Next Day Thread: Geno Way! We got Hawked.

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't want any pressure on the new GM to hire from within.  Zero pressure.

This, this, 1000x this. 

 

Can we do it right for a change? No GM is going to come in with the HC already entrenched. I want an independent GM independently picking picking a top HC. We haven't done that since...

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm all in on Howell.  

 

And while I know the two running backs had good games receiving yesterday, I'm more than comfortable with EB having Howell throw it 75% of the time or whatever the percentage is. I've got no interest in watching butterfingers Gibson and the non-homerun threat Robinson try to run it.  We've finally got a QB that can sling it, let him rip.  

 

Fix the O-line this offseason in a big way, give him protection and get some linebackers and I think we can be okay.

[profusion]

I figured the Seahawks would win by more than they actually did. Their offense was mostly inept.

 

Howell is almost singlehandedly keeping the Commanders in games, at this point. I don't have any reservations about having him as the starting QB next year. I have to think he's an attraction for potential HC/GM candidates.

 

As for the hiring thing, I don't want Harris even thinking idly about HC candidates until he's hired a new GM. This is an excellent window for Harris to make a huge splash over the next few seasons, with a good QB on a rookie deal, a bunch of draft picks next March, and tons of cap room. Don't screw it up with a bad hiring process.

Edited November 13, 2023 by profusion

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

This, this, 1000x this. 

 

Can we do it right for a change? No GM is going to come in with the HC already entrenched. I want an independent GM independently picking picking a top HC. We haven't done that since...

We will. Its been Harris's MO everywhere he's been.

[Riggo#44]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

We will. Its been Harris's MO everywhere he's been.

I know...

[Ball Security]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My issue with canning these guys is we will get a branch off of that tree to finish this season.  I want a clean break.  i don't want round two of hey maybe Callahan should be the guy.

 

If we want to clean house, we have I think a better shot to let this go to the painful end.

 

 

 

Bienemy is on a two year deal, correct? After week 17, I’d clean house except for him. Hire the GM, and do the coaching interviews. Let EB interview for other HC openings. (Not saying it will happen, but Howell’s success will reflect well on him). If he takes a HC, we get a 2025 comp pick, correct?

 

EB under contract as OC shouldn’t have any impact on the HC search and selection.

 

[Llevron]

Just now, Ball Security said:

Bienemy is on a two year deal, correct? After week 17, I’d clean house except for him. Hire the GM, and do the coaching interviews. Let EB interview for other HC openings. (Not saying it will happen, but Howell’s success will reflect well on him). If he takes a HC, we get a 2025 comp pick, correct?

 

EB under contract as OC shouldn’t have any impact on the HC search and selection.

 

 

As much as I like EB (this week) I'm not sure keeping him doesn't hurt our HC hunt. What if the best coach out there just doesn't like him? Or what if he thinks the system we run doesn't fully utilize....something. I think have an OC in place before HC is a drag we don't need. EB wants to be a HC. I think keeping a guy in the building knowing he already wants the next guys job is a set up for failure. 

 

He can always re-interview for the position. Hell he would have a leg up in that situation cause he knows all the players. I think thats more than fair imo. 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

As much as I like EB (this week) I'm not sure keeping him doesn't hurt our HC hunt. What if the best coach out there just doesn't like him? Or what if he thinks the system we run doesn't fully utilize....something. I think have an OC in place before HC is a drag we don't need. EB wants to be a HC. I think keeping a guy in the building knowing he already wants the next guys job is a set up for failure. 

 

He can always re-interview for the position. Hell he would have a leg up in that situation cause he knows all the players. I think thats more than fair imo. 

It wouldn’t have to have an impact on the coaching search. Just because he’s under contract from the end of the season to the time of the next coaching selection, doesn’t mean he couldn’t be fired at that time (or even a few weeks later in the hiring cycle) if he’s not part of the new HC’s plan.

 

Not firing the day after game 17 would keep the potential comp pick in play. 
 

In no way, would I sell the HC position as “you have to keep EB as OC”. That would be Snyder-esque.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

It wouldn’t have to have an impact on the coaching search. Just because he’s under contract from the end of the season to the time of the next coaching selection, doesn’t mean he couldn’t be fired at that time (or even a few weeks later in the hiring cycle) if he’s not part of the new HC’s plan.

 

Not firing the day after game 17 would keep the potential comp pick in play. 
 

In no way, would I sell the HC position as “you have to keep EB as OC”. That would be Snyder-esque.

 

Well good point. If they communicate it well enough I don't think I disagree with you. 

 

I dont understand the comp pick thing though. Can you explain that to me? 

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

In no way, would I sell the HC position as “you have to keep EB as OC”. That would be Snyder-esque.

Worked out so well last time...

[Ball Security]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

Well good point. If they communicate it well enough I don't think I disagree with you. 

 

I dont understand the comp pick thing though. Can you explain that to me? 

From what I understand, if you have a minority coordinator or position coach that gets hired into a HC spot, you get a comp pick at the end of the third round. For example, the Niners got two for this year. One is for D Ryans who went to Houston and the other was for a front office promotion. (One of those was sent to us for Young).

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

From what I understand, if you have a minority coordinator or position coach that gets hired into a HC spot, you get a comp pick at the end of the third round. For example, the Niners got two for this year. One is for D Ryans who went to Houston and the other was for a front office promotion. (One of those was sent to us for Young).

 

Oh wow I did not know that was a thing. Interesting. I feel bad saying I would almost do it just for that. 

[oraphus]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

From what I understand, if you have a minority coordinator or position coach that gets hired into a HC spot, you get a comp pick at the end of the third round. For example, the Niners got two for this year. One is for D Ryans who went to Houston and the other was for a front office promotion. (One of those was sent to us for Young).

 

no way EB is getting a HC job after this year. I am not even that sure that he is a good O coordinator

[Ball Security]

9 minutes ago, oraphus said:

 

no way EB is getting a HC job after this year. I am not even that sure that he is a good O coordinator

There’s no way that they can get a comp pick if they fire him right after the last game. That’s definitive. EB getting a HC job after coordinating a fifth round second year QB to a league leading passer is non zero. There is no downside to the team to take that approach.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Ball Security

[PlayAction]

EB is from the Andy Reid tree.  Andy Reid didn't like to call running plays even when he had the most productive RBs in Philly.  EB has to make due with the roster that he was given.  He's also learning how to be the play-caller.   I don't know whether he'd make a good HC.  That's not really the issue at hand though.  He could be an interim HC and be required to interview for the permanent position at the end of the season.  It works for both parties.  He gets the audition and the team gets rid of RR and the DC now.  Front office has to stay in place until the end of the season.

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

He's also learning how to be the play-caller.

 

I really dislike this excuse. Ben Johnson moved right in as OC and elevated the Lions immediately, with Jared Goff at QB.

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Every time I hear someone ranting about firing Rivera now and giving the reigns to Bieniemy, all I hear...

 

And I said this on Twitter--Bieniemy is pure Ashburn Syndrome. I don't think anyone else in the league would hire him as an HC now...well, maybe the Raiders.

See, I disagree with this, wholeheartedledly. Maybe I believed this before this season and even that was a stretch because I didn't even really care. But now that he is operating an offense and doing it well and developing a QB and we can say one of the top young QBs in the game, definitely one of the top 2 QBs in the 2022 draft class is something he can hang his hat on. 

 

I go back to the way this place said similar things about Kyle Shanahan and how nobody would want him and how he was nepetism and was too stuck up to get a HC job and all the other things said about him and now look at what he has built out in SF. Or forget that. Look at what he did in Cleveland. Look at what he did in Atlanta. Look at what he did in Houston before coming here.

 

EB now has a resume outside of Andy and that is what was holding him up - that people were saying he was using Andy as a crutch. Now he's not. And he's shinging in the light. Even if you want to say its not shining. We're better in yards per play, we're better at league rank in offense in both yards and points (where we're 16th in both) we were 20th and 24th last year. Better at getting first downs 11th vs 18th, tied in NY/A (with the sacks at 23), better at scoring percentage 24 vs 28. 

 

Its not an elite offense yet but he has a second year QB that he is developing. 

[Riggo#44]

19 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

There’s no way that they can get a comp pick if they fire him right after the last game. That’s definitive. EB getting a HC job after coordinating a fifth round second year QB to a league leading passer is non zero. There is no downside to the team to take that approach.

 

C'mon Raiders!

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really dislike this excuse. Ben Johnson moved right in as OC and elevated the Lions immediately, with Jared Goff at QB.

EB has only been an OC/Asst HC for 5 years now and suffered it under Andy Ried, He just needs a few more years and he should be able to figure it out.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

I go back to the way this place said similar things about Kyle Shanahan and how nobody would want him and how he was nepetism and was too stuck up to get a HC job and all the other things said about him and now look at what he has built out in SF. Or forget that. Look at what he did in Cleveland. Look at what he did in Atlanta. Look at what he did in Houston before coming here.

 

Shanahan hadn't interviewed for a dozen Head Coaching jobs before getting the job in SF, that I am aware of. Shanny is also 12 years younger than Bieniemy, so the comparison doesn't really fit. (He also was in Cleveland for a year and smartly bolted when they drafter Manziel).

 

Something @Voice_of_Reason said that made sense at the time, but got me thinking more. We were discussing why we aren't getting the ball more to our WRs--and there are a variety of reasons, not solely Bieniemy's fault. But his contention was that defenses are taking away or WRs. Fair. But why are we not counter punching? Why are we not scheming our receivers open like many other teams? It took him half a season to adjust and make changes to the OL that has lead to Howell's surging lately. Gates was awful at C. They put Larsen and Paul in and the protection was much better. Sure, he gets credit for that, but why did it take so long? He seems very slow to adapt and adjust. If our Head Coach didn't resemble Abe Simpson at this point, I'd be fine with him as OC, but man, I have seen nothing that screams he's our next Head Coach.

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

EB has only been an OC/Asst HC for 5 years now and suffered it under Andy Ried, He just needs a few more years and he should be able to figure it out.

 

So he's applying Ron's roster building approach?

[Koolblue13]

Howell also benefits from having the same QB coach for two years in a row.

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Howell also benefits from having the same QB coach for two years in a row.

 

Is he still working with Zampese? He has a new QB coach in Tavita Pritchard but Zampese is still technically on staff.  

[Riggo#44]

I want this. This kind of creativity and open-mindedness.

 

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Is he still working with Zampese? He has a new QB coach in Tavita Pritchard but Zampese is still technically on staff.  

People are giving credit to Bieniemy, which is not unfair. But, as I recall, Prithcard was highly praised this offseason as a future OC.

[London Kev]

General thoughts and waffle from across the pond.

 

The O-line has been playing better lately, but they are still bad and need at least two additions to even get to an acceptable level.

 

Because of the O-line limitations we are definitely throwiing quicker, shorter passes and this has resulted in the WRs not having time to get open. I think that WR play has also dropped in quality recently, yes, even Terry (and I never thought that I would ever say that).

I like that we are throwing more to the RBs. Logan Thomas looks healthy again but does he ever get any YAC?

 

Limiting ourselves to five rushes for ten yards (2.0 YPC) in the first half is totally unacceptable. We did finally start running again in the second half and got 58 yards on nine carries (6.4 YPC). I'm on the fence regarding Bieniemy, but he calls far too many passes for my liking.

 

I understand why we traded Sweat and Young but to say we haven't missed them is not true IMO. One sack and one TFL by the D-line in the last two games is poor. LB play continues to struggle and I don't think that our DBs are playing up to their talent level. Is this a coaching issue? probably.

I really like St-Juste but I wish he would stop flexing after every tackle like he just scored a game winning pick-six.

 

I don't know why we haven't replaced Cheeseman already. His bad snaps are going to cost us a game. Luckily Way has got great hands.

 

I'm totally out on Paddleboat Ron and Jack Del Taco. I couldn't care less if they were both sacked today or after our shiny new GM has fully assessed the situation, but I have no doubt that they are both out of here.

 

We could have won yesterday but as a team we lack consistency. There's always one missed block, one missed tackle, one false start, one bad snap, one bad throw or one dropped catch, and they all add up.

We're just not good enough to overcome these constant mistakes, (or maybe it's these constant mistakes that makes us not good enough?).

I guess that's what seperates good teams from bad teams.

 

Speaking about bad teams; at least we ain't the giants, lol.

[illone]

17 hours ago, KDawg said:

Offense

 

The OL is our code red spot. Has to be corrected. Once that happens, and some more consistent coaching the sky is the limit. 

 

 

Do you think this is correctable this season with coaching or player rotations, or are you talking more about correcting it with future draft picks (or FA acquisitions/coaching changes) that arent on the team yet?

 

I feel like I agree with your code red status, but I also dont think it will take much to improve the unit.  Ron makes it seem way harder than it is even though I will give him credit for the Cosmi pick. Would like to see more from Stromberg as we cant say anything definitive about him yet with only 20 or so snaps this season, so not sure if this team will be involved in the center market this upcoming offseason.

 

I would not be mad if this team moved up or down for the best or 2nd best left tackle in the upcoming draft. I also wouldnt be mad if they drafted more than one at the T position as I see Wylie as the worst player, unless the plan is to move Cosmi back outside and target interior linemen. 

 

How do you see this getting corrected?