2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Yea some people don’t understand big picture.

 

remember the chaos of the football world when the giants traded obj. Not saying it got them much further along, but it was the correct move. **** Mara.

 

Big time.  That was a great trade for them.  SF got a haul for Buckner.  Denver got a haul for Chubb.  Chiefs got a ransom for Tyreek Hill and now are loaded with picks where they can get cheap talent.

 

This team under Dan is all about the present.  I'll give them that they don't mortgage the future like the Vinny era and some of the Bruce era anymore but they aren't aggressive either in setting themselves up for the kill for the future.

 

As the Finlay podcast crew like to say -- they attack mediocrity aggressively.  What can we do to be 8-8?  I recall one time Bruce in a rare revealing interview responded to this on a question (I think it was a follow up on when he said they were close) and said something to the effect of they are indeed hovering around 500 but its not a bad place to be because all you got to do is make the playoffs and then get hot in the playoffs and then you are in the SB.

 

The philosophy seems to be don't take a step back for any reason because you can hit lightening in a bottle at any time.   But I've hated that approach for eons.  It clearly doesn't work.   Yeah you can be 9-7 like the Giants were and win a SB.  But that's now how it typically works.

 

Heck we don't even do the most easy basic way to build for the future which the Eagles do it seems almost every year which is to trade down to get picks next year.  Again we do that the medium way when we do it -- which is we add picks in the same draft.  And while I like adding picks in the same draft -- the more aggressive way to add draft capital is to add picks next year, not the current year. 

 

Teams overpay when they give up next years picks.   We only did this from what I recall one draft which was Scot McCloughan's last draft here -- he added 3 mid-late rounders for the following draft by trading down in that draft.

 

But again the vibe I get from reading about Josh Harris -- is that time will be changing for the better on this front.  I get a lot of Howie Roseman vibes as to what he likes.  And he is willing reputation wise for the teaam to take a step back to take two steps forward.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

I am still hoping to hear at least one or two of these guys were excused from yesterday.

 

Chase was put on notice when the team didn't pick up his 5th year option. He should be chomping at the bit to prove himself

[Koolblue13]

I doubt any of those three are back next year any way. To echo sip, the trade value of our diva ends "should" be at their highest midseason.

 

It's a lost year and I'd much rather see what we have in the back up guys.

 

The three of them should all become 3/4 rounders at worst. Fuller should be up there too.

 

I'm going to assume that we may be out of a few 1rst rounders over the next few years if we go up for a QB, so those mid rounders are important. It's where you build a team.

 

I'd also like to not see the Buckner trade used as a model trade. They got a couple picks, then used #11 to draft Kinlaw who's a 300lbs bust. That defense hasn't been as good since that trade.

[XxSpearheadxX]

15 hours ago, CobraCommander said:

Chase Young has never been a Team Leader. Cheerleader maybe. Buts that’s a different job title and the requirements aren’t the same.

He ain't no Terry Mclaurin thats for sure. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think Rivera trades either. He is all in on the defense to carry the team and create turnovers. He sees the potential and draft status of Young, and he is tied to him. So, he won't get rid of him. He won't get rid of Sweat, either. Because: All in on defense (except for linebacker). 

 

I'd be shocked if we traded either of them, though I would have already done it. 

He also has little incentive to do so if he’s gone in 2024 and doesn’t get to cash in on the extra draft picks generated, for example.

 

Might get interesting if the players hold out though.

[Conn]

welcome to the league, rook 

[NoVaSkins21]

Forbes is going to get quite the workout going against Terry and Jahan.  

[CobraCommander]

Just now, NoVaSkins21 said:

Forbes is going to get quite the workout going against Terry and Jahan.  

Which is good because he is going to have to go up some really good receivers this year. Hell the first three weeks we see Deandre Hopkins, Jerry Jeudy and Stefon Diggs.

[samy316]

I would trade both Sweat & Young.  You need to be proactive in situations like this.  If we were to keep one of them, I would rather try to re-sign Sweat.  One of the posters brought up a good point earlier, in that this current regime has no incentive to want to trade assets, since they most likely won't be around to handle how to scout and draft future players in 2024 and beyond.  The need to "win immediately" is too great for them to be thinking about future draft picks.  That's the unfortunate situation we're in now.  It's a wait and see game with Sweat & Young.

[NoVaSkins21]

So tired of hearing about Chase.  Whatever will happen will happen with him.  Just want to focus on the guy that are there right now.  Heard good things about EB cursing at payers.  We're getting a taste of the type of guy with he was with the players in KC.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think everyone here is missing the forest for the trees. 
 

The story of OTAs isn’t Chase Young.

 

It’s Sam Howell. All this talk about trading up for a QB next year is gonna look silly in about six months. 

If Chase walks, he walks. 

[MartinC]

47 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Which is good because he is going to have to go up some really good receivers this year. Hell the first three weeks we see Deandre Hopkins, Jerry Jeudy and Stefon Diggs.

Hopkins probably wont be a Cardinal by the time we play them. He is positioning for a trade ad the Cards seem willing to deal - they have reportedly given him permission to seek a trade. They seem to be in a 'tear it down to rebuild it' mode. Murray wont be fit to play for the first few weeks either so we likely see Colt McCoy starting for them opening day.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I think everyone here is missing the forest for the trees. 
 

The story of OTAs isn’t Chase Young.

 

It’s Sam Howell. All this talk about trading up for a QB next year is gonna look silly in about six months. 

If Chase walks, he walks. 

I mentioned Howell. Keep up

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

I'd also like to not see the Buckner trade used as a model trade. They got a couple picks, then used #11 to draft Kinlaw who's a 300lbs bust. That defense hasn't been as good since that trade.

 

I hear you but what SF did with the actual pick didn't negate the value of getting a first round pick when they didn't want to pay mega money for 4 D lineman.  

 

 

On anotherr note, so it looks like Armani Rogers is out for the year.  As I mentioned before the young TEs couldn't stay healthy in year 1 -- its a position of attrition typically.  And we skipped one of the best TE drafts in memory.  That's before even diving into Jay Gruden's point that for a team that is stressing running the ball -- this team oddly has only one good blocking TE so he was surpised they skipped TE.

 

But I'll stopping whining.    And try to stay positive about this season.  

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

We aren't getting the haul the Giants got for OBJ or the 49ers got for Buckner if we were to trade Sweat or Young. It would be terrible RoI if we traded either. I could MAYBE see a future 2nd for Sweat but that's it.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Really wish we could have gotten a TE from this stacked draft class.

 

Its gonna be a dead position for us again this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We aren't getting the haul the Giants got for OBJ or the 49ers got for Buckner if we were to trade Sweat or Young. It would be terrible RoI if we traded either. I could MAYBE see a future 2nd for Sweat but that's it.

 

 

The problem in both cases among others is they are headed to contract years.  It's better value wise to trade them a season before that for when they are on the brink.  And in Chase's case obviously he needs to show he can still play.

 

the third round comp stuff is loserville though for good assets.  It's basically a 4th round pick for starters -- dead bottom of the third round.   And you have to wait an extra year to get it to boot.

 

Even if its "just" a 2nd round pick.  It's better than the way they typically roll. 

 

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Really wish we could have gotten a TE from this stacked draft class.

 

Its gonna be a dead position for us again this year.

 

 

It Bates gets hurt, they'd have no good blocking TEs for a team that supposedly wants to stress better blocking both in the run game and pass protection.

 

Cole Turner was one of my favorite players before the previous draft.  Really good catch radius-receiver.  But he's a not a blocker and his lanky frame makes me think he will be prone for injuries like he was last season.

 

Logan Thomas is going to be 32 and wasn't hot that season.  Hodges UDFA is a bit raw.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think Rivera trades either. He is all in on the defense to carry the team and create turnovers. He sees the potential and draft status of Young, and he is tied to him. So, he won't get rid of him. He won't get rid of Sweat, either. Because: All in on defense (except for linebacker). 

 

I'd be shocked if we traded either of them, though I would have already done it. 

I doubt Young has much of a trade value right now. He needs a ‘prove it’ year - not just for the Commanders but the rest of the league if he hits free agency. If I was him I’d be at OTAs not just to show the Commanders I’m committed to being the best I can be, but every other franchise as well. He’s got multi millions of dollars riding on what happens this season - do the work!

[CobraCommander]

33 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Hopkins probably wont be a Cardinal by the time we play them. He is positioning for a trade ad the Cards seem willing to deal - they have reportedly given him permission to seek a trade. They seem to be in a 'tear it down to rebuild it' mode. Murray wont be fit to play for the first few weeks either so we likely see Colt McCoy starting for them opening day.

Music to my ears. Basically you're saying week 1 is a must win game. 

[jservs7]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

welcome to the league, rook 

 

Terry is gonna make Forbes so much better. As long as one of Forbes' legs don't fall in a pencil sharpener, our defense should see a big improvement. 

[MartinC]

15 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Music to my ears. Basically you're saying week 1 is a must win game. 

It could be a long year if we struggle and lose against the Cards. 

[Simmsy]

I thought you guys would be more concerned about Armani Rodgers, we're kinda screwed at TE now. I was really looking forward to Rodgers this year, he had the best chance on our team to breakout as a stellar TE.

[HigSkin]

 

[Conn]

 

4 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I thought you guys would be more concerned about Armani Rodgers, we're kinda screwed at TE now. I was really looking forward to Rodgers this year, he had the best chance on our team to breakout as a stellar TE.

I still like Turner as a guy who could blossom, he started the offseason looking like a natural before he got hurt and his progress was delayed. By the time he was healthy it was too late for him to be getting practice reps. Offseason is where these lotto ticket guys get enough reps to actually improve and make an impression. 
 

Agree that losing Armani sucks. Another indictment on the decision to skip this TE class.