Next Day Thread: Geno Way! We got Hawked.

[oraphus]

9 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I am curious are EB doubters/haters happy with Sam's development? 

 

Sure EB was painfully slow to adjust to the OL's failures but Sam's development has FAR exceeded my expectations and EB deserves some credit. It may be just getting tons of passing reps when other OC of yesteryear would run run short pass to nurture the fragile QB. EB said **** it you are learning best by passing, not handing it off. Ripped the bandaid right off vs wasting 3 years of nurturing development to only then to learn they can't pass when flushed out of the pocket.  Sam's first game under Ron's control? A paltry 11 completions - is that low volume truly best?

 

Nature over Nurture Eric; Nature always wins.

 

Now how much of said development is on EB is a guess. Many can certainly argue Sam just has it.  And I do think getting EB focused Sam in on studying Mahomes to prep for his style of offense, which is a big? part of his development that otherwise EB can't take credit for, unless he told Sam to do it.

Does EB get some credit for Sams development.... sure... some. But his job is not "QB Developer" 

" you play, to win, the game!"  As an OC i see a lot of short comings.

1. I have no doubt he was the driving factor in Wash signing Willie - when pretty much everyone knew he sucked except for one game. 

2. His boneheadedly slow adjustment to play-calling and O line switch. WTF does it take 9 weeks to see that Oline as whole is terrible, and especially center and guard suck when you have replacements on the roster? 

3. The amount of sacks Sam took is at least half on EB... again because he wouldn't adjust his playcalling 

 

He is actually lucky that Sam has a short memory and seems unshakable.. of he had a bit more of Wentz in him, Briset would already be starting. 

Just because he decided to call 80% passes is not enough to give him full credit, especially when taking all the other OC failures in to account

[Rocky21]

21 hours ago, HigSkin said:

In all fairness EB's grade should be given a full season with Howell.  I know a lot of people want everybody fired and EB to take over. 

 

IMO, that would stunt Howell's growth with more attention by EB given to the HC position and all the other BS that goes with it.

 

 

 

I don’t think a lot of people want EB to take over 😄

[Thinking Skins]

13 hours ago, oraphus said:

Does EB get some credit for Sams development.... sure... some. But his job is not "QB Developer" 

" you play, to win, the game!"  As an OC i see a lot of short comings.

1. I have no doubt he was the driving factor in Wash signing Willie - when pretty much everyone knew he sucked except for one game. 

2. His boneheadedly slow adjustment to play-calling and O line switch. WTF does it take 9 weeks to see that Oline as whole is terrible, and especially center and guard suck when you have replacements on the roster? 

3. The amount of sacks Sam took is at least half on EB... again because he wouldn't adjust his playcalling 

 

He is actually lucky that Sam has a short memory and seems unshakable.. of he had a bit more of Wentz in him, Briset would already be starting. 

Just because he decided to call 80% passes is not enough to give him full credit, especially when taking all the other OC failures in to account

This is grading a teacher for the kids failing the test. He was giving them the concepts and it's not like the second line is better, Howell is better. 

 

Those scramble drills they did worked. But sometimes maybe Howell would take his eyes off downfield or a receiver would run a wrong route or somebody would miss a block. Lots of things. Now they're paying off and that Sanchez video talks about it and how coordinators are you learning to not blitz him like that twice. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Jonathan Allen slipped a gold chain with a cross pendant over his head, then looked up and gave the go-ahead.

“I’m ready,” he said, prompting a circle of reporters in the Seahawks’ visiting locker room to gather closer.

 

 

When the camera lights turned on, Allen gave a short monologue about thanking God during bad times as well as good times, then told reporters he had nothing further to say. He turned back toward his locker without taking any questions.

 

In the Commanders’ 29-26 loss to the Seahawks Sunday, Washington’s defense allowed 489 yards to a Seattle team that had topped 450 yards in a game only once in the last two years.

The same unit gave up 40 points to the Chicago Bears earlier in the season.

 

And over the past three games, it’s collected only three sacks.

 

Washington’s secondary has been the prime culprit in the team’s defensive woes, allowing big completions and committing costly penalties. But the defensive line has had some of the more confounding, yet persistent, issues this season.

Washington traded away starting defensive ends Montez Sweat and Chase Young before the Oct. 31 deadline, knowing it wouldn’t be able to keep all of its top talent on the line for the long term. The Commanders had already signed Allen to a new deal in 2021 and re-upped with fellow tackle Daron Payne on a four-year, $90 million contract in March.

The two had become the crux of the defense and one of the more formidable defensive-line tandems in the league. But lately, Allen and Payne have struggled to have the same game-altering impact they once had.

 

Allen had a quarterback pressure rate of 11.9 percent in the first five games of the season, but over the past five games, that rate fell to 7.6 percent. In that span, he notched four quarterback hits and one sack.

Payne hasn’t laid a hit on an opposing quarterback since Week 5 and hasn’t recorded a sack since Week 2. His pressure rate the past two games, against the Patriots and Seahawks, was 2.6 percent.

Those stats aren’t the only measures of a defensive lineman’s impact, and they don’t account for the extra attention Allen and Payne may draw in the wake of the trades of Sweat and Young; opposing offensive lines can devote more resources to defending the two tackles, knowing there’s less of a threat on the edge.

 

But amid the Commanders’ defensive skid this year, their pass rush as a whole has been flat. And the spark Allen and Payne so often created on the interior has been noticeably missing.

[KDawg]

I don't love our route spacing. That needs to improve.

 

Part of that may be "language" with a first year OC, but our receivers were much better spacing wise under Turner.

 

Or did Terry and Jahan both magically regress this year? Terry can be explained: Turf toe. Jahan?

 

There is something going on. Not sure it's on EB. But there is something else. Both of our top receivers are looking less than they have, spacing is way off... 

 

And again, it could be purely based on new coordinator, new language, new concepts. 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don't love our route spacing. That needs to improve.

 

Part of that may be "language" with a first year OC, but our receivers were much better spacing wise under Turner.

 

Or did Terry and Jahan both magically regress this year? Terry can be explained: Turf toe. Jahan?

 

There is something going on. Not sure it's on EB. But there is something else. Both of our top receivers are looking less than they have, spacing is way off... 

 

And again, it could be purely based on new coordinator, new language, new concepts. 

I am remembering correctly that Turner was getting dinged a lot for not using spacing well?

 

And that at the beginning of the season EB was praised for better spacing?

 

They poor spacing has been very evident the past few weeks as they seem to stay removed from the run game and push the short passing game

[KDawg]

Just now, DWinzit said:

I am remembering correctly that Turner was getting dinged a lot for not using spacing well?

 

And that at the beginning of the season EB was praised for better spacing?

 

They poor spacing has been very evident the past few weeks as they seem to stay removed from the run game and push the short passing game

 

Turner had relatively good spacing. But there were times (and it seemed once or twice a game) where receivers were on top of each other. It feels more frequent now.

[DWinzit]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Turner had relatively good spacing. But there were times (and it seemed once or twice a game) where receivers were on top of each other. It feels more frequent now.

It has been more noticeable over the past few games. This is one thing you never see with Andy R offenses so you would think it would not frequently occur with EB...

[Conn]

30 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is grading a teacher for the kids failing the test. He was giving them the concepts and it's not like the second line is better, Howell is better. 

 

Those scramble drills they did worked. But sometimes maybe Howell would take his eyes off downfield or a receiver would run a wrong route or somebody would miss a block. Lots of things. Now they're paying off and that Sanchez video talks about it and how coordinators are you learning to not blitz him like that twice. 

This OL configuration is absolutely noticeably better. But even more importantly, the playcalling is more tailored to hiding our weaknesses (over the last month especually) by utilizing more screens and quick passing concepts with hot outlets for Howell. That wasn’t happening hardly ever over the first month+ of the season. Howell has also improved, yes. So has the OL we’re starting now and most noticeably to me, the playcalling. 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

It has been more noticeable over the past few games. This is one thing you never see with Andy R offenses so you would think it would not frequently occur with EB...

 

Playcalling has appropriately shrunk the field to accommodate the bad Oline.

As such the spacing problem is more pronounced as we have less space to operate in.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Playcalling has appropriately shrunk the field to accommodate the bad Oline.

As such the spacing problem is more pronounced as we have less space to operate in.

This is simply false. Route spacing is still route spacing.

 

Two guys shouldn't be on top of each other.

[Warhead36]

We dont do a good job isolating guys in space either. Theres always lots of traffic in Howells throwing lanes.

 

There are definitely some scheme issues but also our OLs inability to hold up for very long holds us back. But our WRs also need to win 1 on 1 matchups in man coverage more when other teams are all out blitzing. 

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

This is simply false. Route spacing is still route spacing.

 

Two guys shouldn't be on top of each other.

 

I (looks for good words) vehemently dissent that idea.

[KDawg]

38 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I (looks for good words) vehemently dissent that idea.

So… they’re supposed to run routes on top of each other?

[FootballZombie]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So… they’re supposed to run routes on top of each other?

 

Nah, maybe I worded stance wrong.

 

 

The spacing has been an issue the whole season, but early on we were running a lot of long developing plays.

Now we are making more short routes available to Howell and the ball is getting out quicker.

This leaves less time for our pass catchers to operate, and naturally a smaller theater to operate in.

This make the same spacing issue easier to identify, as conditions are optimized to show it off in a better light.

 

When guys point out the spacing issue is more noticeable in recent weeks, I believe it is because the situation has been optimized to more easily demonstrate what was already a problem, not necessarily that the problem has gotten worse.

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

^^ As long as the pressure and sack numbers stay where they are over the last 3 games, it really doesn't matter if they pass on every down.  

 

I really wish they would have converted on one of the 3 straight 3rd and 3's they had against the Seahawks.  They use quick game and the run game to get to 3rd and 3 on three straight drives, and they had an OL miscommunication sack, a drop on a tough throw and an incompletion.  

 

If they hit on any of those, it would have extended one of the drives in the second quarter which would have been really good.  

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We dont do a good job isolating guys in space either. Theres always lots of traffic in Howells throwing lanes.

 

There are definitely some scheme issues but also our OLs inability to hold up for very long holds us back. But our WRs also need to win 1 on 1 matchups in man coverage more when other teams are all out blitzing. 

I don't know about that. Even against Seattle, we had quite a few guys running scott free.  

 

The challenge with Seattle's defense, though, is they don't do anything which allows them to get out of position.  They run a base defense, and sometimes (about 30% of the time) run a 5 man pressure.  

 

But they basically just say "we're good, you've got to beat us 1:1.  

 

You get guys running wide open (like what happens against our defense all the time) when defenders don't switch off correctly, you blitz and a guy runs into the spot the blitzer came from, or you bust coverages.

 

Seattle doesn't do any of that.  They're WAY better coached, and they play a simple, conservative style of defense.  

 

Against that style of defense, you've got to hit the guys in the open windows consistently.  You'll have guys open all the time, but you're going to have to string 6 or 7 plays together.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Turner had relatively good spacing. But there were times (and it seemed once or twice a game) where receivers were on top of each other. It feels more frequent now.

I wonder how much of that is receivers new to the scheme and running wrong routes.

 

This is a notoriously wordy WCO system.  I would be willing to bet all the money in my left front pocket Terry ran the wrong route on the TD Dotson caught last week.  

 

The Reid offense is also predicated on spacing.  But the offense is new to the receivers, and I wonder how much is design and how much of it is booboo.

 

I'm on record that I don't think EB is a total idiot.  I think he understands spacing and route combinations.  I think there might be some of both, but honestly, I lean towards execution blunders.  That might be "on brand" for me defending EB.  I might be wrong, also.  But it's a new, very complex, very wordy offense.  And with that you're going to have some execution flaws.  

[KDawg]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wonder how much of that is receivers new to the scheme and running wrong routes.

 

This is a notoriously wordy WCO system.  I would be willing to bet all the money in my left front pocket Terry ran the wrong route on the TD Dotson caught last week.  

 

The Reid offense is also predicated on spacing.  But the offense is new to the receivers, and I wonder how much is design and how much of it is booboo.

 

I'm on record that I don't think EB is a total idiot.  I think he understands spacing and route combinations.  I think there might be some of both, but honestly, I lean towards execution blunders.  That might be "on brand" for me defending EB.  I might be wrong, also.  But it's a new, very complex, very wordy offense.  And with that you're going to have some execution flaws.  

 

I said the same in another reply above the one you quoted.

[Thinking Skins]

6 hours ago, Conn said:

This OL configuration is absolutely noticeably better. But even more importantly, the playcalling is more tailored to hiding our weaknesses (over the last month especually) by utilizing more screens and quick passing concepts with hot outlets for Howell. That wasn’t happening hardly ever over the first month+ of the season. Howell has also improved, yes. So has the OL we’re starting now and most noticeably to me, the playcalling. 

I go back and forth on that. Leonard Williams who is a prime example of someone who went up against the line before and after the changes was able to get through both times. I do think Larsen is better at calling out blitzes but I think that after 11 games Howell is better at the scramble drill. He said so today in his press conference. Not in those words, but he was saying that he has always been confident in his arm but now he's a more confident player. 

 

Also. 

On if he's gotten more comfortable with drive progressions:
"I think I've definitely grown in that area. I think it's something that EB and [Quarterbacks Coach] Tavita [Pritchard] have talked about a lot is just extending plays, keeping my eyes downfield and being able to sometimes stay in the pocket, getting to the backside of my progression or if I do have to get out of the pocket, keep my eyes downfield and try to make a play. I think our guys do a really good job on the scramble drill and those type of broken-down plays. The O-Line's doing a really good job right now as well. It's allowing me to get back to the fourth and fifth reads of my progression. So, I think I've definitely grown in that area and it's just something that's worked for us so we're going to try to keep doing it."

 

There he is throwing praise to the OL and you see EB and the coaches get some credit but his growth as a player comes in here where he would try to take off and run or just stand there and look like a sitting duck waiting to get sacked. Now he's sliding around, away from pressure. The line is helping and he said in an earlier answer that people like BRob are helping too but these things are working well now, but its not like Paul and Larson are suddenly world beaters. 

[Thinking Skins]

One thing about the game (and I'm at work listening to the QB school analysis of Howell's performance) is that he's not as positive on Howell as I thought he'd be. Appareantly there are a lot of opportunities that he missed, and its not like its not showing up in film and to be reviewed and stuff that Howell can complete. So its a question of why not. Its not like he didn't make some great plays (the plays to BRob and Gibson) but he starts off with a missed deep ball to I think Dotson and another missed fade to Terry that he missed. He really criticizes the pump fake on that fade route that because there is nobody to fake out. 

 

[Warhead36]

There are definitely open guys he's missing, either because he doesn't see them or he misfires completely. But such is the growth of a young QB. He's also making some incredible throws.

 

Its all about more reps so he gets more comfort and experience trusting his reads. He's nowhere close to a finished product, but the fact that he's already showing this much progression is reason for optimism.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There are definitely open guys he's missing, either because he doesn't see them or he misfires completely. But such is the growth of a young QB. He's also making some incredible throws.

 

Its all about more reps so he gets more comfort and experience trusting his reads. He's nowhere close to a finished product, but the fact that he's already showing this much progression is reason for optimism.

Well I wanted to point it out because EB haters like to act like the offense is all Sam and no EB. And I feel like this is a student and teacher relationship where EB is teaching an offense and fundamentals and has to live through mistakes that Sam and the players make. So this includes the first 30 or so sacks, but they are making mistakes but its not always the same mistake (sometimes its Sam holding the ball too long, sometimes its him leaving the pocket and running into the rusher, sometimes its just scrambling and not being able to avoid a sack, sometimes its just holding the ball too long and not avoiding a sack, sometimes its not looking for the checkdowns, Sometimes its Leno getting beat, sometimes its Wiley, sometimes its Paul or Larson or Charles or Cosmi. 

 

Should the first thing be to bench Sam because he wasn't seeing the checkdowns as Brian Mitchell and Lynell Willingham were talking about so many weeks back? Should Charles or and OL have been benched for the QB holding the ball too long? EB is being critized for this development but he is a teacher and he is making sure to teach them thats what i like right now and he's positive. Even his former players, heck Brad Johnson was just on and talked about his leadership and how great it was. 

 

I'm more excited about this team than I was about the 2012 team. 

[Warhead36]

I feel like we're close to an offensive explosion. Opportunities are there and we have a QB that can hit them and an OC that is aggressive enough. Could be this week against a Giants defense that'll be missing a lot of guys and likes to blitz a lot(leaving opportunities for big plays).

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I feel like we're close to an offensive explosion. Opportunities are there and we have a QB that can hit them and an OC that is aggressive enough. Could be this week against a Giants defense that'll be missing a lot of guys and likes to blitz a lot(leaving opportunities for big plays).

Thing is, we're having the offensive explosions we've wanted all year. 

We have 8 TD passes of 20+ yards this year. 1 of 50+ yards

8 different recievers have caught TD passes

 

We had 9 TD of 20+ yards all last year and 1 of 50 + yards (3 of 49 + yards)