highlights of the game because I'm a masochist, and I'm not sure that's the case. Limited plays to go through, but the coaching seems to be expecting our small in stature WR's to drive defenders that are much bigger than they are down the LoS. Curtis Samuel and Dotson can't do that. The defenders they were tasked with blocking at the LoS obviously weren't bothered, which meant the pulling OL had to pick up those blocks at the LoS with nobody doing anything to slow down the LB's and Safeties from crashing playside. Like...why? Samuel can't drive someone laterally down the LoS if he's 60 lbs lighter and 5 inches shorter. Of course Wylie whose pulling will have to pick that guy up. Maybe if Samuel was down blocking, but still not a good situation as Dotson would need help too.

 

On run plays where we had TE's blocking the bigger defenders instead of WR's, the run game looked fine.

 

I think Chris Paul got benched early, Forbes played a snap or two on random drives.

 

OL wasn't much better when Brissett came in, but he was making reads and throwing before pressure could get to him. Howell looks like he trusts nothing, and his accuracy looks worse. I'm ready to move on from Howell unless we seriously revamp the OL. WR talent could definitely be upgraded, but it doesn't matter if Howell is not going to read the defense and make throws when he's supposed to. For Howell to succeed, we'd need a dominant OL, which is a poor use of resources just to make 1 player not suck.

 

Maybe he'll turn things around in the next few weeks, but I don't think coaching is going to help him any.

File me under: I bet Brissett doesn’t hold up as well when gameplanned for and the game is competitive. The OL is bad.

 

Also, file me under: Howell has been Ramsey’d and doesn’t trust a thing that’s happening and that is making the OL look even worse, which is remarkable. He is not reading. He’s watching pressure and heaving. Can’t do that. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So let me get this straight. Our first round corner, who was drafted to play corner…

 

He was benched for our second round safety/slot to play corner… But who was really lining up a lot as a Will linebacker.

 

I’m intrigued.

Edited December 19, 2023 by KDawg

[skinsmania123]

3 hours ago, Xameil said:

Thats because as an organization and most of the fans here, people call for peoples heads if they have a bad pass, or kick, or their shoe is untied.

 

That is actually a good point especially regarding the kickers.  Cheeseman has been especially, and consistently poor this year. 

[Ghost of]

 

2 hours ago, Jumbo said:

VoR...it's understandable that Jay's current media presence has rekindled your Mt. Vesuvius level of gruden hate/obsession. 😄

 

I remember actually moderating the endless proliferation of it in every thread for many months years ago. I mention it now because in recent months you're relapsing. 😛

 

Consider letting it go, or at least to a lesser level of frequency.🙂

 

We get it. Next to Charles Manson, he's the worst. 😉

 

 

I don't really remember how active I was at the time anymore, but I recall wanting to fire Gruden and hire McVay right out (people were so effusive in praise of him, I thought that unlikely he wasn't at least somewhat talented.)  Gruden actually killed my engagement with the team and considering we were usually mediocre rather than god awful during his tenure, that is saying something about that level of futility one feels. 

3 hours ago, Xameil said:

Thats because as an organization and most of the fans here, people call for peoples heads if they have a bad pass, or kick, or their shoe is untied.

 

Nonsense that you try to sneak in the fan critique with the organizational one.  The organization let go of some of those great kickers because they really were struggling, missed key kicks at critical times, or sometimes really was just stupidly impatient. Tell me, were fans:

a. Wanting RG3 pulled out vs Seattle once he started limping again?

or 

b. Wanting him to stay him, damn the next several years and his long-term health?

 

Who was responsible for that boneheaded decision?

What fan revolt led to getting rid of...Graham Gano, Kai Forbath, Dustin Hopkins and many others? 

 

If anything the last decade plus tells me that fans are too patient.  A few nitwits on a message board being overly critical or lacking in perspective is not leading to these decisions, nor is it really that important.

[Warhead36]

In fairness to Martin I think he's actually played pretty well.

[Dark Acre]

22 hours ago, Ghost of said:

If anything the last decade plus tells me that fans are too patient.  

Jim Fassell says hi.

[Xameil]

23 hours ago, Ghost of said:

 

 

I don't really remember how active I was at the time anymore, but I recall wanting to fire Gruden and hire McVay right out (people were so effusive in praise of him, I thought that unlikely he wasn't at least somewhat talented.)  Gruden actually killed my engagement with the team and considering we were usually mediocre rather than god awful during his tenure, that is saying something about that level of futility one feels. 

Nonsense that you try to sneak in the fan critique with the organizational one.  The organization let go of some of those great kickers because they really were struggling, missed key kicks at critical times, or sometimes really was just stupidly impatient. Tell me, were fans:

a. Wanting RG3 pulled out vs Seattle once he started limping again?

or 

b. Wanting him to stay him, damn the next several years and his long-term health?

 

Who was responsible for that boneheaded decision?

What fan revolt led to getting rid of...Graham Gano, Kai Forbath, Dustin Hopkins and many others? 

 

If anything the last decade plus tells me that fans are too patient.  A few nitwits on a message board being overly critical or lacking in perspective is not leading to these decisions, nor is it really that important.

I think you are missing my point. I know the organization makes the snap decisions. My comment is more to the posters here that call for someone to he cut because of a couple bad plays, then **** and moan when that same player ends up kicking a clutch FG against us.

[method man]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:44 PM, Warhead36 said:

In fairness to Martin I think he's actually played pretty well.

He’s had some notable miscues but shows off playmaking ability with some elite athletic traits. I am excited for him next year and feel he can really elevate as a well rounded nickel player if we bring a real DB coach in here