Next Day Thread: Geno Way! We got Hawked.

[Warhead36]

We can't really fix the OL mid season. It needs a massive infusion of talent, particularly young athletic talent. The change in strategy to a more quick pass scheme helps though.

[Chris 44]

20 minutes ago, London Kev said:

General thoughts and waffle from across the pond.

 

The O-line has been playing better lately, but they are still bad and need at least two additions to even get to an acceptable level.

 

Because of the O-line limitations we are definitely throwiing quicker, shorter passes and this has resulted in the WRs not having time to get open. I think that WR play has also dropped in quality recently, yes, even Terry (and I never thought that I would ever say that).

I like that we are throwing more to the RBs. Logan Thomas looks healthy again but does he ever get any YAC?

 

Limiting ourselves to five rushes for ten yards (2.0 YPC) in the first half is totally unacceptable. We did finally start running again in the second half and got 58 yards on nine carries (6.4 YPC). I'm on the fence regarding Bieniemy, but he calls far too many passes for my liking.

 

I understand why we traded Sweat and Young but to say we haven't missed them is not true IMO. One sack and one TFL by the D-line in the last two games is poor. LB play continues to struggle and I don't think that our DBs are playing up to their talent level. Is this a coaching issue? probably.

I really like St-Juste but I wish he would stop flexing after every tackle like he just scored a game winning pick-six.

 

I don't know why we haven't replaced Cheeseman already. His bad snaps are going to cost us a game. Luckily Way has got great hands.

 

I'm totally out on Paddleboat Ron and Jack Del Taco. I couldn't care less if they were both sacked today or after our shiny new GM has fully assessed the situation, but I have no doubt that they are both out of here.

 

We could have won yesterday but as a team we lack consistency. There's always one missed block, one missed tackle, one false start, one bad snap, one bad throw or one dropped catch, and they all add up.

We're just not good enough to overcome these constant mistakes, (or maybe it's these constant mistakes that makes us not good enough?).

I guess that's what seperates good teams from bad teams.

 

Speaking about bad teams; at least we ain't the giants, lol.

Ive said this before, but as bad as the individual pieces on the OL may be, I think OL coach is a priority going forward.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

Do you think this is correctable this season with coaching or player rotations, or are you talking more about correcting it with future draft picks (or FA acquisitions/coaching changes) that arent on the team yet?

 

I feel like I agree with your code red status, but I also dont think it will take much to improve the unit.  Ron makes it seem way harder than it is even though I will give him credit for the Cosmi pick. Would like to see more from Stromberg as we cant say anything definitive about him yet with only 20 or so snaps this season, so not sure if this team will be involved in the center market this upcoming offseason.

 

I would not be mad if this team moved up or down for the best or 2nd best left tackle in the upcoming draft. I also wouldnt be mad if they drafted more than one at the T position as I see Wylie as the worst player, unless the plan is to move Cosmi back outside and target interior linemen. 

 

How do you see this getting corrected?

High draft selection. Wylie as depth vs. starter. Improvement at LG, likely in the form of FA or draft choice.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[-9-]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I want an independent GM independently picking picking a top HC.

We haven't done that since ...

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

46 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Shanahan hadn't interviewed for a dozen Head Coaching jobs before getting the job in SF, that I am aware of. Shanny is also 12 years younger than Bieniemy, so the comparison doesn't really fit. (He also was in Cleveland for a year and smartly bolted when they drafter Manziel).

 

Something @Voice_of_Reason said that made sense at the time, but got me thinking more. We were discussing why we aren't getting the ball more to our WRs--and there are a variety of reasons, not solely Bieniemy's fault. But his contention was that defenses are taking away or WRs. Fair. But why are we not counter punching? Why are we not scheming our receivers open like many other teams? It took him half a season to adjust and make changes to the OL that has lead to Howell's surging lately. Gates was awful at C. They put Larsen and Paul in and the protection was much better. Sure, he gets credit for that, but why did it take so long? He seems very slow to adapt and adjust. If our Head Coach didn't resemble Abe Simpson at this point, I'd be fine with him as OC, but man, I have seen nothing that screams he's our next Head Coach.

 

So he's applying Ron's roster building approach?

So EB's system vs Kyle's are apple's and oranges. but what EB does as far as scheming guys open is like playing chess. Its not about getting Terry open. This is not the Heinike system. Terry and Dotson are the Queens of the system and Logan is a knight, BRob and Gibson are the bishops. we go into each game deciding which piece has the advantage and go there. Yesterday it was the bishops so we went there, and went back there for almost 200 yards. 

 

Other games people say that EB doesn't get WRs open, but they get open and drop the ball (looking at you Dotson and Brown). That's not on EB thats on them. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So EB's system vs Kyle's are apple's and oranges. but what EB does as far as scheming guys open is like playing chess. Its not about getting Terry open. This is not the Heinike system. Terry and Dotson are the Queens of the system and Logan is a knight, BRob and Gibson are the bishops. we go into each game deciding which piece has the advantage and go there. Yesterday it was the bishops so we went there, and went back there for almost 200 yards. 

 

Other games people say that EB doesn't get WRs open, but they get open and drop the ball (looking at you Dotson and Brown). That's not on EB thats on them. 

 

I don't know how much credit I'd give EB for two broken plays. But you're arguing him as OC. He's fine as an OC. I do not want him as an HC.

[RandyHolt]

Harris "doing it right" would have **** canned Ron and JDR and their children as soon as he bought the team. It was too late and it would have tanked the season? I call bull**** but good. EBs offense would still be in place and defense is our problem. Regardless, I think a lot here openly subscribe to losing for the added benefits on draft day. Tank Dell Away.

 

They are Dan Synders coaches. Anything related to him is now toxic. I'd want them no where near Harris's top assets. While Ron has respect for all he has endured, JDR gets no such luxury. I still contend his players hate him and HAVE to hate his coaching and schemes. Harris watching his defense get abused and not a single coaching cut is punting. Which is what axing the coaches on day 1 would appear to many. Sure its a unique situation but don't over think it. A DC can be fired at any point and the downside is nil with our record setting D.

Edited November 13, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I don't know how much credit I'd give EB for two broken plays. But you're arguing him as OC. He's fine as an OC. I do not want him as an HC.

I'm for him as a HC as I like him as an OC and think his type would be a good change of pace from Ron. 

[illone]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

High draft selection. Wylie as depth vs. starter. Improvement at LG, likely in the form of FA or draft choice.

 

 

so basically we are doomed this season... I was hoping you would give me a little more hope for this season as I think Sam deserves to make the playoffs the way he is playing.

 

[KDawg]

Just now, illone said:

 

 

so basically we are doomed this season... I was hoping you would give me a little more hope for this season as I think Sam deserves to make the playoffs the way he is playing.

 

We’re okay as long as we stick to quick passes. But our run game isn’t looking great and long developing pass plays are non existent mostly due to line issues. They can’t sustain.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Harris "doing it right" would have **** canned Ron and JDR and their children as soon as he bought the team. It was too late and it would have tanked the season? I call bull**** but good. I think a lot here openly subscribe to losing for the added benefits on draft day. 

 

That sounds good, but something tells me the new owner swooping in and immediately firing Ron and the gang, scrambling to put together a full staff in July, would go over like a terd in the punch bowl with the players, everyone who works at the park and the media would have a field day skewering him from jump street.  

I understand the desire to never see or hear from Ron ever again, but it’s purely fantasy to think he should have been fired the moment the check cleared.

Edited November 13, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Warhead36]

You can't fire a coach a month before training camp. That's just crazy talk.

[illone]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We’re okay as long as we stick to quick passes. But our run game isn’t looking great and long developing pass plays are non existent mostly due to line issues. They can’t sustain.

 

Still almost stole one in Seattle, so at least we can score some points. The run game seemed to come alive a little in the 2nd half, but that was probably more a function of the defense playing the pass and not expecting it as the run block grades for this current unit are tough to look at. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That sounds good, but something tells me the new owner swooping in and immediately firing Ron and the gang, scrambling to put together a full staff in July, would go over like a terd in the punch bowl with the players, everyone who works at the park and the media would have a field day skewering him from jump street.  

I understand the desire to never see or hear from Ron ever again, but it’s purely fantasy to think he should have been fired the moment the check cleared.

 

Yep.  Especially following Darth Vadar (Dan) here.    Also who are you going to attract in August a month before the season?  It would have to be some retread out of the league because no respected upcoming GM or HC is bailing on their current job a month before the season.

 

Harris IMO is doing it the right way.

 

If we want a GM, an in demand GM to take over this team and hire the HC -- you got to do this the patient and right way.

 

I think it was Keim who said this (but i am not 100% sure, maybe it was someone else), other potential HCs-GMs will pay attention to early Harris' actions and you want to come off like a dude who isn't high strung-rash.  You want to come off like someone who is good to work with.

 

So while I understand the anger at Ron and his coaching staff, its better to let this play out for most of the season.  Canning him with 2-3 weeks to go is fine but who would you replace him with?

 

A.  Best shot at a clean break from Ron and this regime where there is less of a chance of a spin off 

B.  Makes Harris look more appetizing to future GMs and HCs.

C.  Most importantly IMO, it gives you the best shot to do this like a real winning team does it.  Hiring a top GM and let them control the process

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Also keeping Rivera for a year allows you and your future GM/Coach to get a more clear picture of how good or bad the roster is. If you replace him everything will be such a clusterf that you'll really have no idea.

 

At least now we know for sure that Howell appears to be a player, the OL and defense suck, etc. etc.

[MartinC]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 PFF grades are not the be all and end all, but these pass blocking grades are brutal.

 

"Chris Paul - 44.3 (Run), 36.8 (Pass) Sam Cosmi - 75.2 (Run), 27.2 (Pass) Tyler Larsen - 61.6 (Run), 23.7 (Pass)"

[El Mexican]

59 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So EB's system vs Kyle's are apple's and oranges. but what EB does as far as scheming guys open is like playing chess. Its not about getting Terry open. This is not the Heinike system. Terry and Dotson are the Queens of the system and Logan is a knight, BRob and Gibson are the bishops. we go into each game deciding which piece has the advantage and go there. Yesterday it was the bishops so we went there, and went back there for almost 200 yards. 

 

Other games people say that EB doesn't get WRs open, but they get open and drop the ball (looking at you Dotson and Brown). That's not on EB thats on them. 

 

Ok, but who's the tower?

[MartinC]

49 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

so basically we are doomed this season... I was hoping you would give me a little more hope for this season as I think Sam deserves to make the playoffs the way he is playing.

 

 

We are not making the playoffs. This defense does not give us any shot at that.

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

So EB's system vs Kyle's are apple's and oranges. but what EB does as far as scheming guys open is like playing chess. Its not about getting Terry open. This is not the Heinike system. Terry and Dotson are the Queens of the system and Logan is a knight, BRob and Gibson are the bishops. we go into each game deciding which piece has the advantage and go there. Yesterday it was the bishops so we went there, and went back there for almost 200 yards. 

 

Other games people say that EB doesn't get WRs open, but they get open and drop the ball (looking at you Dotson and Brown). That's not on EB thats on them. 

 

Some of the spacing and route combos are weird though. I do think some of that could use some tweaking, especially against man.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

 PFF grades are not the be all and end all, but these pass blocking grades are brutal.

 

"Chris Paul - 44.3 (Run), 36.8 (Pass) Sam Cosmi - 75.2 (Run), 27.2 (Pass) Tyler Larsen - 61.6 (Run), 23.7 (Pass)"

They came in worse than I expected.  Yet most of the season they’ve graded them much better than expected.  I have zero faith in their ability to assess OL play.

 

That said, the eye test made it very clear that the middle of the line we saw improved play from in weeks prior, took a few steps back yesterday.

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They came in worse than I expected.  Yet most of the season they’ve graded them much better than expected.  I have zero faith in their ability to assess OL play.

 

That said, the eye test made it very clear that the middle of the line we saw improved play from in weeks prior, took a few steps back yesterday.

 

Yeah I dont put that much faith in the grades - but they are directional. We seemed to have a lot of trouble passing off stunts yesterday.

[justice98]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I don't know how much credit I'd give EB for two broken plays. But you're arguing him as OC. He's fine as an OC. I do not want him as an HC.

 

I dont know, being first in passing attempts and effectively last in rushing attempts wouldn't fly as a good trait for any other OC.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Yeah I dont put that much faith in the grades - but they are directional. We seemed to have a lot of trouble passing off stunts yesterday.

Catastrophic failure in that regard.

[illone]

24 minutes ago, MartinC said:

We are not making the playoffs. This defense does not give us any shot at that.

 

 

I keep thinking the defense is going to improve later in the year like they did the past two seasons.

 

However, last year by this time the defense was playing much better than they are right now, so...

 

Still waiting... 😐